The best word in politics is "Justice"

[hal2kilo]

That is probably the most intelligent thing I've ever seen in ATP&N (can't believe I read the whole thing). Just don't follow it up with love for Hugo Chavez, or a blanket statement that all Republicans are inherently evil and must be stopped, k?

It'll soak in over time, as you agree change is slow for us dimwitted conservatives

Remember that with change, every single time it seems justice is always "take from the white male Christian and spread it to everyone else" even though that white male Christian who was born just 30 years ago had *nothing* to do with the relocation of Native Americans, nothing to do with the capturing of lands that were previously Mexico's, nothing to do with slavery, nothing to do with women's suffrage, nothing to do with gays in the military, etc.

That is the one viewpoint that you constantly dismiss in *all* your positions, and it gets tiresome. Isn't one of your overall messages to strive to understand other people? Except that you yourself have pre-judged groups based on your own personal views of who is privileged and who is not, and ignore individuals within those groups, only looking at groups on the whole.

Yea, I follow you on the Chavez thing. Other than that, and a little more humility, I generally agree with Craig.

 

[werepossum]

Justice is subjective.

Utter Rubbish. Even monkeys recognize justice. You are less than an ape in understanding.

Monkeys recognize monkey justice. Monkeys would not recognize Craig justice, where a group of monkeys wielding clubs (which would not be allowed to any monkey not a recognized enforcer of the Progressive Monkey Party) take fruit from the monkeys that gathered it to redistribute it to monkeys who could not be bothered to gather their own based on the PMP's views on past monkey injustices and an ideal society's fruit distribution. Only with human enlightenment does "justice" mean one thing for some and quite another thing for others. Only with human enlightenment does "justice" become a power base. Anarchist and Zebo are right; as long as justice must be administered and enforced by man, justice will remain subjective.

 

[Moonbeam]

Monkeys recognize monkey justice. Monkeys would not recognize Craig justice, where a group of monkeys wielding clubs (which would not be allowed to any monkey not a recognized enforcer of the Progressive Monkey Party) take fruit from the monkeys that gathered it to redistribute it to monkeys who could not be bothered to gather their own based on the PMP's views on past monkey injustices and an ideal society's fruit distribution. Only with human enlightenment does "justice" mean one thing for some and quite another thing for others. Only with human enlightenment does "justice" become a power base. Anarchist and Zebo are right; as long as justice must be administered and enforced by man, justice will remain subjective.

Consider the organ grinder monkey. He turns a crank and a preprogrammed song is played. You are just such a monkey, regurgitating a lifetime of accumulated garbage you think is a melody. Try to get yourself deprogrammed. All the shit you threw means nothing to me. I am a progressive and everything you said about progressives is total rot to me.

Human beings are social animals. I think this is a fact. Social animals depend on each other for survival. I think this is also true. To insure the survival of others in your group helps to insure your own survival. I think this is logical. Evolution has selected for sharing among social animals like humans. This seems to make evolutionary sense to me. Nobody taught me this. I didn't the it from Rush Limbaugh or read it in a book. I thought it through myself. It makes sense to me whereas what you said sounded like second hand garbage.

So humans are genetically predisposed, in my opinion to share. In a society that is not pressured by natural selection, the cult of self can be born and thrive. You are, in my opinion, simply a freak and an aberration. Progressive think is imminently sound.

 

[werepossum]

Consider the organ grinder monkey. He turns a crank and a preprogrammed song is played. You are just such a monkey, regurgitating a lifetime of accumulated garbage you think is a melody. Try to get yourself deprogrammed. All the shit you threw means nothing to me. I am a progressive and everything you said about progressives is total rot to me.

Human beings are social animals. I think this is a fact. Social animals depend on each other for survival. I think this is also true. To insure the survival of others in your group helps to insure your own survival. I think this is logical. Evolution has selected for sharing among social animals like humans. This seems to make evolutionary sense to me. Nobody taught me this. I didn't the it from Rush Limbaugh or read it in a book. I thought it through myself. It makes sense to me whereas what you said sounded like second hand garbage.

So humans are genetically predisposed, in my opinion to share. In a society that is not pressured by natural selection, the cult of self can be born and thrive. You are, in my opinion, simply a freak and an aberration. Progressive think is imminently sound.

Social animals share and cooperate among their family, pack, or herd. They also compete with other families, packs, and herds. This maximizes resources for one's own family, pack or herd. This also benefits the species, as the most fit (at gathering as well as sharing) have the most offspring. The success of the family, tribe, or herd depends on all able bodies doing their share, thus generating the surplus to protect and feed the sick, the old, the pregnant, the young. By contrast, under progressive ideals the least fit have the most offspring.

By contrast, the progressive model is the insect hive, with a very large number of relatively mindless workers and a very small number of very powerful rulers at the top. By maximizing the number of relatively mindless workers, the ruling elite gain power and wealth. The main difference is that progressives control their relatively mindless workers with slogans and mindless platitudes rather than with pheromones. Well, and the promise of bribes, of course. The progressive model rewards sloth and punishes hard work and ability; it is devolution in action, an affront to G-d as well as to nature. Only a progressive can take something from one person, give it to another person, and feel superior about his own generosity.

 

[Moonbeam]

Social animals share and cooperate among their family, pack, or herd. They also compete with other families, packs, and herds. This maximizes resources for one's own family, pack or herd. This also benefits the species, as the most fit (at gathering as well as sharing) have the most offspring. The success of the family, tribe, or herd depends on all able bodies doing their share, thus generating the surplus to protect and feed the sick, the old, the pregnant, the young. By contrast, under progressive ideals the least fit have the most offspring.

By contrast, the progressive model is the insect hive, with a very large number of relatively mindless workers and a very small number of very powerful rulers at the top. By maximizing the number of relatively mindless workers, the ruling elite gain power and wealth. The main difference is that progressives control their relatively mindless workers with slogans and mindless platitudes rather than with pheromones. Well, and the promise of bribes, of course. The progressive model rewards sloth and punishes hard work and ability; it is devolution in action, an affront to G-d as well as to nature. Only a progressive can take something from one person, give it to another person, and feel superior about his own generosity.

I guess. You regurgitate this like a mindless drone so you should know. I told you that you haven't the faintest idea what a progressive is in my opinion. You just mumble slogans you were trained to spout.

 

[werepossum]

I guess. You regurgitate this like a mindless drone so you should know. I told you that you haven't the faintest idea what a progressive is in my opinion. You just mumble slogans you were trained to spout.

Regurgitate implies that this comparison has been put forth before. (It really does. Go ahead, ask a smart person. I'll wait.) If you can find this comparison put forth by others, I'll give you an explanation of proper forum quoting. I'll even type it slowly for you.

 

[Moonbeam]

Regurgitate implies that this comparison has been put forth before. (It really does. Go ahead, ask a smart person. I'll wait.) If you can find this comparison put forth by others, I'll give you an explanation of proper forum quoting. I'll even type it slowly for you.

Hahahahahaha

Google "the progressive model is the insect hive" I know what regurgitate means.

 

[Zebo]

So humans are genetically predisposed, in my opinion to share.

LOL

No Moon some are some are not. We have names for them today Democrats and Republicans with very different views of sharing and Justice. Again, justice is totally subjective. I'm sure a jihadi is thinking he's the most just man in the world as he buries a rape victim and stones her to death.

Wars have been fought over justice. Both sides feeling their side is just despite being at polar opposites to point of needing a war and millions dying to decide who's interpretation of justice prevails.

Samuel P Huntington sums it up best : The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence.

Your interpretation of justice and sharing is though the cultural prism of the victors eyes - not universal by any means.

 

[Moonbeam]

LOL

I think you are confusing justice and injustice with ego satisfaction and having your ego aggrieved.

Remember that any analysis of human behavior that you care to mentions is an analysis of human beings who are sick with the disease of self hate. An innate sense of justice is easily perverted into a desire to administer it.

When you look at the waves you miss seeing the ocean beneath.

 

[bamacre]

All evil is done in the name of good.

I knew I had seen Zebo's post before. :biggrin:

 

[Greenman]

I'm going to go ahead and guess that no one hear has ever heard of the golden rule?

 

[Cogman]

I'm going to go ahead and guess that no one hear has ever heard of the golden rule?

What if I'm a sadomasochist? Wouldn't the golden rule state that I should cause pain on as many people as possible?

 

[shortylickens]

I'm going to go ahead and guess that no one hear has ever heard of the golden rule?

You've been hear how long?

 

[Zebo]

I'm going to go ahead and guess that no one hear has ever heard of the golden rule?

The golden rule is flawed. They say do unto others... how do you address a man looking for a bar fight? Do you do unto others? Following Golden rule you are required to beat the shit out of him.

Quite simply differing tastes suggests that your values are not shared with others.

http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Paul.Treanor/golden.rule.html

 

[Zebo]

What if I'm a sadomasochist? Wouldn't the golden rule state that I should cause pain on as many people as possible?

Hehe a sadist is just a masochist who follows the golden rule.

 

[Moonbeam]

I knew I had seen Zebo's post before. :biggrin:

There is no conflict between what Zebo is saying and what I say here or earlier elsewhere. I am saying that the real self is the source of real good and the ego the source of evil that egotistical men call good.

His theory of different tastes and the golden rule is correct except that tastes are loves of the sick ego. No real person is looking for a bar fight. That need is a desire to punish others or the self because one has been made to feel worthless. Tastes are both subjective and delusional. They are not real and have no grounding in real being. There there is only love.

The golden rule is be real so that the love that fills the self fills the universe.

 

[werepossum]

Hahahahahaha

Google "the progressive model is the insect hive" I know what regurgitate means.

I did exactly what you said and received exactly two hits. Both were this thread. http://www.google.com/search?q=&#37...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

I tried it again without the quotes and got 153,000 hits, but only three of the first few pages had any relevance to my statement. (Just as a control I Googled the progressive model is the cabbage and received 3,730,000 results.) Two are by the same guy, Joe Sobran, of whom I've never heard. Ditto with the third, Michael Moriarty. There were also two references to the insect hive as a model for all human civilization. It's amazingly apparent to even the meanest intelligence that this is not some conservative meme that I'm regurgitating. So either you are a blatant liar, you are completely wrong, or you are insane. Feel free to choose (D) All of the above if you wish.

 

[piasabird]

Liberals dont know what justice is . . . .

Reward the left and punish the right. That is what justice is.

 

[Craig234]

Liberals dont know what justice is . . . .

Reward the left and punish the right. That is what justice is.

95% of what is said here about liberals is wrong or lies. I can't remember the other 5%.

Maybe I should note the 'wrong' includes idiocy.

 

[Zebo]

There is no conflict between what Zebo is saying and what I say here or earlier elsewhere. I am saying that the real self is the source of real good and the ego the source of evil that egotistical men call good.

His theory of different tastes and the golden rule is correct except that tastes are loves of the sick ego. No real person is looking for a bar fight. That need is a desire to punish others or the self because one has been made to feel worthless. Tastes are both subjective and delusional. They are not real and have no grounding in real being. There there is only love.

The golden rule is be real so that the love that fills the self fills the universe.

I pretty much agree with this. We are all born the same, such happy little children, but wrecked as adults. It's the only way you can explain such differing tastes.

My only point is in the real world and as adults we are very different and have differing views on justice. For example in Egypt 80% think justice is stoning for adultery and there is probably only 1% in USA who would call such a remedy justice. So the whole thread is flawed since justice is 100% subjective or if you prefer indoctrinated upon us.

By the golden rule, I'd have to toss a stone too.

Sorry for replying so late I was banned for a little bit and then forgot about it.

 

[Moonbeam]

I pretty much agree with this. We are all born the same, such happy little children, but wrecked as adults. It's the only way you can explain such differing tastes.

My only point is in the real world and as adults we are very different and have differing views on justice. For example in Egypt 80% think justice is stoning for adultery and there is probably only 1% in USA who would call such a remedy justice. So the whole thread is flawed since justice is 100% subjective or if you prefer indoctrinated upon us.

By the golden rule, I'd have to toss a stone too.

Sorry for replying so late I was banned for a little bit and then forgot about it.

Well, OK, but it easy to forget that this is not the real world. This is the world of delusion. In the world of delusion is is perfectly just to stone a woman for adultery, just so long as somebody without sin casts the first stone voluntarily.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think the important point is that if justice is subjective I am sure that every person who thinks so will also think that his or her notion of justice is the best of all those possible and that they personally are the most highly evolved. If justice is subjective it makes no difference what kind of justice we have, barbarian or highly evolved. Nobody will have any evolving to do. We will have a world of madness, like the one you see around you, where everybody fancies himself perfect. The world will look like P & N, filled with psychotic crack pots, outraged, say, that Obama's an alien.

 

[Brigandier]

If justice is subjective, our world is already lost. I think people confuse punishment with justice too often, and they confuse themselves in the process.

Justice is what every douchenozzle assbag eventually gets, punishment is only given to those who are caught.

 

[Steeplerot]

Liberals dont know what justice is . . . .

Reward the left and punish the right. That is what justice is.

Conservative victim complex much?

 

[Orignal Earl]

Liberals dont know what justice is . . . .

Reward the left and punish the right. That is what justice is.

Them Latter Day Saint commercials on TV sure speak a different message then you do here most of the time.

Great OP Craig.