The 9/9/2014 Apple Launch Event Thread

Page 35 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
What's good for Apple Pay is good for Google Wallet, and vice versa.

It's no secret all of Apple Pay's "launch partners" have been supporting Google Wallet for years.

What I find completely diabolical and shameless is putting 16GB on a flagship phone without expansion capabilities. Looking at other flagships like the G3, M8, and Lumia Icon, they come standard with 32GB plus a microSDHC slot.

I know it's a very lucrative business decision for Apple, making people decide between being price conscious and value conscious. I'm just glad I don't have to play childish games with storage capacity.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
So nfc on the iPhone is gimped?

That's what I'm reading. It will only be available for ApplePay use. It won't be open to other apps.

While I want to be outraged and *rabble rabble rabble apple baaddd rabble rabble rabble!"...

I just struggle to be. Other than the gimmicky file beam does an initial pairing with NFC how many people really do any NFC stuff with their phones? I've seen a few people do some programming of NFC tags to stick them at work or at home to unlock their phones. But that is really it. It's not a tech that has really caught on for anything significant.

So yeah, while nature of of the move annoys me, the real world impact doesn't.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
I'm moving from a 5 to a 6+.

There is a huge difference between the 5 and the 5s. There isn't much of a difference between the 6 and the 5s at all really except slightly bigger screen, NFC payments, rounded edges, and a 6-8% performance difference. The regular 5 and 5c don't even have the A7 processor in them unlike the 5s.

Much better battery life on the 6+ is a huge bonus for me. I do a lot of support on a mobile device and the larger screen coupled with better battery life means easier support for our clients using remote access software.

Battery is a 2900ma battery in the 6+ and 1800 in the 6. Battery life is comparable with the 5s, but slightly better than the 5 or 4 series. Some reports though showing the battery not nearly what is being hyped to be in the 6 especially with the bigger screen size. Most of the big android phones with 5.5 inch 1080p ips screens go with a 3200ma or bigger battery for a reason.

As others have said, a lot of the features of the 6/6+ are already present on Android phones but sometimes good implementation beats out early implementation.

Umm wtf is this statement? Apple isn't doing anything better or worse for the same features that have been present on Android phones for a long time. Apple is putting out a quality product with the 6 series I am sure. But to say that the features in the 6 are just "better" than Android equivalent is stupid.

I will however, disagree with those who blindly say that Apple never innovates or only copies. Apple is very smart with what they implement first (higher res display, 64bit support, etc.) but I do feel that lately, they've been handcuffed by their success and slow to move forward in creative ways. As much of an egomaniac and control freak Steve Jobs was, he recognized what would be the "next big thing" for Apple. Tim Cooks is a good CEO, but he doesn't have the creative flair that Jobs had. And to be honest, I don't think Jony Ive has it either. Ive's designs were tempered by Jobs' hardass attitude.

Apple on occasion innovates and then sits on their laurels for a long time. The original iPhone with gorilla glass was HUGE. Until then, all smart phones used plastic screens and had pressure based touch interfaces. The screens got scratched easy and ere easily broken. It was because of Apple and Steve Jobs, as well as many chinese engineers, that figured out how to correctly cut gorilla glass small enough to use on a phone. Corning couldn't figure out how to do it with their product at all. That was a huge break through in smart phone technology. Massive innovation.

Later, having a nice camera on a smart phone that was equivalent to any pocket snap shot dedicated camera was huge. It put apps like Instagram on the map. Speaking of which the App store was an amazing innovation. I used to use windows 6.1 mobile for smart phones way back in the past. Finding application to install was a major PITA if you weren't a complete and total geek into this stuff.

But since then, Apple has rested on it's laurels. The upgrades since basically the 3GS have been only incremental in nature. Hey it happens. Truthfully, I don't think there is going to be much of a break through innovation wise needed for smart phones unless we get something super futuristic like we see in movies with holographic projection or something like that. Even that I doubt will be good.

Apple right now is just keeping up with Android in terms of upgrade changes. There isn't any doubt to that, but at least they are still putting out a good product. A bit over priced in my opinion, but good none the less. They are basically charging for brand name at this point similar to designer jeans.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Really? I thought that the 5-5s leap wasn't really worthwhile at all.

Yes, you get a faster processor and a fingerprint reader.

