The AT World of Warcraft Thread (Where do you play) and general BS

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: nanobreath
I have no disillusionment that blizz can achieve perfect class balance. This is only possible one way, make everybody EXACTLY the same. Blizz will never make everybody Exactly the same (God, I at least hope not). Thus there will always be a difference, and people will have the ability to min/max.

This then leads to the current problem that blizz is creating. They are trying to balance out all the classes to make them all viable in a raid. They want it to be so that you don't take one class over another simply because of an ability, they want it to be because you want to take that person. In order to do so they are taking UNIQUE class abilities and giving them to other classes. Certain buffs/debuffs that DEFINED a class are now available to multiple classes. Meanwhile, nerfing or removing the same or other abilities from classes. This is changing the entire balance and playstyle of the game.

We now have completely changed playstyles and mechanics in order to achieve perfect balance, except perfect balance is impossible! What's the point of screwing everything up if it does not achieve the affect you were attempting? THIS IS MY PROBLEM! I want to play the class I created because that was the playstyle I liked playing.

Maybe they will still get the balance thing close enough to where it at least fixes that part of raiding, but I still dont' like losing things that I liked about the game.

If any of my knowledge of new stuff is wrong, or if my logic in how things will occur is wrong, please correct me. I would LOVE for my favorite class to not be screwed to high heaven.

I think the answer is that Blizz is also well aware that perfect class balance will never be realized and it is not desired for the exact reasons you describe. So instead, Blizz concerns themselves with what truly makes the game the most fun for the most people. In that sense, they are not really screwing everything up. They are just changing things and they are changing them a lot. This will remove some problems and I am quite certain that it will leave new ones in the wake. The question at the end of the day is whether or not it will make the game more fun for the majority of people or not.

Considering the massive amount of changes taking place, I don't think anyone has any clue. The best we have to go on is our experiences in beta or the reading of those experiences if you are not a part of beta. However, considering that beta is changing so much constantly, it is only fair to say that none of that experience means much when it comes to the retail version being released in Nov. That plus the majority of their player base (the silent majority) is either not playing beta or not talking about it so who knows what the true majority opinion really is?

 

[exdeath]

Welcome to World of Communist Warcraft.

Where someone who's never played a game other than solitaire can be just as good as a skilled Sunwell raider by one button clicking with any class the very first day.

WotLK will likely be ending my stay with WoW. It's turning into a care bare game that punishes skilled players for being creative and resourceful and rewarding 13 yr olds with level 15 twinks with Sunwell epics.

They want to take away all the carefully devised tricks and talents that separate skilled players from newbies so that everyone can just one button click their way to Arthas. It's the equivilent of giving everybody in a FPS an aim bot and rail gun and disabling their mouse and keyboard. And with the now diminished accomplishment of raiding and being good at your class and achieving progression, that is all being replaced by an achievement system (person with the most rune cloth!!! oh joy!)

All that's left for fulfilling their Marxist revolution is the elimination of all classes and just having one single universal class that can do everything.

And I say this being a Sunwell paladin (paladin is the most disadvantaged healer in sunwell) who enjoys being able to keep up with resto shamans and CoH priests even though its 10 times more effort. Learn to play your #*$#$ class and quit whining how OP everyone else is.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: exdeath
Welcome to World of Communist Warcraft.

Where someone who's never played a game other than solitaire can be just as good as a skilled Sunwell raider by one button clicking with any class the very first day.

WotLK will likely be ending my stay with WoW. It's turning into a care bare game that punishes skilled players for being creative and resourceful and rewarding 13 yr olds with level 15 twinks with Sunwell epics.

They want to take away all the carefully devised tricks and talents that separate skilled players from newbies so that everyone can just one button click their way to Arthas. It's the equivilent of giving everybody in a FPS an aim bot and rail gun and disabling their mouse and keyboard.

All that's left for fulfilling their Marxist revolution is the elimination of all classes and just having one single universal class that can do everything.

