The age of ignorance

[piasabird]

I am all for improvement and less pollution; but raising taxes doesn't get us there.

 

[motsm]

This article is a n alright example of what the author claims to be preaching against. I would hope that it was some kind of satire, but alas, I believe he's just a complete buffoon.

 

[Moonbeam]

People with the highest IQs are typically politically center-right and centrist.

https://lesacreduprintemps19.files....l-orientations-intelligence-and-education.pdf

Actually, the group with the highest IQs in the study were centrist right and then left by a few points difference but rather higher than the extremes, with the measurement done in Brazil.

But the information I found interesting is something I've noticed forever, that the burgher (middle-class, civil) phenomenon favored by the intelligent is an outgrowth of cities engaged in trade, basically an ethical system that tolerates difference for mutual benefit. This kind of thinking, in my opinion, originated from need, the development of flexibility of thinking, a tolerance of novelty, and a seeking out of the new to experience. These are all liberal values and liberal traits, so the ethical values you support, it seems to me, are the same as those I value, that what used to be center left and center right, are what is really liberal progressive thinking, the integration of opposites at a higher level of understanding, not left not right, but integrative.

Finally, one of the features of the burgher phenomenon as describe in your link is a willingness to compromise, very unlike conservative values as expressed in the US today.

 

[Moonbeam]

Oh noes, an urban liberal called people "ignorant," whatever shall we do? I guess go to our well-paying jobs, in safe suburban neighborhoods with great school systems and almost exclusively two-parent households. Then go home to our large houses where there are no gangs, drugs being sold, or multiple people being shot every week. Then we'll count all the money we have left over after not paying the city taxes, not dealing with panhandlers, and corrupt aldermen.

Then we can ponder some of the wisdom from you guys, like how poverty is what causes crime, minorities can only succeed because of affirmative action, "income inequality" is the biggest danger facing the nation, and more.

I like your argument and the emotional comfort it must provide you. But my neighborhood is just as you describe except if stuffed full of liberals who can both walk and chew gum. We like to think about how everybody else can become like us and we act on it politically, creating the very liberal system you have parasitized for your personal selfish success. You are like rot in a cheese, anti social and anti civil, a little self interested prick, no?

 

[DominionSeraph]

But lets not leave out the lies used to herd the other half of the country around:

* Whites are over-privileged in this country
* The Government can and will solve ALL of your problems
* Bush was Satan and Cruz is a Canadian!
* Climate change is going to destroy modern civilization unless we all start paying carbon taxes to the UN.
* The President would be considered right of center in any other country
* Unemployment benefits create jobs faster than almost any other initiative
* Greedy rich Republicans are not giving you their money fast enough
* Babies are not babies unless their mother says so
* Men are barbaric uncaring brutes and must be denigrated at every opportunity
* Urinating on yourself is sufficient to end any assault.
* Guns are the root of all evil, and if we just got rid of the guns, the criminals would go away too

We didn't need another example of stupid conservative beliefs.

 

[bradly1101]

What is the most sensible explanation that you can find for this? I look to motivation, the presence of feeling that cause bias of perspective, the search for the beam in the eye of the other and never the mote in ones own.

The only thing that creates universal motivation, in my opinion, is pleasure and pain, the seeking of the warm and fuzzy, as LunarRay calls it, and the avoidance of pain.

Looking further into the nerve centers as to where these emotions find origin, I believe it lies in the human condition, our arrival into the world in a dependent state, the need for love and nurture the pain that exists when these things are missing or withheld.

We arrive then at this basic need for validation and how it could have come into being, the striving for acceptance due to its lack. A child that has been put down and told that he must be such and such to be loved, not the person he is, is doomed to a life seeking to meet the standards of whatever conformity was required by its guardians. We get a seeker of validation and an avoider of the truth that caused him to become who he now is.

Naturally, since one now has this external need for validation and is focused on it, and having told oneself a story that one is now a worthy conforming adult, it will not be an easy task to throw that all out and face ones inner lack, the knowledge that one was always perfectly worthy of being loved.

Well said. I agree that what drives us is instinctual, and is rooted in desire. I would hope as humans we could elevate ourselves beyond being simple reaction factories. Our feelings about the truth are not the truth. We have to be willing to step outside the comfort zone to really see it.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Edit: BTW...Brazil is a very conservative country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_by_country

http://web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2006/teams/willr3/const.htm

Article 3. The fundamental objectives of the Federative Republic of Brazil are:

I. to build a free, just and solidary society;
II. to guarantee national development;
III. to eradicate poverty and substandard living conditions and to reduce social and regional inequalities;
IV. to promote the well-being of all, without prejudice as to origin, race, sex, colour, age and any other forms of discrimination.

