That day Elon Musk almost certainly committed a felony... (yesterday)

[Brainonska511]

Pre-orders are over 150K already I think.

I'd take the preorder figures with a heaping pile of salt, since it you can preorder with just a $100 deposit.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Yeah, at first I was like WTF is the ugly POS. But I looked at more pictures and some specs and it has actually grown on me.

Its less about "ugly" (which honestly I think for trucks people prefer ugly), its that it looks similar to the design I did for a high school shop class, all sharp angles and . It is bafflingly basic with regards to design, and in a way that makes no sense (i.e. the design isn't "rugged" for the sake of appearing rugged). The point at the rooftop for instance is just bizarre. Its not like you couldn't round or square it off and make it still look rugged). It seems to have been done for some aero, but pretty sure that's not optimal aerodynamically, and while I guess that weird bed cover slides up there, its not like they couldn't round that off. Which would be better for practicality (more rear passenger headroom, higher bed cover).

And other bits about it just makes me feel like they let some weird version of Homer design it.

Pre-orders are over 150K already I think.

And that has what to do with my post? Pontiac sold over 100k Azteks, and there's plenty of other vehicles that had flawed designs that still sold well (hell there's cars that had flawed designs, flawed engineering, and were just not good cars that still sold). There's no doubt Tesla knows how to make a good electric powertrain, and the pricing is decent and pickups are like 3 of the top 5 selling vehicles in the US. I still think its a half-assed design that they tried too hard to make stand out, and that its to the detriment of the vehicle's practicality as well as design. Just more of Musk's weirdness, where he seems willing to do something stupid just because it reminds him of some futuristic vision or to say he could.

Heck, even if you like the general shape or certain "trick" aspects to it (like the cover and tailgate/rail system), there's just so many aspects that look like the first product of a company, and not one that's on like the 5th vehicle they're making. Compare it to the semi or any other Tesla, and the design is thoroughly lacking, and not because they figured out some new way to minimalize the design.

This reminds me of the DeLorean in a lot of ways. Terrible design that will become famous partly because of how mediocre the design is for the hype. At least the truck will have a powertrain that makes that more moot. I'm really starting to wonder if Musk hasn't been following in Jon's footsteps though.

Its like Rivian beat Tesla to the punch so they decided to go for controversy instead. Which is stupid as anything they did was going to be controversial, and they could still do the usual bits (like the silly tug of war). Which, didn't Musk say it was going to be big enough to carry a full sized pickup in the bed? Now it can barely fit a customized 4 wheeler?

 

[Nereus77]

With a name like Cybertruck it was always going to be niche, but Musk die-hards seem to be "in on the joke" so to speak and ordering it anyway. To me, its a vehicle that makes little to no sense and I hope that Tesla are working on a proper offering to the pick-up space (but I actually doubt it). Stuff like this makes the market look at Tesla like they're a joke. I mean, if Rivian deliver a proper electric pickup then Tesla's effort will look like a low grade, impractical, poor effort.

For sure, the DeLorean comparison is totally justified, but at least Tesla have other actual decent offerings in the normal passenger car market. Its just a pity that they are missing out on a major chunk of the pickup market.

Its a heck of a concept car though, I'll give them that.

 

[cytg111]

If I had a place to recharge it I would be all over that truck. In my favor though is that I dont really care what color, brand or look I drive .. If the specs are good, milage etc, it could be pink and formed like whatever, so the exterior the "cyber" design dont bother me at all : dont care!
The specs though. Damn.

 

[Bitek]

Yeah, at first I was like WTF is the ugly POS. But I looked at more pictures and some specs and it has actually grown on me.

If I had a place to recharge it I would be all over that truck. In my favor though is that I dont really care what color, brand or look I drive .. If the specs are good, milage etc, it could be pink and formed like whatever, so the exterior the "cyber" design dont bother me at all : dont care!
The specs though. Damn.

I too was shocked at the design, but looked at the specs, then did some more reading into it, and I'm blown away. It's a freaking beast at $40k and $70k for a truck that does 0-60 faster than a 911 is insane.