And I say this being a Sunwell paladin who enjoys being able to keep up with resto shamans and CoH priests even though its 10 times more effort. Learn to play your #*$#$ class and quit whining how OP everyone else is.

:laugh: but i agree with

 

[rh71]

Blizz does not want to reach their development endgame (complete balance) or they'd be out of jobs (or reasons for patches / fresh content).

For them: R E V E N U E.

For us: we like changes & endless patches - does it really need explanation as to why? Just look at all the anticipation despite all the negatives. They're giving most of us a reason not to jump ship (because we don't really want to) - I don't know what more we could ask for.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: rh71
Blizz does not want to reach their development endgame (complete balance) or they'd be out of jobs (or reasons for patches / fresh content).

For them: R E V E N U E.

For us: we like changes & endless patches - does it really need explanation as to why? Just look at all the anticipation despite all the negatives. They're giving most of us a reason not to jump ship (because we don't really want to) - I don't know what more we could ask for.

When you "need a reason not to jump ship" you've already lost interest in the game and it's more labor than fun at that point.

Playing WoW is a trade off between opportunity costs. When the payoff of playing WoW is diminished, the things that were given up to play become more attractive again. That's when you recognize that the game is nothing more than labor and you begin to put a price tag on that labor and ultimately leave the game.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: rh71
Blizz does not want to reach their development endgame (complete balance) or they'd be out of jobs (or reasons for patches / fresh content).

For them: R E V E N U E.

For us: we like changes & endless patches - does it really need explanation as to why? Just look at all the anticipation despite all the negatives. They're giving most of us a reason not to jump ship (because we don't really want to) - I don't know what more we could ask for.

When you "need a reason not to jump ship" you've already lost interest in the game and it's more labor than fun at that point.

MMORPG.

 

[Aikouka]

I think Warlocks are just angry that they have to press about 5 buttons now and actually have a real rotation rather than just spam shadowbolt 😛. They also have to put in a little more effort and pay attention to their pet or potentially lose DPS. God forbid you have to press CTRL+1 or CTRL+2!!

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: exdeath
Welcome to World of Communist Warcraft.

Where someone who's never played a game other than solitaire can be just as good as a skilled Sunwell raider by one button clicking with any class the very first day.

WotLK will likely be ending my stay with WoW. It's turning into a care bare game that punishes skilled players for being creative and resourceful and rewarding 13 yr olds with level 15 twinks with Sunwell epics.

They want to take away all the carefully devised tricks and talents that separate skilled players from newbies so that everyone can just one button click their way to Arthas. It's the equivilent of giving everybody in a FPS an aim bot and rail gun and disabling their mouse and keyboard. And with the now diminished accomplishment of raiding and being good at your class and achieving progression, that is all being replaced by an achievement system (person with the most rune cloth!!! oh joy!)

All that's left for fulfilling their Marxist revolution is the elimination of all classes and just having one single universal class that can do everything.

And I say this being a Sunwell paladin (paladin is the most disadvantaged healer in sunwell) who enjoys being able to keep up with resto shamans and CoH priests even though its 10 times more effort. Learn to play your #*$#$ class and quit whining how OP everyone else is.

I think comparing them to communism is really overboard, but generally speaking I see your point and it could end up being that way. However, I could care less about whether or not another player is rewarded epics if they are skillful enough to do so based on the difficulty level of the challenge that is presented to them. I gain zero satisfaction in this game by comparing myself to others in that way. As long as I am having fun playing then I don't care. If the changes turn out to make end game more boring then I will conclude that it was a bad idea, but until then...

 

[rh71]

aff locks such as myself who do the same or more total dmg (not DPS) in a raid push only 4 buttons most times. 🙁 I'm gonna join the party and get angry too. 😀

Talk about fun vs. labor... it's a game ppl. Draw the line.

 

[Chimley]

Wow.. look fellas... we've probably all been playing since Retail (or some of us.. beta before retail), and you ALL know.. shit changes. Talents change/classes change/mechanics change.

