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That pesky Constitution

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The president could matter, if Biden had more of a sack. The supreme court would be super-sized and all of those other fun things we dream about. I can tell you that when a guy like Trump gets in, he does what he wants regardless of how the majority of the country feels about it. Democrats spend too much time worrying about the optics of things and if the other side thinks they are being fair. The Dems need politicians with some sack, people to get the job done whatever it takes, and let the others whine about it later. They are going to take grief for whatever tiny little thing they now as it is, may as well advance an agenda to help America while you're at it.
while i don't disagree, dems care about optics because there is a massive double standard for them. if they pulled what trump did, they'd get obliterated in the polls the following election. you think fox news is bad now? what do you think would happen if biden engaged with a foreign leader (say, either from japan or south korea, who are visiting camp david down the road from me) to fabricate evidence on the republican candidate for the following election?
 
Gridlock would still be a massive win compared to Trump getting back in office. Or Desantis. I'll take what I can get. First Biden has to survive that long and the economy can't take a nosedive (which surely the GOP and buddies like the Saudis will be attempting.)

Polls mean crap right now. I give Trump even odds of being the next President if neither he nor Biden has a medical issue but nobody knows.
Except...if the (R)s hold the house, it will be a never-ending stream of "Impeach Joe Biden!" for whatever reason.
 
Kind of like when the Bidens took $10 million dollars to use their influence on behalf of a Ukrainian oil company? Or when Hunter collected millions as a lawyer for the Ukrainian oil company despite having zero experience in the industry much less a foreign oil company?

I will be glad when Trump losses again so he goes away for good.
citations for that nonsense?

Also, perhaps you can compare and contrast your speculative bullshit with the actual malfeasance one by the Trump Crime Family while they were in office as wel as after they were voted out. Remember, Hunter never held a political positions and there is ZERO evidence Joe Biden participated in Hunter's dealings. In fact, the "key person" said that Joe NEVER was involved in Hunter's business.

Perhaps you can start by blathering about the ACTUAL $2 BILLION Jared ACTUALLY got. That's like 10x of all the stuff you think that Hunter (not THE Bidens) got. Maybe you can dig up the threads where you condemned Donald Trump for using his hotels to get money from foreiegn officials WHILE he was in office. We know he never divested himself of his holdings or business while president.

You happily lap up the fake news and possibility of illegal shit for anyone who is a Democrat but ignore the FACTS and ACTUAL events when it is Republicans doing the illegal things. Why is that? People who can't see this are truly broken.
 
I'm trying to figure something out, please let me know your thoughts. When he burst on the presidential scene he was the anti politician, an outsider, businessman, told his followers exactly what they wanted to hear. But he also brought lots of baggage with him.

So now the republicans candidates love his ideas, rules etc and they all want to emulate him. So why can't they leave him, move onto other candidates that will shout the same rhetoric without all the outside distractions?
Because ppl think a business man can run the country like they run a Corp.
Or their rose tinted glasses of the WWE are so thick they think he really is there to save them.

I've said it before and will again. A Business man should NOT be president. Because our country is not run like a corporation.

There's 500+ other ppl that have a say in what goes down. CEO thinks they are king.

Edit: fix typos
 
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Because ppl think a business man can run the country like they run a Corp.
Or their rose tinted glasses of the WWE are so thick they think he really is there to save them.

I've said it before and will again. A Business man should NOT be president. Because our country is not run like a corporation.

There 500+ other ppl that have a day in what goes down. CEO thinks they are king.


Business people, especially those that run for political office, are instinctually programmed to make a profit from their efforts. So in the case of being elected and acquiring the stature and influence the position brings, well it's safe to say it's what these business folks were after to begin with and it wasn't because they wanted to give the commoners of the nation a better chance at accomplishing their dreams of having prosperous and meaningful lives or giving their children a better chance at it. It's the selfishness and capitalistic greed that these opportunists are compelled to satisfy. It's all they want and are there in gov't jobs to make happen.

Each and every one of them are Trump incarnates and most if not all of them inhabit the GOP leadership that promotes such behavior as their actual existence as a political entity relies on it. And to top all of that off, they've got over 70 million willful accomplices to do their bidding.