But the A6 is more than enough for such a small screen. A7 made a ton of sense for the ipad, but for the iphone it is meh.

fingerprint reader is nice, but not really important imo.

Same RAM, same form factor, same screen.
 

sgrinavi

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2007
4,537
0
76
That's what I'm reading. It will only be available for ApplePay use. It won't be open to other apps.

While I want to be outraged and *rabble rabble rabble apple baaddd rabble rabble rabble!"...

I just struggle to be. Other than the gimmicky file beam does an initial pairing with NFC how many people really do any NFC stuff with their phones? I've seen a few people do some programming of NFC tags to stick them at work or at home to unlock their phones. But that is really it. It's not a tech that has really caught on for anything significant.

So yeah, while nature of of the move annoys me, the real world impact doesn't.

I'm sure they'll utilize NFC for other purposes once they release some devices & services that can use it. Need something "new" for next year.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,634
6,509
126
does the normal nfc stuff with google wallet do the whole "one time temporary credit card number" thing that apple pay does?
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
You know what would be a neat place to incorporate NFC? MacBooks. Imagine being able to do your online shopping with Apple Pay? Convenient and secure. No more creating (and having to remember) accounts on every site, or having to type in your CC info (convenience and security benefits).

I know there would be a lot of hurdles to get something like that working, but it would be neat, and the NFC chip could be used for other functions between iPhone and MacBook. Apple's unique position as both hardware and software vendor for both their phones and their laptops means they're the only ones who could really pull it off, and that would be an advantage over all of their competitors (I guess Google could also do it with Android devices and Chromebooks).
 
Last edited:

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
You know what would be a neat place to incorporate NFC? MacBooks. Imagine being able to do your online shopping with Apple Pay? Convenient and secure. No more creating (and having to remember) accounts on every site, or having to type in your CC info (convenience and security benefits).

I know there would be a lot of hurdles to get something like that working, but it would be neat, and the NFC chip could be used for other functions between iPhone and MacBook. Apple's unique position as both hardware and software vendor for both their phones and their laptops means they're the only ones who could really pull it off, and that would be an advantage over all of their competitors (I guess Google could also do it with Android devices and Chromebooks).

I agree.

I really want to see credit cards disrupted. I feel bad for merchants who get squeezed by CC companies. The CC companies have way too much market power.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Really? I thought that the 5-5s leap wasn't really worthwhile at all.

Yes, you get a faster processor and a fingerprint reader.

But the A6 is more than enough for such a small screen. A7 made a ton of sense for the ipad, but for the iphone it is meh.

fingerprint reader is nice, but not really important imo.

Same RAM, same form factor, same screen.

The cpu processing power jump the A7 has over the previous A6 chip is huge. Even for a small screen. Same with the bump to 1gb of ram over 512mb when going up from the 4 series. There were many complaints with iOS7 with slow downs, particularly with Safari tabs, with iPhones. Which is why many people are looking to upgrade in the first place around here. The performance difference between the A7 and the A6 has been shown to be almost a 100% increase in benchmarks. By comparison those same benchmarks show the A8 to only have at max a 6% performance increase over the A7.

There is also the finger print reader for the 5s over the 5. Also there was a camera upgrade in terms of sensor size, aperture size, and many camera software tweaks. The front camera has some upgrades too.

Also the 5s has a MUCH bigger battery and thus battery life over the 5 putting it on par with the batteries in the 6 series.

So with the performance difference and battery life difference between the 5s and 6 a wash, the only major differences are the NFC payment capabilities as well as the bigger screen. That and the rounded edges to the form factor.

Which is why many I know that have a 5s aren't looking to upgrade yet to a 6. Those with anything on the A6 or older chips are looking for an upgrade for at least the performance reasons.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
I'm using an itouch 5g and it handles web surfing fine. It is even slower than the a6 and has less RAM. It does crash too often, which I blame on the RAM situation

Camera is worth noting, but isn't a reason enough IMO.

battery was much bigger?
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
I'm using an itouch 5g and it handles web surfing fine. It is even slower than the a6 and has less RAM. It does crash too often, which I blame on the RAM situation

Camera is worth noting, but isn't a reason enough IMO.

battery was much bigger?

http://www.technobuffalo.com/2013/12/21/watch-how-much-faster-the-iphone-5s-than-the-iphone-4/

From things like boot up time, to lag for loading apps, the 5s is noticeably faster than previous gen chips. Some people notice the lag and it bugs them. Some of the newer gaming apps have noticeable jitter and lag now on the older iphones.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/iphone-5s_Mobile-Phone_review_performance-and-battery-life_Page-4

Then there is the crash problems you reported as well as just screen load times in Safari which are both mem and cpu related.