The one thing that DOES NOT change is the calibur of the player and how skillful they are at their class. It does not MATTER how nerfed or buffed your class is now, or how raid synergy may be fucked. Personally, I get into raids not because I'm a certain class. I get in because I am recognized as a skilled PLAYER by my guild. It doesn't matter if I play a fucking mage (and yes, they are borked.. I feel your pain) or my current class (Prot warrior), I'd get in. We min/max when needed to PROGRESS. Once progression is done, it's back to funtime.

Currently, we have a bunch premades in L80 PVP gear testing "beginners" End-Game content. Until this game goes live and real folks hit L80 and venture into Naxx using L70 epics and L80 blues.. nobody knows ANYTHING about how we'll adjust.

Patience!

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: rh71
aff locks such as myself who do the same or more total dmg (not DPS) in a raid push only 4 buttons most times. 🙁 I'm gonna join the party and get angry too. 😀

Talk about fun vs. labor... it's a game ppl. Draw the line.

Haha I was mostly just poking fun at destruction locks that now have to use immolate, incinerate, conflagrate, shadowbolt and... damn I need one more... umm if they didn't change Chaos Mind, you'd be using Soul Fire too! But it's definitely different as you're mixing things up... it's actually harder than a Death Knight's rotation lol.

 

[Soccerman06]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: exdeath
Welcome to World of Communist Warcraft.

Where someone who's never played a game other than solitaire can be just as good as a skilled Sunwell raider by one button clicking with any class the very first day.

WotLK will likely be ending my stay with WoW. It's turning into a care bare game that punishes skilled players for being creative and resourceful and rewarding 13 yr olds with level 15 twinks with Sunwell epics.

They want to take away all the carefully devised tricks and talents that separate skilled players from newbies so that everyone can just one button click their way to Arthas. It's the equivilent of giving everybody in a FPS an aim bot and rail gun and disabling their mouse and keyboard.

All that's left for fulfilling their Marxist revolution is the elimination of all classes and just having one single universal class that can do everything.

And I say this being a Sunwell paladin who enjoys being able to keep up with resto shamans and CoH priests even though its 10 times more effort. Learn to play your #*$#$ class and quit whining how OP everyone else is.

:laugh: but i agree with

After Killing KJ however many months ago it was, Ive seen so much shit since Ill sit in Shat/IF because omg warlocks or rogues or druid or priests or this and that is op... wtf people common. Each class has its specific ability and its unique draw. Why should a person who wears plate and swings a 2hnd mace, when their main spec is either tank or heal, outdps a class specifically made for dps like mage or rogue who wears basically cloth.

This is where all the QQing gets us, some things need to be nerfed, some things need buffed, and somethings need to be removed completely (like spell pushback 🙂 tyty). But nerfing warlock and sp synergy just went too far. I know they are trying to prevent us from doing huge damage but that is just unrealistic, there are ways to not nerf one class and completely screw over the other one.

:frown:

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: exdeath
Welcome to World of Communist Warcraft.

Where someone who's never played a game other than solitaire can be just as good as a skilled Sunwell raider by one button clicking with any class the very first day.

WotLK will likely be ending my stay with WoW. It's turning into a care bare game that punishes skilled players for being creative and resourceful and rewarding 13 yr olds with level 15 twinks with Sunwell epics.

They want to take away all the carefully devised tricks and talents that separate skilled players from newbies so that everyone can just one button click their way to Arthas. It's the equivilent of giving everybody in a FPS an aim bot and rail gun and disabling their mouse and keyboard. And with the now diminished accomplishment of raiding and being good at your class and achieving progression, that is all being replaced by an achievement system (person with the most rune cloth!!! oh joy!)

All that's left for fulfilling their Marxist revolution is the elimination of all classes and just having one single universal class that can do everything.

And I say this being a Sunwell paladin (paladin is the most disadvantaged healer in sunwell) who enjoys being able to keep up with resto shamans and CoH priests even though its 10 times more effort. Learn to play your #*$#$ class and quit whining how OP everyone else is.