It's why Sinema and Manchin are compelled to leave the Democrat Party and go over to where they actually belong. These two corporate owned shills were attacking the very party they pled their faith to from the inside out. The interference they ran for the GOP was damaging beyond the pale and now that they've exposed themselves for who they actually represent, well they've found the need to leave the party they betrayed or face losing their jobs. This is what their greed begat them and this is what the GOP stands for in all of its sordid glory.
 
citations for that nonsense?

Also, perhaps you can compare and contrast your speculative bullshit with the actual malfeasance one by the Trump Crime Family while they were in office as wel as after they were voted out. Remember, Hunter never held a political positions and there is ZERO evidence Joe Biden participated in Hunter's dealings. In fact, the "key person" said that Joe NEVER was involved in Hunter's business.

Perhaps you can start by blathering about the ACTUAL $2 BILLION Jared ACTUALLY got. That's like 10x of all the stuff you think that Hunter (not THE Bidens) got. Maybe you can dig up the threads where you condemned Donald Trump for using his hotels to get money from foreiegn officials WHILE he was in office. We know he never divested himself of his holdings or business while president.

You happily lap up the fake news and possibility of illegal shit for anyone who is a Democrat but ignore the FACTS and ACTUAL events when it is Republicans doing the illegal things. Why is that? People who can't see this are truly broken.
I guess you dont keep up with the news. But there is currently a House investigation of the Biden's dealings in Ukraine.
 
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Because ppl think a business man can run the country like they run a Corp.
Or their rose tinted glasses of the WWE are so thick they think he really is there to save them.

I've said it before and will again. A Business man should NOT be president. Because our country is not run like a corporation.

There 500+ other ppl that have a day in what goes down. CEO thinks they are king.

I dont care if we elect a businessman, a clergyman or Joe the plumber (anyone but Trump). I just want the border secured and criminals dealt with.
 
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I started reading The Federalist Papers, written by Alexander Hamilton (evidently with some help from a couple other guys, but I think Hamilton was the main mind scribbler, and he writes in the first person. How the hell did he do it???). I downloaded the free Gutenberg file and am reading it on my Kindle Paperwhite. What's amazing about it is that things have not changed at all. Human nature is the same. The Federalist Papers were evidently a think tank type document cooked up in preparation for writing and subsequent ratification of The Constitution of The United States of America. Utterly brilliant! :colbert: The idea was to create a bedrock, ....to shift the metaphor, to give the ship of state a keel and a rudder to help the nation survive the vicissitudes, the storms and shoals that would inevitably develop over Time.
 
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I dont care if we elect a businessman, a clergyman or Joe the plumber (anyone but Trump). I just want the border secured and criminals dealt with.

But the entirety of the party you vote for are criminals because they seduce you with their propaganda!

Not exactly a smart way of dealing with the problem..

FFS.. do you honestly think Trump's wall ever worked? It was a scam, is a scam if it fell apart overnight after Biden took office since you like to blame Biden.

Only way to stop it is to integrate Mexico in some sort of treaty/ alliance and incentivize them to block off their southern border.
 
I dont care if we elect a businessman, a clergyman or Joe the plumber (anyone but Trump). I just want the border secured and criminals dealt with.
Them buoys and razor wire hidden in the Rio Grande is working isn't it? Or what did they call it, a funnel? To guide people to the appropriate crossings?
Ironically it is costing more money for the medical treatment for the injuries occuring from the submerged "fence".

Kinda hard to deal with criminals when the criminals can't decide who the criminals are and which criminals are supposed to catch the criminals, then which criminal is going to penalize and sentence the other criminal.
Wait, what kind of criminals are we talking about? Think we need to define criminals.
 
I dont care if we elect a businessman, a clergyman or Joe the plumber (anyone but Trump). I just want the border secured and criminals dealt with.

Surely you do realize that there are so many higher priorities other than securing the border that the working class folks of America are more deeply concerned with? And if dealing with criminals is the other priority of yours then you must be very interested in seeking convictions for every Jan. 6 insurrectionist, Trump the Instigator-in-Chief, the Republican legislators and those corporate business interests who financially enabled his efforts toward illegally keeping himself in office yes?
 
