the keymaker was a program slated to be destroyed because he was unnecessary.
question is: do some of these programs survive a revision and how.
for example the Frenchman, how many revisions has he lived thru?? or is he just recreated every revision.
When the matrix gets "rebooted", Zion gets deleted and then rebuilt, and so does the matrix. Everyone that aids "the one", including the oracle, keymaker, architect, comes back.
First, you state that the responses of the other ones occur on the monitors. I don't think this is right because there are 5 other previous ones, but there are tons of monitors and tons of different reactions. So it seems that those are all the possible ways he can react, and he can't truly predict the way he will react because humans can choose. Notice how all the monitors synchronize when he says denial, the most predictable of all human responses.
Mathematical precision: they can model all human choices and activities, but as it is now there is a problem of choice, so there are an infinite number of possibilities in which things can happen and which they have to model. For now, they model the most significant ones. Somehow they have to eliminate the largest variable, choice. If they can somehow narrow down a few set ways in which humans will act, or insert something into the Matrix that will get them to act a certain way, then they can create a perfect Matrix. It seems as though Neo sees something specific wrong with the Matrix and that's why he doesn't accept it all his life and can manipulate it. They want to see what problem he sees in the Matrix and what he feels so that it can be fixed.
When he rebuilds Zion, he is, in effect, debugged to see where the problem lies and why he doesn't accept the Matrix. They are able to see what's different in his mind that makes it so he can hack the Matrix so that they can create a better one next time. They also check to see why he doesn't accept the Matrix. Somehow, they are able to use him to recreate a more secure Matrix. I'm not sure if he actually becomes the Architect, or they somehow find a way to use him. Either way, the Matrix is evolved into a better version.
The problem is each time Zion is rebuilt, it's rebuilt from whoever the one chooses. So effectively, humans are evolving and one person, or anomaly, could come along and completely destroy the whole Matrix. So, the current system they have in place is not the ideal Matrix. It contains everyone but the Anomaly. The other problem is obsolete programs become rogue programs in the Matrix that also threaten to undermine the concept. It's obvious that the machines still need us, or else we would have just been destroyed.
Zion is a backup Matrix to control the .01% of the world's population that will not accept the normal Matrix. Thus, everyone is dealt with except for the Anomaly. Somehow they aren't modeling the world right for the Anomaly and he jacks everything up.
The only way it makes sense to me, and I've said this in the other thread is that by choosing the other door, Neo rebuilds the Matrix with new parameters, and he becomes the architect. The person who can hack the Matrix creates a more secure Matrix. Eventually, another him will come along and if he picks the other door, the Matrix no longer needs to be rebuilt because he has built a Matrix to handle the anomaly. He chooses to go back to the Matrix because there is something there for him. Effectively, everyone is contained.
The difference this time that I see is Agent Smith. No one has ever been able to Hack an agent before. Agent Smith is a virus that threatens to undermine the whole system. The only thing that can stop Agent Smith is Neo, and so now, the difference is that the machines now rely on "the one". The ideal Matrix, which is this one, and the one that was finally able to contain the Anomaly also houses a virus now.
Mathematical precision: they can model all human choices and activities, but as it is now there is a problem of choice, so there are an infinite number of possibilities in which things can happen and which they have to model. For now, they model the most significant ones. Somehow they have to eliminate the largest variable, choice. If they can somehow narrow down a few set ways in which humans will act, or insert something into the Matrix that will get them to act a certain way, then they can create a perfect Matrix. It seems as though Neo sees something specific wrong with the Matrix and that's why he doesn't accept it all his life and can manipulate it. They want to see what problem he sees in the Matrix and what he feels so that it can be fixed.
When he rebuilds Zion, he is, in effect, debugged to see where the problem lies and why he doesn't accept the Matrix. They are able to see what's different in his mind that makes it so he can hack the Matrix so that they can create a better one next time. They also check to see why he doesn't accept the Matrix. Somehow, they are able to use him to recreate a more secure Matrix. I'm not sure if he actually becomes the Architect, or they somehow find a way to use him. Either way, the Matrix is evolved into a better version.
The problem is each time Zion is rebuilt, it's rebuilt from whoever the one chooses. So effectively, humans are evolving and one person, or anomaly, could come along and completely destroy the whole Matrix. So, the current system they have in place is not the ideal Matrix. It contains everyone but the Anomaly. The other problem is obsolete programs become rogue programs in the Matrix that also threaten to undermine the concept. It's obvious that the machines still need us, or else we would have just been destroyed.
Zion is a backup Matrix to control the .01% of the world's population that will not accept the normal Matrix. Thus, everyone is dealt with except for the Anomaly. Somehow they aren't modeling the world right for the Anomaly and he jacks everything up.
The only way it makes sense to me, and I've said this in the other thread is that by choosing the other door, Neo rebuilds the Matrix with new parameters, and he becomes the architect. The person who can hack the Matrix creates a more secure Matrix. Eventually, another him will come along and if he picks the other door, the Matrix no longer needs to be rebuilt because he has built a Matrix to handle the anomaly. He chooses to go back to the Matrix because there is something there for him. Effectively, everyone is contained.
The difference this time that I see is Agent Smith. No one has ever been able to Hack an agent before. Agent Smith is a virus that threatens to undermine the whole system. The only thing that can stop Agent Smith is Neo, and so now, the difference is that the machines now rely on "the one". The ideal Matrix, which is this one, and the one that was finally able to contain the Anomaly also houses a virus now.