CHAPTER I - INDIVIDUAL AND COLLECTIVE RIGHTS AND DUTIES

Article 5. All persons are equal before the law, without any distinction whatsoever, Brazilians and foreigners residing in the country being ensured of inviolability of the right to life, to liberty, to equality, to security and to property,

CHAPTER II - SOCIAL RIGHTS

Article 6. Education, health, work, leisure, security, social security, protection of motherhood and childhood, and assistance to the destitute, are social rights, as set forth by this Constitution.

Article 7. The following are rights of urban and rural workers, among others that aim to improve their social conditions:

employment protected against arbitrary dismissal or against dismissal without just cause, in accordance with a supplementary law which shall establish severance-pay, among other rights;
unemployment insurance, in the event of involuntary unemployment;
severance-pay fund;
nationally unified minimum wage, established by law, capable of satisfying their basic living needs and those of their families with housing, food, education, health, leisure, clothing, hygiene, transportation and social security, with periodical adjustments to maintain its purchasing power, it being forbidden to use it as an index for any purpose;
a salary floor in proportion to the extent and complexity of the work;
irreducibility of the wages, except when established in collective agreement or covenant;
guarantee of wages never below the minimum one, for those receiving variable pay;
year-end one-salary bonus based on the full pay or on the amount of the pension;
payrate for night-shift work higher than that for daytime work;
wage protection, as provided by law, with felonious withholding c. wages being a crime;
participation in the profits or results, independent of wages, and, exceptionally, participation in the management of the company, defined by law;
family allowance for their dependents;
normal working hours not exceeding eight hours per day a forty-four hours per week, with the option of compensating working hours a reducing the length of the workday through an agreement or a collection bargaining covenant;
a workday of six hours for work carried out in continuous s} unless otherwise established by collective bargaining;
paid weekly leave, preferably on Sundays;
rate of pay for overtime at least fifty per cent higher than that of normal work;
annual vacation with remuneration at least one third higher than the normal salary;
maternity leave without loss of job and of salary, for a period of one hundred and twenty days;
paternity leave, under the terms established by law;
protection of the labour market for women through specific incentives, as provided by law;
advance notice of dismissal in proportion to the length of service of at least thirty days, as provided by law;
reduction of employment related risks by means of health, hygiene and safety rules;
additional remuneration for strenuous, unhealthy or dangerous work, as established by law;
retirement pension;
free assistance for children and dependents from birth to six years of age, in day-care centres and pre-school facilities;
recognition of collective bargaining agreements and covenants;
protection on account of automation, as established by law;
occupational accident insurance, to be paid for by the employer, without excluding the employer's liability for indemnity in the event of malice or fault;
legal action with respect to credits arising from employment relationships with a limitation of:
five years for urban workers, up to the limit of two years after the end of the employment contract;
up to two years after the end of the contract for rural workers;
prohibition of any difference in wages, in the performance of duties and in hiring criteria by reason of sex, age, colour or marital status;
prohibition of any discrimination with respect to wages and hiring criteria of handicapped workers;
prohibition of any distinction between manual, technical and intellectual work or among the respective professionals;
prohibition of night, dangerous or unhealthy work for minors under eighteen years of age, and of any work for minors under fourteen years of age, except as an apprentice;
equal rights for workers with a permanent employment bond and for sporadic workers.
Sole paragraph - The category of domestic servants is ensured of the rights set forth in items IV, VI, VIII, XV, XVII, XVIII, XIX, XXI and XXIV, as well as of integration in the social security system.

Article 8. Professional or union association is free, with regard for the following:

the law may not require authorization of the State for a union to be founded, except for authorization for registration with the competent agency. it being forbidden to the Government the interference and the intervention in the union;
it is forbidden to create more than one union, at any level representing a professional or economic category, in the same territorial base, which shall be defined by the workers or employers concerned, which base may not cover less than the area of one municipality;
it falls to the union to defend the collective or individual rights and interests of the category, including legal or administrative disputes;
the general assembly shall establish the contribution which, in the case of a professional category, shall be discounted from the payroll, to support the confederative system of the respective union representation, regardless of the-contribution set forth by law;
no one shall be required to join or to remain a member of a union;
the collective labor bargainings must be held with the participation of unions;
retired members shall be entitled to vote and be voted on in unions;
the dismissal of a unionised employee is forbidden from the moment of the registration of his candidacy to a position of union direction or representation and, if elected, even if as a substitute, up to one year after the end of his term in office, unless he commits a serious fault as established by law
Sole paragraph - The provisions of this article apply to the organization of rural unions and those of fishing communities, with due regard for the conditions established by law.

Article 9. The right to strike is guaranteed, it being the competence of workers to decide on the advisability of exercising it and on the interests to defended thereby.

