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The age of ignorance

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Theres more knowledge available at this instant in time than any previous instant.

Humans only look ignorant by comparison. They are actually quite knowledgeable.
 
Fear is a great motivator. Using it to sway people to one's side is the oldest trick in The Book. Lately it's become a science.

-If we don't stop polluting, the environment will be lost!

-If we don't stop Christie now, he'll be too formidable in a general election!

-If we don't collect this data, you'll be less safe!

-If we let gays marry, yours will mean less!

-If we allow abortion, (I'm not sure what's to be afraid of on this one - we have too many uncared for children already [which I believe is linked to IQ through nutrition and maybe faith in oneself], which may lead to lemming-ness.

From all sides it comes. To keep from getting annoyed at all this, but to stay up on current events I read and watch as much foreign media as possible. It appeals to my thinking mind more than my emotional mind.

There are exceptions though. For example I learned about drone targeting today on Democracy Now.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/02/10/the-nsas-secret-role/

According to a former drone operator for the military’s Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) who also worked with the NSA, the agency often identifies targets based on controversial metadata analysis and cell-phone tracking technologies. Rather than confirming a target’s identity with operatives or informants on the ground, the CIA or the U.S. military then orders a strike based on the activity and location of the mobile phone a person is believed to be using.
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On the show they raised the question, "How do you surrender to a drone?" How do you tell a drone, "You've got the wrong man"? As the drone-inventing society, shouldn't we be collectively asking these questions, and asking exactly what expresses our 'core' values?
 
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shortylickens said:
Theres more knowledge available at this instant in time than any previous instant.

Humans only look ignorant by comparison. They are actually quite knowledgeable.
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Uh no... cable TV is a good example. It used to be 4-5 OTA channels so everyone watched the same shows.

Now there are like 100's of channels, thats if people even watch cable and aren't off watching netflix, hulu, etc.

As a result everyone has developed very personalized tastes. There are more subgroups of people who think different ways, talk different ways, have different beliefs, etc that are developing far faster than people can even begin to understand them.

Talking like, hipsters, workaholics, work to live, live to work, money is everything, money isn't everything, different ethnicity, nerds, jocks, education levels, etc.

I don't think society has ever been so fragmented.
 
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OverVolt said:
Uh no... cable TV is a good example. It used to be 4-5 OTA channels so everyone watched the same shows.

Now there are like 100's of channels, thats if people even watch cable and aren't off watching netflix, hulu, etc.

As a result everyone has developed very personalized tastes. There are more subgroups of people who think different ways, talk different ways, have different beliefs, etc that are developing far faster than people can even begin to understand them.

Talking like, hipsters, workaholics, work to live, live to work, money is everything, money isn't everything, different ethnicity, nerds, jocks, education levels, etc.

I don't think society has ever been so fragmented.
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Our voices carry father than they ever have before. We find agreement, we feel right. We find disagreement, we feel right.

I agree that there used to be fewer channels, but media consolidation is more pervasive now IMO.
 
_OUR_ voices, and _OUR_ knowledge.

There is a sub-class of Americans, and it is growing larger and larger, fed by Democrat politicians. They can hardly be called American. They are American in name only.

So while you and I wonder aloud, how could anyone do what they are doing, they continue to live, hand to mouth, supported by "politicians."

It's the only explanation.

-John
 
bradly1101 said:
Our voices carry father than they ever have before. We find agreement, we feel right. We find disagreement, we feel right.

I agree that there used to be fewer channels, but media consolidation is more pervasive now IMO.
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In the abortion debate the pro-choice and pro-life sides experimented with becoming friends with the other side.

It was possible for them to become good friends but it actually drove a bigger ideological wedge between them on their stances. So I don't think better communication in the long term is doing what you think its doing.

Repubs and Dems are just becoming further and further entrenched in their ideologies. Neither one I bet even remembers the historical context behind why they stand for certain ideals anymore. There is a time and place where a certain idea is the right solution.

So not only are groups more fractured thanks to so many different ideas but they are entrenched and unwilling to really compromise. Nobody is willing to tackle grey area issues with a level head, everyone would rather break it down to black and white and then bicker about who is correct. Nothing gets done that way and its not a surprise to me that we have a "do nothing" congress.
 