They are different choices. Anyone who said they are other Neos is an idiot... the Architect himself said there were 5 others.
her209
No Lifer
- Oct 11, 2000
- 56,336
- 11
- 0
Neo is the uncertainty in a large and complex program?
Is he talking about Trinity? I don't think it would be the Oracle because she doesn't give them any choices. She already knows what is going to happen. She gives the illusion of choice.
So Trinity is supposed to enter the Matrix after being asked not to whereby providing Neo with a choice?
How do you know that the matrix has a backup?
and what is with all the unarmed combat that doesn't kill any of the programs and agent smiths? If Neo carried around a sword he could have chopped up all the clones into cubes.
the architect is talking about the Oracle.
"The Architect - Apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own."
Thats the only part where he talks about trinity.
"The Architect - Apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own."
Thats the only part where he talks about trinity.
yes
he's definitely not talking about trinity.
not really. neo always had a choice. but because trinity is in danger, neo feels more compelled to return to the matrix and save her. the other one's didn't have this impetus.
I like this. If i'm reading you correctly, the anomaly is to restart the matrix and become the architect. If that is correct, wouldn't Agent Smith be that French guy?
but that was how it happened in the first 5 iterations. i have a feeling that this one will depart from the past.
very interesting.
guys, i seriously doubt that the one becomes the architect. realize how the architect says that he invented the first matrix, then deisgned a second, and then third, etc. etc. if the One becomes the architect, then each "the One" only creates one particular version of the matrix.
Thanks, I really didn't understand him. I honestly don't know what that speech means as far as the plot, however. I figure we'll find out in November.
The machines are powered by those millions of people in the Matrix. Without those people the machines could no longer run. The machines would not allow those people to be killed because it would ultimately result in their death as well.
not necessarily. remember when the architect says "there are some levels of existance that we are willing to accept." it's just like the conversation neo and the counselor had in the engineering room of zion. although humans could exist w/o the assistance of machines, the standard of living would by much lower. similarly, machines could exist w/o humans, but not to the extent that they are now. the machines would rather have a lower "level of existance" than no existance at all.
ok I'm going to stop quoting you now, as it's getting pretty long.
Anyway, I don't see how the machines could survive without humans. Granted, I don't think that was talked about in the movie but I don't think it's possible.
Would be a boring movie if everyone in the matrix + zion died and the machines whipped out their Mr Fusion (think BTTF) to keep themselves living
Anyway, I don't see how the machines could survive without humans. Granted, I don't think that was talked about in the movie but I don't think it's possible.
Would be a boring movie if everyone in the matrix + zion died and the machines whipped out their Mr Fusion (think BTTF) to keep themselves living
trust me, the machines can live w/o the humans. (well, at least in the context of the movie )
here's an exerpt from teh conversation w/ the architect:
The Architect - The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.
Neo - You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.
The Architect - There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.
)here's an exerpt from teh conversation w/ the architect:
The Architect - The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.
Neo - You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.
The Architect - There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.
The question of why the machines would allow another Zion intrigued me as well, until a friend suggested the following: What would be the point of the machines' existence without someone to rule over, someone to destroy? Perhaps the reason that they allow the .1% (100 - 99.9 = .1%, not 1% or .01% as some have posted) of nonbelievers in the matrix to live is to feel powerful and superior over an inferior opponent.
This idea actually ties in with what happened earlier in the movie: After Neo couldn't sleep at Zion, he and the old dude took a walk to the engineering sector of the city, where the old guy spend five minutes talking about the water-processing plant. If you recall, he said that we have power and control over this water machine, and can destroy it at any time, but in doing so, we destroy our clean water, and therefore hurt ourselves. The ultimate point of his speech was that the machines need us just as much as we need them. Hence, this idea could be extrapolated to relate to the big picture, where it's the other way around: the machines have control over humans.
This idea actually ties in with what happened earlier in the movie: After Neo couldn't sleep at Zion, he and the old dude took a walk to the engineering sector of the city, where the old guy spend five minutes talking about the water-processing plant. If you recall, he said that we have power and control over this water machine, and can destroy it at any time, but in doing so, we destroy our clean water, and therefore hurt ourselves. The ultimate point of his speech was that the machines need us just as much as we need them. Hence, this idea could be extrapolated to relate to the big picture, where it's the other way around: the machines have control over humans.
I don't understand how humans could serve as an energy source. You can't violate the laws of physics.
FeathersMcGraw
Diamond Member
- Oct 17, 2001
- 4,041
- 1
- 0
Wow, crazy spoilers in a post whose title doesn't make it immediately obvious what it's about. Sure am glad I already saw Reloaded twice before I saw this.
why not? who's to say humans have figured out all the laws of physics?
case in point, current research in quantum computing shows not all laws of physics are obeyed at the molecular/atomic level.
Mr.IncrediblyBored
Lifer
- Jun 18, 2000
- 11,197
- 769
- 126
He posted the script to quite possibly the most important part of the movie. Why would anybody who has not seen the movie take it upon themselves to read script excerps from it?
Edit: In hindsight, its not very clear that the script is from The Matrix: Reloaded. How else would one know who the Architect is? Though, I question why you would continue reading after seeing Neo's name in the text.
this movie is too deep. I think they had some philosophical articles on the official matrix website. Might help out.
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