I am impressed by the fact that Musk didn't just take the same tired "truck" design from the last 90 years, electrify it, give it a Tesla grill and call it a day.

It's really a radically new format for a utility vehicle lead by design thinking that packs a hell of a lot of value if they can pull it off. I don't think it's potential is understood yet. Think og iPhone at launch.

Could be huge for municipal fleets.

I think it can actually create a lot of new business models, esp if the self driving ai can work well enough.

What's the lifespan of the truck? The motors should run forever, but can the batteries last decades and can the body not rust out from road salt?

Tell me yes then take my money.

 

[ponyo]

I too was shocked at the design, but looked at the specs, then did some more reading into it, and I'm blown away. It's a freaking beast at $40k and $70k for a truck that does 0-60 faster than a 911 is insane.

I am impressed by the fact that Musk didn't just take the same tired "truck" design from the last 90 years, electrify it, give it a Tesla grill and call it a day.

It's really a radically new format for a utility vehicle lead by design thinking that packs a hell of a lot of value if they can pull it off. I don't think it's potential is understood yet. Think og iPhone at launch.

Could be huge for municipal fleets.

I think it can actually create a lot of new business models, esp if the self driving ai can work well enough.

What's the lifespan of the truck? The motors should run forever, but can the batteries last decades and can the body not rust out from road salt?

Tell me yes then take my money.

Police, fire, and first responders are all going to love the Cybertruck. And general public will love the Cybertruck as they get used to the design. It’s brilliant truck and vehicle with all kinds of advantages. I love the stock 35 inch tires.

The lifespan of this truck should be forever. The motors and the battery are both rated for one million miles. The stainless steel body should be amazing tough. No more worrying about scratches, dents, rocks or hail damage, and the body should be rust resistant since it’s stainless steel. This to me is the most practical and the best vehicle ever made and the only vehicle worthy to replace my Land Cruiser. In fact, the Cybertruck is so good that it can replace both my Tundra truck and Land Cruiser. My Land Cruiser drinks gas and only gets 300 miles of range on full tank of gas. This Cybertruck is going to have comparable range and save me so much money on fuel over the life of the vehicle.

 

[WelshBloke]

Police, fire, and first responders are all going to love the Cybertruck. And general public will love the Cybertruck as they get used to the design. It’s brilliant truck and vehicle with all kinds of advantages. I love the stock 35 inch tires.

The lifespan of this truck should be forever. The motors and the battery are both rated for one million miles. The stainless steel body should be amazing tough. No more worrying about scratches, dents, rocks or hail damage, and the body should be rust resistant since it’s stainless steel. This to me is the most practical and the best vehicle ever made and the only vehicle worthy to replace my Land Cruiser. In fact, the Cybertruck is so good that it can replace both my Tundra truck and Land Cruiser. My Land Cruiser drinks gas and only gets 300 miles of range on full tank of gas. This Cybertruck is going to have comparable range and save me so much money on fuel over the life of the vehicle.

You're very sold on a vehicle that isn't for sale yet, that we dont know what its going to be like when its actually released (a lot will end up changing just for regulatory reasons), and that doesn't have any independent reviews (as its not released).

 

[ponyo]

You're very sold on a vehicle that isn't for sale yet, that we dont know what its going to be like when its actually released (a lot will end up changing just for regulatory reasons), and that doesn't have any independent reviews (as its not released).

Tesla vehicles tend to live up to their specs. I’m sold because I know the history of Tesla. I fully trust them, and they will deliver a truck that’s just as good if not better than the current specs.

 

[WelshBloke]

Tesla vehicles tend to live up to their specs. I’m sold because I know the history of Tesla. I fully trust them, and they will deliver a truck that’s just as good if not better than the current specs.

True believer then?

 

[ponyo]

True believer then?

See my avatar?

 

[WelshBloke]

See my avatar?

I like that car though! That car looks nice!

 

[rstrohkirch]

 

[woolfe9998]

True believer then?

Doesn't exactly require anything akin to religious faith when it's a fact that Tesla cars have higher owner satisfaction ratings than any other cars.