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OverVolt said:
Uh no... cable TV is a good example. It used to be 4-5 OTA channels so everyone watched the same shows.

Now there are like 100's of channels, thats if people even watch cable and aren't off watching netflix, hulu, etc.

As a result everyone has developed very personalized tastes. There are more subgroups of people who think different ways, talk different ways, have different beliefs, etc that are developing far faster than people can even begin to understand them.

Talking like, hipsters, workaholics, work to live, live to work, money is everything, money isn't everything, different ethnicity, nerds, jocks, education levels, etc.

I don't think society has ever been so fragmented.
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I don't even know what to make of this.

So the problem with society is too many ideas??? People are somehow "educated" based on how few channels of TV they have available?? (The whole premise of TV as a crucial medium of actual education in the first place is jacked up, but based on FEWER ideas being presented?)

Going by these 'standards' I guess places like North Korea must be the most educated on earth, because there's only TV channels approved by the all-knowing dear leaders. And things surely must "get done" because all those pesky 'ideas' that run counter to what's been approved by the state know-it-alls are pretty much outlawed.
 
Zaap said:
I don't even know what to make of this.

So the problem with society is too many ideas??? People are somehow "educated" based on how few channels of TV they have available?? (The whole premise of TV as a crucial medium of actual education in the first place is jacked up, but based on FEWER ideas being presented?)

Going by these 'standards' I guess places like North Korea must be the most educated on earth, because there's only TV channels approved by the all-knowing dear leaders. And things surely must "get done" because all those pesky 'ideas' that run counter to what's been approved by the state know-it-alls are pretty much outlawed.
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No... thats not really it. Its not just about education. More channels and more access to information also means more misinformation. Just as the guy before said, our voices can go farther than ever.

That includes misinformation. These days despite the web and such people are actually very, very bad at sorting out misinformation. A good example is all the vaccine phobia I suppose. There is so much misinformation out there its unreal.
 
That just it, misinformation according to who? The state-approved information agency?

Virtually *everything* can be called misinformation to someone else that the information is unfavorable to.

Also this is nothing new. You're lodging the same complaint that was raised against the printing press and making ideas from anywhere (the horrors!) readily available to the unwashed masses who couldn't possibly handle it.

I really love this mythology people imagine that there was ever a time when even a large percentage of the populace (let alone everyone) actually agreed on anything, all had the same opinions and ideas, and everyone held hands and 'just got along' and "got things done" because they all agreed with each other. Hint: such a mythical time NEVER existed, and never will. People in the past not only weren't united in everything, they were often very violently opposed to each other, way more-so than today's actually quite civil society in comparison.

Get back to us when there are actual lynch mobs, race/food/draft/squatter/labor riots, civil and revolutionary wars, mass uprisings (the real thing, not a bunch of spoiled rich kids holding up whiney signs and tweeting on their iPhones) etc. etc. etc.
 
Zaap said:
That just it, misinformation according to who? The state-approved information agency?

Virtually *everything* can be called misinformation to someone else that the information is unfavorable to.

Also this is nothing new. You're lodging the same complaint that was raised against the printing press and making ideas from anywhere (the horrors!) readily available to the unwashed masses who couldn't possibly handle it.

I really love this mythology people imagine that there was ever a time when even a large percentage of the populace (let alone everyone) actually agreed on anything, all had the same opinions and ideas, and everyone held hands and 'just got along' and "got things done" because they all agreed with each other. Hint: such a mythical time NEVER existed, and never will. People in the past not only weren't united in everything, they were often very violently opposed to each other, way more-so than today's actually quite civil society in comparison.

Get back to us when there are actual lynch mobs, race/food/draft/squatter/labor riots, civil and revolutionary wars, mass uprisings (the real thing, not a bunch of spoiled rich kids holding up whiney signs and tweeting on their iPhones) etc. etc. etc.
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#1 Okay I can agree

#2 More like distracted society
 
Zorkorist said:
_OUR_ voices, and _OUR_ knowledge.

There is a sub-class of Americans, and it is growing larger and larger, fed by Democrat politicians. They can hardly be called American. They are American in name only.