Good way to end up in an authoritarian regime. If both sides do it, neither is perceived as better than the other, so why not vote for the trumpy one.

It's a stretch I know it, but as long as you're satisfied you've done your best for the country then the people can decide if they want an autocrat or not. I firmly believe that the majority people actually want policy that benefits them and equalizes the chances to succeed in this country. Screw the one third that don't, we all know they'd never win an election again if the majority ruled.
 
Unless the Dems regain control of the House...and retain control of the Senate, getting Biden re-elected (or whomever in his stead) won't matter much. The (R)s have shown numerous times their willingness to grind government to a halt to get their way...or at least to stop Dems from passing anything.

Surely the underlying problem is that the Constitution contains an implicit death-spiral?

The nature of the Senate means that there's a built-in-bias towards voters from sparsely-populated rural, predominantly white, states. It seems as if this is only going to get worse, as population trends continue (I read that at the time the country was founded the largest state had about 10 times the population of the smallest, and now that's closer to a factor of 100).

You can then add in the filibuster (which, as I understand it, was created entirely by accident in a botched reform of the house rules) to make it worse.

And then there's the Electoral College (which, as it partly depends on the Senate for its numerical basis, shares that body's biases - in fact it has two flaws, on the one hand erasing any minority group within a state, because of the winner-takes-all way it tends to be applied, and on the other, replicating the bias towards certain states of the Senate).

And then there's the Supreme Court, appointments to which are 'gatekept' by that same skewed senate, and which seems to have decided to become an entirely political body, with no hint of shame about that 'legislating from the bench'. And which in turn then gets to facilitate gerrymandering at the state level.

As long as the skew in the Senate continues to worsen, the whole thing seems like a near-unbreakable self-reinforcing mechanism for sustaining an old-rural-white-guy oligarchy.

I don't see how the future can be anything other than more-and-worse Trumps, unless something drastic is done to break that death-spiral before it's too late (like court packing, or creating new states, or some massive demographic project to move lots of liberal-leaning voters to Texas and 'flip' it)
 
Surely the underlying problem is that the Constitution contains an implicit death-spiral?

The nature of the Senate means that there's a built-in-bias towards voters from sparsely-populated rural, predominantly white, states. It seems as if this is only going to get worse, as population trends continue (I read that at the time the country was founded the largest state had about 10 times the population of the smallest, and now that's closer to a factor of 100).

You can then add in the filibuster (which, as I understand it, was created entirely by accident in a botched reform of the house rules) to make it worse.

And then there's the Electoral College (which, as it partly depends on the Senate for its numerical basis, shares that body's biases - in fact it has two flaws, on the one hand erasing any minority group within a state, because of the winner-takes-all way it tends to be applied, and on the other, replicating the bias towards certain states of the Senate).

And then there's the Supreme Court, appointments to which are 'gatekept' by that same skewed senate, and which seems to have decided to become an entirely political body, with no hint of shame about that 'legislating from the bench'. And which in turn then gets to facilitate gerrymandering at the state level.

As long as the skew in the Senate continues to worsen, the whole thing seems like a near-unbreakable self-reinforcing mechanism for sustaining an old-rural-white-guy oligarchy.

I don't see how the future can be anything other than more-and-worse Trumps, unless something drastic is done to break that death-spiral before it's too late (like court packing, or creating new states, or some massive demographic project to move lots of liberal-leaning voters to Texas and 'flip' it)
I think it's more that it is used by by the 1% to maintain tax free profits with political bribes to those old white guys to facilitate that action. An alternative solution might be waking up rural folk to the fact that the party they are voting for is the same party that is fucking them. Democrats, I think, should focus on how rural whites fuck themselves and provide an alternative rather than blaming them for their stupidity, which, in my opinion, is just another form of stupidity.
 
I think the first time I brought this up by quoting the disqualification clause of the 14A was well over 2 years ago. Finally legal scholars are saying it. Including the Federalist Society.

It's not even a close case. There really isn't much ambiguity in the clause itself. Unless what is currently in the public record regarding Trump's conduct on 1/6 and prior turns out to be inaccurate, there isn't much ambiguity as to whether it applies to him either.

I don't think a criminal conviction is really necessary to make the 14a operative here, but the bottom line is I doubt anyone tries to make the argument in court unless or until he's convicted of the 1/6 charges. Which may be too late.
 