Tesla owners are more satisfied than any other auto brand's, according to Consumer Reports

Tesla received 89 out of 100 possible points for its owner satisfaction rating, which represents an average of all of an auto brand's models.

www.businessinsider.com

That's evidence. No faith required.

 

[rstrohkirch]

Doesn't exactly require anything akin to religious faith when it's a fact that Tesla cars have higher owner satisfaction ratings than any other cars.

Tesla owners are more satisfied than any other auto brand's, according to Consumer Reports

Tesla received 89 out of 100 possible points for its owner satisfaction rating, which represents an average of all of an auto brand's models.

www.businessinsider.com

That's evidence. No faith required.

In the article you posted it states that their satisfaction is very high yet their reliability is not. For a traditional auto brand, doesn't that indicate a bit of faith or blindness on the consumer's end? I understand that the Model 3 is doing better in terms of reliability but I feel the article you posted does more to side with the other individuals point than your own.

 

[woolfe9998]

In the article you posted it states that their satisfaction is very high yet their reliability is not. For a traditional auto brand, doesn't that indicate a bit of faith or blindness on the consumer's end? I understand that the Model 3 is doing better in terms of reliability but I feel the article you posted does more to side with the other individuals point than your own.

Isn't overall user satisfaction the most important issue here? If people who own these cars, like these cars, more than any other cars, that would seem to be a pretty good argument supporting my point, which is not that Tesla cars are the best cars in the world, but that you needn't be operating on mere faith to like these cars.

That mechanical reliability ratings are lower than most cars is to be expected. Gas-powered and hybrid cars are very mature technologically at this point. EV's are still developing. I think it's damn impressive that a technology which is still maturing and experiencing inevitable reliability issues nevertheless has this degree of overall owner satisfaction. Since lower mechanical reliability ought to be a negative variable in user satisfaction, this suggests that they're getting absolutely everything else right, and that these cars will be peerless once reliability improves.

My point is that you needn't have a faith based or "fan boy" mentality to like Tesla cars. Because the owners like them, and they know better than anyone else what they're talking about. We can debate the pros and cons of Tesla vehicles but the user I replied to was being overly dismissive of those who have positive opinions of Teslas.

 

[thilanliyan]

That mechanical reliability ratings are lower than most cars is to be expected. Gas-powered and hybrid cars are very mature technologically at this point. EV's are still developing. I think it's damn impressive that a technology which is still maturing and experiencing inevitable reliability issues nevertheless has this degree of overall owner satisfaction. Since lower mechanical reliability ought to be a negative variable in user satisfaction, this suggests that they're getting absolutely everything else right, and that these cars will be peerless once reliability improves.

I don't think it's the drivetrain that is in question for Tesla reliability. It's a bunch of other stuff like door handles on Model S, paint quality, panel gaps on Model 3, UI screen, etc. I'm sure they are getting better though.

 

[rstrohkirch]

Isn't overall user satisfaction the most important issue here? If people who own these cars, like these cars, more than any other cars, that would seem to be a pretty good argument supporting my point, which is not that Tesla cars are the best cars in the world, but that you needn't be operating on mere faith to like these cars.

I also agree you don't have to be a fan boy to like Tesla or anything really. But if you have a product that falls more towards the bottom of reliability yet the overall satisfaction is very high then that would indicate that there is bias. Since this scenario doesn't seem to occur as much for other traditional automotive brands then I feel that that bias is there because it is a limited availability product. If people could choose from 5 other manufacturers producing like able electric cars then I feel that Tesla would have much less overall satisfaction.

So I guess my point is that Tesla is offering its customers something they want that other competitors at this time are not. Because of that, their customers are ignoring things that they normally would not in terms of vehicle satisfaction. Hence my reference to a perceived blindness on the consumers end.

 

[ponyo]

Bloomberg did Tesla Model 3 survey of 5,000 Tesla owners.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019-tesla-model-3-survey/

“Notwithstanding its initial flaws, Tesla owners raved about their cars. This is something of a paradox found repeatedly in the Bloomberg survey—many of those owners who dealt with defects in their new Model 3 gave the electric sedan high overall marks for satisfaction. They gave their highest ratings to its design, performance, and some of the unusual software features that help define Tesla’s brand. A nearly unanimous 99.6% of respondents said the Model 3 is a pleasure to drive, the kind of consensus rarely reached by any consumer product.”