So while you and I wonder aloud, how could anyone do what they are doing, they continue to live, hand to mouth, supported by "politicians."

It's the only explanation.

-John
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Seek professional help.
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
Progressive blames victims of failed progressive education system. That's rich.
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You mean the education system that continues to see budget cuts, focuses too much on crappy standardized tests, and, in some states, is starting to incorporate young-Earth creationism into the curriculum?

Sounds super progressive.

boomerang said:
Well yeah, but, but, but it's underfunded.
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Considering I left high school in 2008 (so, relatively not too long ago), I think I'm in a good position to say that the faculty and administration CONSTANTLY complained about underfunding for ALL areas of the school regardless of their political views (I lived in a very conservative town). It was pretty common to have programs cancelled, classes consolidated and simplified (in content and diversity), lack of supplies, utilities, equipment (especially in science classes), etc.

I'm not saying students still couldn't excel, and some teachers still did a fantastic job working with what was historically considered a lack of resources and funding, but our public education system as a whole is too under-valued and could use some dramatic improvements. This will likely take more funding, at least at the start (I'm talking an initial investment to make improvements, not necessarily a permanent cost increase.).

Or we can continue to be content and/or bury our heads in the sand while we statistically slip further and further below other countries...and not just in education/intelligence. That'll do our country some real good in the long run.
 
BUnit1701 said:
But we have to bear in mind that intelligence does not equal knowledge nor wisdom.
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That's wise of you to remember that a good combination is needed. I would add good morals as a critical ingredient.

A simple computer analogy:

fluid intelligence, g(f), as the CPU & RAM speed, knowledge = crystallized intelligence, g(c), as the HD speed, and wisdom as the computer user's experience at using the system.
 
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hans030390 said:
You mean the education system that continues to see budget cuts, focuses too much on crappy standardized tests, and, in some states, is starting to incorporate young-Earth creationism into the curriculum?

Sounds super progressive.
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Total expenditures per student in fall enrollment in public elementary and secondary schools, in constant 2011-12 dollars, by type of total expenditures: 1999-2000, 2005-06, and 2009-10

figure-cmb-1.gif



OB-XO227_PUPIL_E_20130521163518.jpg


There was a relative flatness since 2010 due to the impact of the economy; however, overall spending per student is at historical highs when adjusted for inflation. Perhaps you went to high school in a State that was hit harder by the recession.
 
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What I find most striking is that whenever I have had the chance to talk to people from other countries (Europeans, Indians, Pakistanis, Arabs etc), they seem to be so much more well informed about the world than Americans.

One reason I think is the domestic insular tradition of America (even though we have meddled all over the world). The second reason is that the media here is not to inform anyone. They do the thinking for their audience. Tell them this is what it is, this is what to think - instead of actually presenting anything with anything even approaching objectivity and letting people form their own views.

There is greater access to information than ever before - thanks to internet and various gadgets and what not. America continues to have a first class library system. Yet the level of ignorance has never been greater.
 
squarecut1 said:
What I find most striking is that whenever I have had the chance to talk to people from other countries (Europeans, Indians, Pakistanis, Arabs etc), they seem to be so much more well informed about the world than Americans.

One reason I think is the domestic insular tradition of America (even though we have meddled all over the world). The second reason is that the media here is not to inform anyone. They do the thinking for their audience. Tell them this is what it is, this is what to think - instead of actually presenting anything with anything even approaching objectivity and letting people form their own views.

There is greater access to information than ever before - thanks to internet and various gadgets and what not. America continues to have a first class library system. Yet the level of ignorance has never been greater.
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Very well said. It seems that any news that is put out here is always centered around how it afects us here in the U.S. If it is thought that the information is not directly relevant to us, it never really seemsto make the headlines However, it is just those headlines that might affect us down the road and would be good to know about before they become a situation that we can't manage.

- Merg
 
The Merg said:
Very well said. It seems that any news that is put out here is always centered around how it afects us here in the U.S.

- Merg
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Yes, if it is covered at all, it is only covered from that angle. This is one of the several reasons I stopped watching American news outlets a long time ago. It insults your intelligence. The newspapers are only marginally better. I rely mainly on international outlets. Thanks to the net and tv technology these days, it is rather easy now
 
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