Paragraph 1. The law shall define the essential services or activities shall provide with respect to the satisfaction of the community's undelayable needs.

Paragraph 2. The abuses committed shall subject those responsible to penalties of the law.

Article 10. The participation of workers and employers is ensured in collegiate bodies of government agencies in which their professional or so security interests are subject of discussion and resolution.

Article 11. It is ensured, in companies with more than 200 employees, I election of a representative of the employees for the exclusive purpose furthering direct negotiations with the employers.

Death penalty and life imprisonment are both banned by the Constitution.

Seems pretty far from a racist, misogynistic theocracy with an unregulated free market.

 

[thraashman]

Satoshi Kanazawa is a world-renowned pseudo-scientist with zero credibility. Just about every "study" he's ever conducted has been highly criticized.

http://www.adweek.com/news/press/psychology-today-asks-why-black-women-arent-pretty-131686

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/nov/05/highereducation.research

http://www.science20.com/rogue_neur...ore_intelligent_better_check_your_definitions

LOL

Edit: BTW...Brazil is a very conservative country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_by_country

Then you also have this "Conservatism and Cognitive Ability Negatively Correlated"
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289609000051

or this "Conservatism, racism, and low IQ linked"
pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/01/04/0956797611421206.abstract
"we found that lower general intelligence (g) in childhood predicts greater racism in adulthood, and this effect was largely mediated via conservative ideology"

In the end nothing that uses models based on countries other than America can be a predictor of American attitudes and intelligence. Trying to use a Brazilian and German population study to predict a situation amongst an American population is simply idiotic and thus your link has been thoroughly debunked in regards to this argument.

 

[zinfamous]

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+4:4&version=KJV
Writer of article just wants more sheeple.
He cannot see the truth;He is blinded.

speaking of sheeple...
:hmm:

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Then you also have this "Conservatism and Cognitive Ability Negatively Correlated"
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289609000051

or this "Conservatism, racism, and low IQ linked"
pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/01/04/0956797611421206.abstract
"we found that lower general intelligence (g) in childhood predicts greater racism in adulthood, and this effect was largely mediated via conservative ideology"

In the end nothing that uses models based on countries other than America can be a predictor of American attitudes and intelligence. Trying to use a Brazilian and German population study to predict a situation amongst an American population is simply idiotic and thus your link has been thoroughly debunked in regards to this argument.

I'll tell you what was thoroughly debunked...the Kanazawa study you previously cited and your assertion that Brazil was more liberal than the U.S. which you made in order to rationalize the study I cited. Bullshit on 2 counts...both of which you've failed to acknowledge.

 

[DominionSeraph]

I'll tell you what was thoroughly debunked...the Kanazawa study you previously cited and your assertion that Brazil was more liberal than the U.S. which you made in order to rationalize the study I cited. Bullshit on 2 counts...both of which you've failed to acknowledge.

You didn't even read your own link.

In Brazil, Liberalism (in a general, international acceptance) is currently unrepresented

In the United States, the primary use of the term liberal is at some variance with European and worldwide usage.

You should read the link in the OP, as it describes you.
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/mar/20/age-of-ignorance/

 

[werepossum]

No...actually mean IQ today in the U.S. is about 15 points higher than 50 years ago. Mean U.S. IQ has been rising about 3 points per decade over the past 100 years.

IQ is merely the capacity to think, and even then merely someone's rough approximation. It helps fight ignorance if combined with will and opportunity/informational access, but is no guarantee against it.

But lets not leave out the lies used to herd the other half of the country around:

* Whites are over-privileged in this country
* The Government can and will solve ALL of your problems
* Bush was Satan and Cruz is a Canadian!
* Climate change is going to destroy modern civilization unless we all start paying carbon taxes to the UN.
* The President would be considered right of center in any other country
* Unemployment benefits create jobs faster than almost any other initiative
* Greedy rich Republicans are not giving you their money fast enough
* Babies are not babies unless their mother says so
* Men are barbaric uncaring brutes and must be denigrated at every opportunity
* Urinating on yourself is sufficient to end any assault.
* Guns are the root of all evil, and if we just got rid of the guns, the criminals would go away too

Every person of every political persuasion who is not a member of the 1% is being hoodwinked in this country. Wake up and smell the bullshit.

Well said.

 

[videogames101]

"if more people weren't stupid, the country would be better"

wow, what a thread - tell me more please

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

IQ is merely the capacity to think, and even then merely someone's rough approximation. It helps fight ignorance if combined with will and opportunity/informational access, but is no guarantee against it.

IQ is probably the best available proxy we have to measure intelligence.

 

[hal2kilo]

I am all for improvement and less pollution; but raising taxes doesn't get us there.