I think comparing them to communism is really overboard, but generally speaking I see your point and it could end up being that way. However, I could care less about whether or not another player is rewarded epics if they are skillful enough to do so based on the difficulty level of the challenge that is presented to them. I gain zero satisfaction in this game by comparing myself to others in that way. As long as I am having fun playing then I don't care. If the changes turn out to make end game more boring then I will conclude that it was a bad idea, but until then...

It's not about comparing yourself to others. It's about feeling like you've accomplished something for your hard work and skill, then seeing someone in greens who wipes a pug heroic 5 times but has a shivering felspine and asking yourself wtf is the point anymore.

Screw Naxx and Arthas, they just need to revamp Karazhan for WotLK and make it the only end game raid instance. God forbid we leave people out who can't kill Lurker.

I mean who would want to waste their life away being a CEO working 150 hours a week when you could work at McDonalds for $4.50 an hour part time and still have a Ferrari?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: Xavier434

I think comparing them to communism is really overboard, but generally speaking I see your point and it could end up being that way. However, I could care less about whether or not another player is rewarded epics if they are skillful enough to do so based on the difficulty level of the challenge that is presented to them. I gain zero satisfaction in this game by comparing myself to others in that way. As long as I am having fun playing then I don't care. If the changes turn out to make end game more boring then I will conclude that it was a bad idea, but until then...

It's not about comparing yourself to others. It's about feeling like you've accomplished something for your hard work and skill, then seeing someone in greens who wipes a pug heroic 5 times but has a shivering felspine and asking yourself wtf is the point anymore.

Screw Naxx and Arthas, they just need to revamp Karazhan for WotLK and make it the only end game raid instance. God forbid we leave people out who can't kill Lurker.

I mean who would want to waste their life away being a CEO working 150 hours a week when you could work at McDonalds for $4.50 an hour part time and still have a Ferrari?

There is no point comparing WoW to work or money. They are not the same thing. I don't have fun working for my money very often. I have tons of fun "working" for my epics. In fact, I find that the "work" is more fun and rewarding than the epics themselves. That's the difference or at least that is the difference that Blizz is intending. It's just a video game at the end of the day.

With that said, I have seen what you described in terms of the greens/purps guy example. I can honestly say that it has never bothered me in the slightest. I still feel just as accomplished and happy as my guild progresses through raids.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
I think Warlocks are just angry that they have to press about 5 buttons now and actually have a real rotation rather than just spam shadowbolt 😛. They also have to put in a little more effort and pay attention to their pet or potentially lose DPS. God forbid you have to press CTRL+1 or CTRL+2!!

actually thats not why anyone is mad, we are mad because they took away our utility, i woudl be speced aff right now if it was the highest DPS raiding spec, its not, pressing 1 button is boring as fuck

and guess what WE ARE STILL GONNA BE DOING THAT IN WRATH

aff is sub par utility with sub par DPS as it stands now

destro is zero utility with good DPS

same old same old

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Anubis
actually thats not why anyone is mad, we are mad because they took away our utility, i woudl be speced aff right now if it was the highest DPS raiding spec, its not, pressing 1 button is boring as fuck

and guess what WE ARE STILL GONNA BE DOING THAT IN WRATH

aff is sub par utility with sub par DPS as it stands now

destro is zero utility with good DPS

same old same old

You shoulda read down further where I said that post was a joke... I got bored and wanted to start an argument to amuse me 😱.

The current highest damage destruction warlock build (unless it's changed from last I looked) involves pressing more than one button 😛.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: Anubis
actually thats not why anyone is mad, we are mad because they took away our utility, i woudl be speced aff right now if it was the highest DPS raiding spec, its not, pressing 1 button is boring as fuck

and guess what WE ARE STILL GONNA BE DOING THAT IN WRATH

aff is sub par utility with sub par DPS as it stands now

destro is zero utility with good DPS

same old same old

You shoulda read down further where I said that post was a joke... I got bored and wanted to start an argument to amuse me 😱.