“All problems have been cosmetic. Car drives like a champ.”

“The car feels like the future, I can never go back.”

 

[woolfe9998]

I also agree you don't have to be a fan boy to like Tesla or anything really. But if you have a product that falls more towards the bottom of reliability yet the overall satisfaction is very high then that would indicate that there is bias. Since this scenario doesn't seem to occur as much for other traditional automotive brands then I feel that that bias is there because it is a limited availability product. If people could choose from 5 other manufacturers producing like able electric cars then I feel that Tesla would have much less overall satisfaction.

So I guess my point is that Tesla is offering its customers something they want that other competitors at this time are not. Because of that, their customers are ignoring things that they normally would not in terms of vehicle satisfaction. Hence my reference to a perceived blindness on the consumers end.

You may be conflating "bias" with something that is an inherent and very real property of EV's - the fact that you're paying ~$25/month for electrical recharging instead of ~$250/month for gas, or ~$125 for gas if you own a hybrid. People like not paying for gas, especially here in CA where gas is over $4/gallon because of high gas taxes (meaning the high taxes are having their desired affect.)

And another issue which is easy to conflate with bias - that Tesla owners like the fact that their cars aren't polluting the environment and contributing to climate change nearly as much as gas powered or hybrids. That isn't bias either - it's a very real property of the vehicle that can legitimately contribute to owner satisfaction. Which suggests that when there are 5 other alternative EV's to Tesla, that instead of seeing a dramatic drop in Tesla satisfaction, you might instead see Tesla and all the other EV's having higher user satisfaction than all the gas powered and hybrid cars. That's not a product of bias unless you think that accepting what the scientific community is telling us about climate changed is bias.

But those inherent properties of EV's aren't the only factors which can contribute to owner satisfaction. Nor is the number of times a car ends up in the shop during its useful life the only other factor. There are a host of other factors which contribute: comfort, looks, features, cargo space, etc. And in user surveys like the one posted right above, you can see Tesla owners praising the cars for issues unrelated to it being an EV.

If you choose to believe that high satisfaction is a product of bias in the case of Tesla but not (or less so) in the case of other vehicles, you sound like the mirror image of the fan boy. For my part, when lots of people say they like their car, I tend to take them at their word.

 

[WelshBloke]

Isn't overall user satisfaction the most important issue here? If people who own these cars, like these cars, more than any other cars, that would seem to be a pretty good argument supporting my point, which is not that Tesla cars are the best cars in the world, but that you needn't be operating on mere faith to like these cars.

I mean I was only talking about the truck and the quote " I fully trust them, and they will deliver a truck that’s just as good if not better than the current specs." Which certainly indicates a certain level of belief.

But your passage above indicates more. That owners love the cars regardless of reliability indicates that owners are not eating their experience in an objective way.

 

[woolfe9998]

I mean I was only talking about the truck and the quote " I fully trust them, and they will deliver a truck that’s just as good if not better than the current specs." Which certainly indicates a certain level of belief.

But your passage above indicates more. That owners love the cars regardless of reliability indicates that owners are not eating their experience in an objective way.

Why? Because the number of times your car is in the shop is the only legitimate factor which affects user satisfaction? When was that established as the singular factor affecting how much an owner likes her car?

 

[m8d]

Elon Musk must be a big fan of GoldenEye double 007 on the N64.

 

[cytg111]

I for one have a dream... sit my ass in car and say : Car, drive me to work, then snooze for another 45 minutes. Oh my gawd.

 

[WelshBloke]

Why? Because the number of times your car is in the shop is the only legitimate factor which affects user satisfaction? When was that established as the singular factor affecting how much an owner likes her car?

My car gets me to and from places. If its broken down its failed at it's most basic task.

 

[dank69]

Elon Musk must be a big fan of GoldenEye double 007 on the N64.View attachment 13777

No way that is real