Does it require implementing legislation or criminal trials (or impeachments) before its disqualification kicks in? How does Section Three interact with the rest of the constitutional order?

So .... according to these "legal scholars" from the Federalist Society no legal findings or legislation is necessary to carry out a disqualification. I’m not sure public opinion would support such a disqualification without legal findings against someone to make it official?

Section three is self-executing - That is, Section Three’s disqualification is constitutionally automatic whenever its terms are satisfied. Section Three requires no legislation or adjudication to be legally effective….[No] prior judicial decision, and no implementing legislation, is required for Section Three to be carried out by officials sworn to uphold the Constitution whose duties present the occasion for applying Section Three’s commands.


Well ... IMO This opinion is no different from a zillion other law review articles. People can argue any point they want and back it up with tons of case law and constitutional interpretation. None it means squat until a judge takes a case and makes a ruling. Now, don't get me wrong....I would love if the Republicans challengers lead this charge, it can only be good news for the Democrats. Which I why I assume most won’t. Maybe Christie? Any right-wing opposition to Trump is like finding chicken teeth in your nuggets. Rare and probably valuable for something. Nevertheless, unilateral extrajudicial action is exactly what Trump says he’ll do if he’s elected. This argument by the professors is good fodder for discussion, but not much more unless some lawyer decides to try it out in court somewhere, I would think...ALTHOUGH, the amendment was specifically intended to block Confederate officers from holding office. None of them were charged or convicted. Why should Trump need to be?

One interesting thing this article/opinion suggests to me is that the Federalist Society has determined there is no way Trump can win the Presidency in 2024, so they need to get another GOP candidate elected to carry out their court-packing agenda. And keeping Trump off the ballot in the presidential election. It would have a huge effect on all downballot races as many MAGAS would be very likely to stay at home. Trump being off the ballot should be default (in a rational world).
 
Does it hurt? Being that fucking stupid, I mean? Or do you go about your day convinced you are right in your mind, and everyone else with actual proof is just lying. Either way, scientists should study you.

believe me, we have plenty of adequate model systems for studying neurons and brain development.

someone like Felix is a waste of time and resources when we already have mice. And, honestly, fruit flies.
 
I guess you dont keep up with the news. But there is currently a House investigation of the Biden's dealings in Ukraine.

It's not an investigation. It's a public hearing--the only thing Republicans can do when they know their zealot followers are as fucking dumb as they recruited them to be.

but you are a dumb fucking cvnt so you swallow this shit up as much as you swallow up Trump's brown juice.
 
I guess you dont keep up with the news. But there is currently a House investigation of the Biden's dealings in Ukraine.
You realize the GOP led house uses investigations as a way to stir the base and smear their opponents? You can investigate infinitely, never find anything and just say oh but we're investigating. What did the Benghazi investigation yield?

You keep speculating about illicit Biden dealings with Ukraine but have yet to give one shred of evidence. You have yet to even give one clear accusation such as Biden paid x for x services and that is bad or Biden gave them x in return for x. You just keep speculating there was something there with vague assertions of quid pro quo activities without actually stating what the quids and pros are...if Biden broke the law so openly, why aren't Republican attorney generals like Ken Paxton nailing him? Why isn't desantis sending the Florida federal attorney generals to come after Biden? They have every reason to do so...
 
Is that what you are calling a HOR clown show?
You realize the GOP led house uses investigations as a way to stir the base and smear their opponents? You can investigate infinitely, never find anything and just say oh but we're investigating. What did the Benghazi investigation yield?

You keep speculating about illicit Biden dealings with Ukraine but have yet to give one shred of evidence. You have yet to even give one clear accusation such as Biden paid x for x services and that is bad or Biden gave them x in return for x. You just keep speculating there was something there with vague assertions of quid pro quo activities without actually stating what the quids and pros are...if Biden broke the law so openly, why aren't Republican attorney generals like Ken Paxton nailing him? Why isn't desantis sending the Florida federal attorney generals to come after Biden? They have every reason to do so...
We must get to the bottom of Biden's dirty dealings.

But this thread is about Trump. I think he is disqualified from holding office now.
 
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