It's like magic. If your a capitalist everything requires money to get done. When it's the government it all works on good intentions.

 

[BUnit1701]

IQ is probably the best available proxy we have to measure intelligence.

But we have to bear in mind that intelligence does not equal knowledge nor wisdom.

 

[BUnit1701]

It's like magic. If your a capitalist everything requires money to get done. When it's the government it all works on good intentions.

Yes, because giving government all your money will stop pollution...

 

[hal2kilo]

Yes, because giving government all your money will stop pollution...

Only idiots give all their money to government. Hyperbole much.

 

[Moonbeam]

Only idiots give all their money to government. Hyperbole much.

Not if you consider that he is speaking the truth of his feelings. It is not so far a stretch of my imagination to see how people who have focused on their own success at sone considerable expenditure of effort night be loathed to be forced to surrender a portion of their hard won income to benefit people they regard as scum. The moral failing they have isn't so much that they are greedy, but that they separate their intelligence from empathy. They are only the fortunate few who grew up benefitting from the effort of long dead liberals. They are wiki fully blind because they are unwilling to shoulder that burden for the next generation. They are mentally flaccid and morally weak.

 

[Moonbeam]

But we have to bear in mind that intelligence does not equal knowledge nor wisdom.

Essentially so. Neuroscience tells us that there is nothing wrong with the intelligence of conservatives except that they us it to avoid truths that cause their egos to deflate. They allow irrational emotions to bias what they see. Liberals are not immune to this but express it in different ways.

 

[werepossum]

IQ is probably the best available proxy we have to measure intelligence.

Perhaps. I took a LOT of IQ tests in eighth grade and the results were all over the board, with the results on some not even being recognized as within human limits on others. When the range of scores is effectively 100% of the lowest score, it's hard to have any faith in any of them. Granted, determining IQ for kids is harder than for adults and the ability to score high on IQ tests certainly has some correlation to intelligence, but personally I'd trade an ounce of drive and common sense for a pound of measured IQ.

 

[Matt1970]

Essentially so. Neuroscience tells us that there is nothing wrong with the intelligence of conservatives except that they us it to avoid truths that cause their egos to deflate. They allow irrational emotions to bias what they see. Liberals are not immune to this but express it in different ways.

Neuroscience says nothing of the sort, you just wish it did.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Oh noes, an urban liberal called people "ignorant," whatever shall we do? I guess go to our well-paying jobs, in safe suburban neighborhoods with great school systems and almost exclusively two-parent households. Then go home to our large houses where there are no gangs, drugs being sold, or multiple people being shot every week. Then we'll count all the money we have left over after not paying the city taxes, not dealing with panhandlers, and corrupt aldermen.

Then we can ponder some of the wisdom from you guys, like how poverty is what causes crime, minorities can only succeed because of affirmative action, "income inequality" is the biggest danger facing the nation, and more.

You might want to consider moving into an urban area.

Murder rate climbing in American suburban areas while declining nationally:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323300404578206873179427496

gap between crime rates in urban and suburban areas narrows:

"The gap between city and suburban violent crime rates declined in nearly two-thirds of metro areas. In 90 of the 100 largest metro areas, the gap between city and suburban property crime rates narrowed from 1990 to 2008. In most metro areas, city and suburban crime rates rose or fell together.

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/re.../0526_metropolitan_crime_kneebone_raphael.pdf

crime falling faster in urban than suburban areas:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/122632439.html

Poverty grows in suburbs:

"From 2000 to 2010, the number of poor in the suburbs or the nation’s largest metro areas grew by 53 percent to a record 15.3 million. And while poverty has increased in cities as well, the growth rate in the number of poor living in the suburbs was more than twice that in cities during the decade—and the suburbs are now home to the largest and fastest-growing poor population in the country."

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/03/the_suburbs_are_dead_and_thats_not_a_good_thing/

 

[Paratus]

But lets not leave out the lies used to herd the other half of the country around:

* Whites are over-privileged in this country
* The Government can and will solve ALL of your problems
* Bush was Satan and Cruz is a Canadian!
* Climate change is going to destroy modern civilization unless we all start paying carbon taxes to the UN.
* The President would be considered right of center in any other country
* Unemployment benefits create jobs faster than almost any other initiative
* Greedy rich Republicans are not giving you their money fast enough
* Babies are not babies unless their mother says so
* Men are barbaric uncaring brutes and must be denigrated at every opportunity
* Urinating on yourself is sufficient to end any assault.
* Guns are the root of all evil, and if we just got rid of the guns, the criminals would go away too

Every person of every political persuasion who is not a member of the 1% is being hoodwinked in this country. Wake up and smell the bullshit.

 

[Vic]

It seems to me that most people don't want truth but validation.

This :thumbup: