The Bern endoses Hillary

[MongGrel]

So this is how liberty dies; to thunderous applause.

https://youtu.be/V1FFVWEQnSM

Wow a link to a bad Star Wars movie.

Not impressive.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/artic...lf-and-the-inequities-caused-by-globalization

 

[fskimospy]

Watching good manufacturing jobs change to WalMart or Home Depot jobs during my lifetime I don't agree. More cheaply made foreign crap is not the solution.

Automation is far more responsible for that than anything else and that's only going to increase.

As for foreign products, they are what the US market wants. How does the US benefit from artificially insulating uncompetitive industries? It just makes our economy less efficient and in the long run, poorer. Why are preserving certain people's jobs worth that?

 

[werepossum]

Good for Bernie. He did what he could for his supporters, then did the classy thing.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Automation is far more responsible for that than anything else and that's only going to increase.

As for foreign products, they are what the US market wants. How does the US benefit from artificially insulating uncompetitive industries? It just makes our economy less efficient and in the long run, poorer. Why are preserving certain people's jobs worth that?

I'm too tired to discuss this with you. All I can say is look at the suicide nets in China, look at the corruption in India, look at the sloppy labor practices of where these low priced goods come from.

 

[LegendKiller]

Automation is far more responsible for that than anything else and that's only going to increase.

As for foreign products, they are what the US market wants. How does the US benefit from artificially insulating uncompetitive industries? It just makes our economy less efficient and in the long run, poorer. Why are preserving certain people's jobs worth that?

Automation jobs which could largely have stayed here.

 

[MongGrel]

Automation is far more responsible for that than anything else and that's only going to increase.

As for foreign products, they are what the US market wants. How does the US benefit from artificially insulating uncompetitive industries? It just makes our economy less efficient and in the long run, poorer. Why are preserving certain people's jobs worth that?

Wow, that is a lot of BS right there, to put it bluntly.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Good for Bernie. He did what he could for his supporters, then did the classy thing.

I agree Bernie did the hand-off very, very well. He's even got solid commitment in important goals.

 

[fskimospy]

Automation jobs which could largely have stayed here.

Lots of the automation jobs are here, it's just that a factory which used to employ 1000 people now employs 50 for the same output.

 

[fskimospy]

Want to see what happened to US manufacturing?

Note that the right scale in this chart doesn't center on 0, but the trend is still very clear. We're producing more than ever with fewer jobs. That's not China, that's our own technology.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Want to see what happened to US manufacturing?

Note that the right scale in this chart doesn't center on 0, but the trend is still very clear. We're producing more than ever with fewer jobs. That's not China, that's our own technology.

There's the graph. I predicted it earlier. Come on take time to think about a different opinion don't be like Trump and refuse to reevaluate or be wrong.

 

[fskimospy]

There's the graph. I predicted it earlier. Come on take time to think about a different opinion don't be like Trump and refuse to reevaluate or be wrong.

What's wrong with a graph? Are you saying the numbers are wrong? If you aren't saying the numbers are wrong then how do you explain it? If free trade was stealing all the demand for US goods shouldn't our production have declined?

I would also say that you should not refuse to reevaluate or be wrong.

 

[werepossum]

There's the graph. I predicted it earlier. Come on take time to think about a different opinion don't be like Trump and refuse to reevaluate or be wrong.

Pay no attention to "Made in China" printed on literally everything in stores. Just remember the colorful graph.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

What's wrong with a graph? Are you saying the numbers are wrong? If you aren't saying the numbers are wrong then how do you explain it? If free trade was stealing all the demand for US goods shouldn't our production have declined?

I would also say that you should not refuse to reevaluate or be wrong.

I'm trying to be kind this is just a suggestion, I know in real-life you're a different guy. We both are smart enough to know either one of us can find reports or graphs to prove their point. I feel you have an insistence to be right on everything which makes discussions a complete waste of time.

 

[soulcougher73]

Bad move on his part

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Pay no attention to "Made in China" printed on literally everything in stores. Just remember the colorful graph.

He's an interesting experiment. Try to find a US made consumer grade toaster, commercial ones don't count. Two years ago it was impossible and it was nearly impossible to find one not made in China. After many, many different search methods I ultimately found one made in either England or Spain, I forgot.
I haven't looked in a long time hopefully its changed.

 

[woolfe9998]

I'm trying to be kind this is just a suggestion, I know in real-life you're a different guy. We both are smart enough to know either one of us can find reports or graphs to prove their point. I feel you have an insistence to be right on everything which makes discussions a complete waste of time.