The current highest damage destruction warlock build (unless it's changed from last I looked) involves pressing more than one button 😛.

technicially it takes pressing more then 1 in live
plus warlocks have not been top DPS for a long time, hunters are and their macro is even more "1 button" then locks, no one complains about them and lol they get buffs

and im sure Soccerman06 will support me on this that playing any of the "1 button" classes well is harder then people like to think it is

 

[nanobreath]

Originally posted by: Chimley
Wow.. look fellas... we've probably all been playing since Retail (or some of us.. beta before retail), and you ALL know.. shit changes. Talents change/classes change/mechanics change.

The one thing that DOES NOT change is the calibur of the player and how skillful they are at their class. It does not MATTER how nerfed or buffed your class is now, or how raid synergy may be fucked. Personally, I get into raids not because I'm a certain class. I get in because I am recognized as a skilled PLAYER by my guild. It doesn't matter if I play a fucking mage (and yes, they are borked.. I feel your pain) or my current class (Prot warrior), I'd get in. We min/max when needed to PROGRESS. Once progression is done, it's back to funtime.

Currently, we have a bunch premades in L80 PVP gear testing "beginners" End-Game content. Until this game goes live and real folks hit L80 and venture into Naxx using L70 epics and L80 blues.. nobody knows ANYTHING about how we'll adjust.

Patience!

You make a very valid point, and it's the reason I won't make my decision on wotlk until after it is released.

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Blizz concerns themselves with what truly makes the game the most fun for the most people.

Well I do understand why they would be making the game fun for the most people...except they achieved their current subscriber base with the current game! Granted they have better information and statistics about who's signing up and who's canceling. Maybe they have seen the writing on the wall and are trying to draw people back.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Chimley
Wow.. look fellas... we've probably all been playing since Retail (or some of us.. beta before retail), and you ALL know.. shit changes. Talents change/classes change/mechanics change.

The one thing that DOES NOT change is the calibur of the player and how skillful they are at their class. It does not MATTER how nerfed or buffed your class is now, or how raid synergy may be fucked. Personally, I get into raids not because I'm a certain class. I get in because I am recognized as a skilled PLAYER by my guild. It doesn't matter if I play a fucking mage (and yes, they are borked.. I feel your pain) or my current class (Prot warrior), I'd get in. We min/max when needed to PROGRESS. Once progression is done, it's back to funtime.

Currently, we have a bunch premades in L80 PVP gear testing "beginners" End-Game content. Until this game goes live and real folks hit L80 and venture into Naxx using L70 epics and L80 blues.. nobody knows ANYTHING about how we'll adjust.

Patience!

i agree with you but I?m a pessimist, i always expect the worst,

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Chimley
Wow.. look fellas... we've probably all been playing since Retail (or some of us.. beta before retail), and you ALL know.. shit changes. Talents change/classes change/mechanics change.

The one thing that DOES NOT change is the calibur of the player and how skillful they are at their class. It does not MATTER how nerfed or buffed your class is now, or how raid synergy may be fucked. Personally, I get into raids not because I'm a certain class. I get in because I am recognized as a skilled PLAYER by my guild. It doesn't matter if I play a fucking mage (and yes, they are borked.. I feel your pain) or my current class (Prot warrior), I'd get in. We min/max when needed to PROGRESS. Once progression is done, it's back to funtime.

Currently, we have a bunch premades in L80 PVP gear testing "beginners" End-Game content. Until this game goes live and real folks hit L80 and venture into Naxx using L70 epics and L80 blues.. nobody knows ANYTHING about how we'll adjust.

Patience!

i agree with you but I?m a pessimist, i always expect the worst,

If the United States and World of Warcraft are any indication, large populations tend towards lowest common denominator governing...

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: nanobreath
Well I do understand why they would be making the game fun for the most people...except they achieved their current subscriber base with the current game! Granted they have better information and statistics about who's signing up and who's canceling. Maybe they have seen the writing on the wall and are trying to draw people back.

Who knows? All I know is that the only way to prove your point to them beyond what is already being expressed on their forums is to vote with your wallet. Otherwise, you are getting what you paid for which is a game designed by Blizz as they see fit. I know that may sound a bit cold but that's just the way it is.

Now, do keep in mind that this is not just the case with Blizz. All devs do that. However, I feel that Blizz does do a much better job listening to feedback than most.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Chimley
Wow.. look fellas... we've probably all been playing since Retail (or some of us.. beta before retail), and you ALL know.. shit changes. Talents change/classes change/mechanics change.

The one thing that DOES NOT change is the calibur of the player and how skillful they are at their class. It does not MATTER how nerfed or buffed your class is now, or how raid synergy may be fucked. Personally, I get into raids not because I'm a certain class. I get in because I am recognized as a skilled PLAYER by my guild. It doesn't matter if I play a fucking mage (and yes, they are borked.. I feel your pain) or my current class (Prot warrior), I'd get in. We min/max when needed to PROGRESS. Once progression is done, it's back to funtime.

Currently, we have a bunch premades in L80 PVP gear testing "beginners" End-Game content. Until this game goes live and real folks hit L80 and venture into Naxx using L70 epics and L80 blues.. nobody knows ANYTHING about how we'll adjust.

Patience!

i agree with you but I?m a pessimist, i always expect the worst,

If the United States and World of Warcraft are any indication, large populations tend towards lowest common denominator governing...

Christ dude. Listen to yourself. WoW and Blizz are not a government. They are a business!

That's like comparing Dell, MS, and Walmart to a government. You don't have to pay them your money if you do not want to. You are forced by law to pay taxes. HUGE difference.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Chimley
Wow.. look fellas... we've probably all been playing since Retail (or some of us.. beta before retail), and you ALL know.. shit changes. Talents change/classes change/mechanics change.

The one thing that DOES NOT change is the calibur of the player and how skillful they are at their class. It does not MATTER how nerfed or buffed your class is now, or how raid synergy may be fucked. Personally, I get into raids not because I'm a certain class. I get in because I am recognized as a skilled PLAYER by my guild. It doesn't matter if I play a fucking mage (and yes, they are borked.. I feel your pain) or my current class (Prot warrior), I'd get in. We min/max when needed to PROGRESS. Once progression is done, it's back to funtime.

Currently, we have a bunch premades in L80 PVP gear testing "beginners" End-Game content. Until this game goes live and real folks hit L80 and venture into Naxx using L70 epics and L80 blues.. nobody knows ANYTHING about how we'll adjust.

Patience!

i agree with you but I?m a pessimist, i always expect the worst,

If the United States and World of Warcraft are any indication, large populations tend towards lowest common denominator governing...

WTF are talking about government for?

 

[invidia]

The way I see it, Blizzard is just like any company that's trying to make some damn money. And they're trying their best to satisfy too many people at once (casuals, hardcore, rogue fanboys, etc.) Sorry guys, but Blizzard cannot have their cake and eat it too.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Anubis
technicially it takes pressing more then 1 in live
plus warlocks have not been top DPS for a long time, hunters are and their macro is even more "1 button" then locks, no one complains about them and lol they get buffs

and im sure Soccerman06 will support me on this that playing any of the "1 button" classes well is harder then people like to think it is

For my mage (which is mostly one button), it just depends on the fight itself and any weird mechanics mostly revolving around that rare second button (scorch). But other than that, there aren't many problems that don't relate to me just being a caster.

Originally posted by: Anubis
WTF are talking about government for?

I'm confused too 😱.

EDIT:

Originally posted by: invidia
Sorry guys, but Blizzard cannot have their cake and eat it too.

I'm pretty sure you can and they have... in fact they made cupcakes and tasty brownies available in Dalaran.