The 5s was a significant upgrade to performance over every iphone prior to it. The 6 is not a significant performance upgrade to the 5s at all.

Since there isn't a performance upgrade that would be noticeable to the average user, many people I know prefer the smaller screen size of the 5s over the newer larger screens of the 6 series. Hence the reason those I know with the 5s aren't looking to jump the 6 right now.
 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
9,427
16
81
You know what would be a neat place to incorporate NFC? MacBooks. Imagine being able to do your online shopping with Apple Pay? Convenient and secure. No more creating (and having to remember) accounts on every site, or having to type in your CC info (convenience and security benefits).
Eh? Google Checkout already exists. Hell, between that, Amazon, and Paypal I've stopped making new accounts.

I really want to see credit cards disrupted. I feel bad for merchants who get squeezed by CC companies. The CC companies have way too much market power.
You're looking at it backwards. This just means they'll get squeezed by the CC companies *and* Apple (or Google, or Amazon, or whatever).
 

dawheat

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
3,132
93
91
I agree.

I really want to see credit cards disrupted. I feel bad for merchants who get squeezed by CC companies. The CC companies have way too much market power.

Huh? Nothing Apple is doing is 'disrupting' the credit card industry. The tokenized cards and stronger online authentication are all through Visa, MasterCard, and AMEX and will be extended to other payment services over time.

The fees that merchants pay are by far made up of the interchange fee that your card issuer charges (Citi, Chase, BofA, etc), mostly to fund reward program and fraud. The networks get cents on the transaction. As a consumer, you prefer to have lesser or no reward programs on your cards to reduce merchant fees?

The network model IMO benefits customers b/c card issuers are forced to compete with each other on a level playing field to gain your business. A Citi MasterCard is accepted everywhere a tiny credit union MasterCard. Instead they're forced to provide rewards, bonsues, free protection, etc to gain your business. The worst thing to happen would be for a single entity (say Apple or PayPal in the future) to gain large market share b/c they'd have no incentive to compete against themselves.
 
Last edited:

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
Eh? Google Checkout already exists. Hell, between that, Amazon, and Paypal I've stopped making new accounts.

You're looking at it backwards. This just means they'll get squeezed by the CC companies *and* Apple (or Google, or Amazon, or whatever).

I feel like people would appreciate only storing their sensitive info on a single service rather than a multitude. Also you don't need to remember (or type in) account info for all those services, you just tap and pay.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
As for battery comparisons for current gen phones

http://www.gsmarena.com/battery-test.php3

The 5s is a significant upgrade to battery life over the 4 series and a little bump form the base 5 model. The 6 series is looking to have a decent extension to stand by and talk time, but not so much for everything else.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Huh? Nothing Apple is doing is 'disrupting' the credit card industry. The tokenized cards and stronger online authentication are all through Visa, MasterCard, and AMEX and will be extended to other payment services over time.

The fees that merchants pay are by far made up of the interchange fee that your card issuer charges (Citi, Chase, BofA, etc), mostly to fund reward program and fraud. The networks get cents on the transaction. As a consumer, you prefer to have lesser or no reward programs on your cards to reduce merchant fees?

The network model IMO benefits customers b/c card issuers are forced to compete with each other on a level playing field to gain your business. A Citi MasterCard is accepted everywhere a tiny credit union MasterCard. Instead they're forced to provide rewards, bonsues, free protection, etc to gain your business. The worst thing to happen would be for a single entity (say Apple or PayPal in the future) to gain large market share b/c they'd have no incentive to compete against themselves.

I am aware that Apple is partnering with CC companies that already exist...the issue is that for a new payment system to come into being the hard part is getting terminals in all retail outlets. There's little reason for most people to switch to a new method. The Apple Pay system offers extra convenience and security. This opens the door for a new payment system somewhere down the line. Especially since with widespread Apple Pay adoption I'd expect it to open the door for other NFC payment methods, since the hardware will be in place.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
http://www.technobuffalo.com/2013/12/21/watch-how-much-faster-the-iphone-5s-than-the-iphone-4/

From things like boot up time, to lag for loading apps, the 5s is noticeably faster than previous gen chips. Some people notice the lag and it bugs them. Some of the newer gaming apps have noticeable jitter and lag now on the older iphones.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/iphone-5s_Mobile-Phone_review_performance-and-battery-life_Page-4

Then there is the crash problems you reported as well as just screen load times in Safari which are both mem and cpu related.

The 5s was a significant upgrade to performance over every iphone prior to it. The 6 is not a significant performance upgrade to the 5s at all.

Since there isn't a performance upgrade that would be noticeable to the average user, many people I know prefer the smaller screen size of the 5s over the newer larger screens of the 6 series. Hence the reason those I know with the 5s aren't looking to jump the 6 right now.

Dude, I'm talking 5 vs 5s. The link you show has the 5 being a hair slower than the 5s. It is noticeable but not a huge deal.

For web browsing the 5s will give you 10 hours vs 9 hours approximately on the 5c.

It is significant upgrade over the 4 and 4s, no doubt, but over the 5 not significant enough. That's why I say it matters more for iPads than iPhones.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Dude, I'm talking 5 vs 5s. The link you show has the 5 being a hair slower than the 5s. It is noticeable but not a huge deal.

For web browsing the 5s will give you 10 hours vs 9 hours approximately on the 5c.

It is significant upgrade over the 4 and 4s, no doubt, but over the 5 not significant enough. That's why I say it matters more for iPads than iPhones.

What??
http://www.phonearena.com/news/The-...-benchmarked-shows-modest-improvement_id60701

The 5s is significantly faster than the 5. The first link in my previous post shows test times for boot times and load times where the 5s trumps all the previous phones including the 5.

The first sentence in the second link is as follows

The iPhone 5S is a significant step up in terms of power and performance over the iPhone 5.

Did you even read the articles I linked? I was specifically talking about how much faster the 5s is over the 5 and how insignificant the 6 series is in performance over the 5s.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
Eh, Apple has done the "tick/tock" upgrade cycle the last couple go rounds.

Tick = new gen look with updated form and last gen guts
Tock = last gen form and updated guts

Next time this year we'll be bitching about how they look the same and glazing over how much performance updates they did under the hood.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
What??
http://www.phonearena.com/news/The-...-benchmarked-shows-modest-improvement_id60701

The 5s is significantly faster than the 5. The first link in my previous post shows test times for boot times and load times where the 5s trumps all the previous phones including the 5.

The first sentence in the second link is as follows



Did you even read the articles I linked? I was specifically talking about how much faster the 5s is over the 5 and how insignificant the 6 series is in performance over the 5s.

I watched the video.

No doubt the a7 crushes in synthetic benchmarks , but rl usage it is not a huge advantage.
 
Feb 19, 2001
20,155
23
81
Eh? Google Checkout already exists. Hell, between that, Amazon, and Paypal I've stopped making new accounts.

You're looking at it backwards. This just means they'll get squeezed by the CC companies *and* Apple (or Google, or Amazon, or whatever).
Let's be honest. How many sites actually have Google Checkout? But yes, you have a point. PayPal seems to do the best job out there by being available on the most number of merchant sites.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
I watched the video.

No doubt the a7 crushes in synthetic benchmarks , but rl usage it is not a huge advantage.

RL usage? Uhh, there are several games recently released and soon to be released that are hard to play if not impossible on the older A6 series chips and prior iPhones. True not everyone plays games, but the more you want to do with your phone beyond phone calls, the more processing power the device is going to require.

Just because yo use your phone for simple things like calling, texting, web surfing, and the occasional youtube video doesn't mean that is what everyone uses their phone for.

Which is why the demand has grown for most part for larger screen sizes world wide. Most people no longer use the phone for basic tasks. Which is part of why smart phones are much more popular over regular cell phones.

As stated, many people also do notice start up lag with apps on iPhones. As well as crashes when they happen due to hardware performance problems.

Most of the people I know wanting to upgrade to the 6 all have A6 or slower iPhones. They are sick of slowdowns on some of the newer stuff they are trying to do and want a faster phone. For some reason they hadn't jumped to the 5s, maybe because they didn't realize how much faster it was over the 5 or previous gen phones, and were hoping the 6 would be the performance bump they were hoping for.

It is far more than synthetic benchmarks that the a7 and a8 cpus show their prowess over the a6.