No, what makes a discussion a waste of time is someone who argues from their feelings and is impervious to facts. What you're doing here is engaging in obvious ad hominem, commenting about him and ignoring his argument.

His chart shows declining manufacturing jobs at the same time as increased manufacturing output. This strongly suggests that automation has caused the decline in jobs. If you have a response to his point, please supply it. And if we can always find charts and graphs to prove a point, feel free to find one to prove yours.

 

[Sonikku]

I'm feeling the Bern at the lack of a single liberal candidate to vote for.

 

[1prophet]

Automation is far more responsible for that than anything else and that's only going to increase.

As for foreign products, they are what the US market wants. How does the US benefit from artificially insulating uncompetitive industries? It just makes our economy less efficient and in the long run, poorer. Why are preserving certain people's jobs worth that?

Hey wise guy, you want to go back to a pre Labor laws, EPA, OSHA, unions, etc. time so you can be more competitive, come out and say it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-LLsODnuHI

Just stop pretending to be a liberal that cares about the middle class and the plight of the American worker at the same time.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

No, what makes a discussion a waste of time is someone who argues from their feelings and is impervious to facts. What you're doing here is engaging in obvious ad hominem, commenting about him and ignoring his argument.

His chart shows declining manufacturing jobs at the same time as increased manufacturing output. This strongly suggests that automation has caused the decline in jobs. If you have a response to his point, please supply it. And if we can always find charts and graphs to prove a point, feel free to find one to prove yours.

Or I can say nobody who is pro TPP has presented any hard evidence of what approval will do for me and exactly what will be changed if it doesn't thus why make a change.

 

[werepossum]

I'm feeling the Bern at the lack of a single liberal candidate to vote for.

? Hillary is extremely liberal, just in an authoritarian, progressive, elitist, crush personal liberty/cult of the individual sort of way. Jill Stein is at least as liberal and much better on individual liberty as well as much more liberal with individual handouts versus corporate handouts. Gary Johnson is very liberal on personal liberty and corporate liberty, if not on Uncle Sugar handouts for anyone. Donald Trump is fairly liberal on personal liberty and very liberal on corporate liberty, if not on Uncle Sugar handouts for individuals. (The jury's still out on Trump re corporate Sugar.)

Seems to me that you have a lot of different liberal flavors from which to choose.

 

[woolfe9998]

Or I can say nobody who is pro TPP has presented any hard evidence of what approval will do for me and exactly what will be changed if it doesn't thus why make a change.

Nice way to set the bar so high it's impossible to pass. Obviously no one can say what a trade deal will do for YOU. We don't even know what occupation you're in. And even if we did, predicting the effect of a trade deal on one person is nigh impossible.

 

[Genx87]

Hillary is against TPP, like Bernie. I am mainly just against the arbitration superseding national jurisprudence.

I don't expect her to dislike it now she has the nomination. Clinton is a warmonger, a liar, but she understand economics unlike the Bern.

 

[Genx87]

Automation is far more responsible for that than anything else and that's only going to increase.

As for foreign products, they are what the US market wants. How does the US benefit from artificially insulating uncompetitive industries? It just makes our economy less efficient and in the long run, poorer. Why are preserving certain people's jobs worth that?

Bu bu dem brown people are taking our jerbs! This swing to economic nationalism by Trump and Bernie and their acceptance by a sizeable portion of our population is quite terrifying to me.

 

[Genx87]

I'm trying to be kind this is just a suggestion, I know in real-life you're a different guy. We both are smart enough to know either one of us can find reports or graphs to prove their point. I feel you have an insistence to be right on everything which makes discussions a complete waste of time.

Then by all means produce us a graph that shows the benefit of building an economic wall around the country and driving up the cost of everything.

 

[dullard]

It never ceases to amaze me how much people seem to care about TPP considering how little effect it will have on our country overall. I doubt any of you would even notice if it passed or not.

It seems to be more of a reflexive anti-trade attitude which is a long term losing proposition that makes everyone poorer.

Exactly. The TPP is partially a trade agreement, but it has very little to do with trade. It is much more a normalization of Western business practices than anything.

For example, tariffs are dropped, but we already have free trade with Canada, Mexico, Australia, Singapore, Chile, and Peru (half of the countries in the TPP). So, with these big countries already having free trade, there is no significant difference. Are we that worried that we'll be flooded with cheap gasoline and diamonds from Brunei or of goat/sheep meat from New Zealand?

No, this is a proxy fight. People who are anti-trade are against it just because it has a partial trade component. But they usually don't actually realize what the TPP is about.