Texas says no gun licenses needed

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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,079
21,202
136
So I'm curious if you have any evidence that laws actually stop criminals. Hint: they're criminals.

You refuse to tackle the meat of the issue. If laws stop criminals from executing gun crimes. So let's talk about gun laws.

Exhibit A: Every other first world western democracy and their gun laws vs gun violence.

Do you have a counter to that?
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,118
10,942
136
I don’t see how going from a usually under $100 permit that they must issue to anyone who asks that isn’t a felon or otherwise legally disqualified to not needing said permit will drive more gun violence.

Easy access to guns plus a high level of inequality, poor health care on average, racism, etc will drive violence. Guns on their own, not very much.
one is just the availability. more guns in public means greater chance of gun usage in public. the barrier for a CWP might not be particularly high, but it's high enough (plus if you're doing CWP right, no one actually knows whether you're carrying in the first place. see point #2).

two, open-carry is generally going to be seen as intimidation provided you don't live in a rural area, because it's not a cultural norm. is it technically legal? yes. but who does it? virtually no one. i remember seeing a bunch of gun-toting folks marching in protest in downtown austin. i have no doubt what they were doing was technically legal. as far as i could tell, everyone was open-carrying a rifle or shotgun (CWPs usually apply to pistols) but i can almost guarantee you their presence didn't make anyone feel better or safer.

three, guns absolutely drive suicides, though i wouldn't expect an open carry law to change those rates in any meaningful way. putting a gun to your head is just too easy and effective (IIRC most people who fail suicide attempts never try again)
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,960
8,191
136
So it isn't a good idea that's why it is a good idea for Texas to enact? Explain that to us again?
Please point out where I said it was a good idea for Texas.

What I said was it really isn't an issue. It won't be a causation for more mass shootings, no more so than it has in 21 other states.

 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,410
3,183
146
one is just the availability. more guns in public means greater chance of gun usage in public. the barrier for a CWP might not be particularly high, but it's high enough (plus if you're doing CWP right, no one actually knows whether you're carrying in the first place. see point #2).

two, open-carry is generally going to be seen as intimidation provided you don't live in a rural area, because it's not a cultural norm. is it technically legal? yes. but who does it? virtually no one. i remember seeing a bunch of gun-toting folks marching in protest in downtown austin. i have no doubt what they were doing was technically legal. as far as i could tell, everyone was open-carrying a rifle or shotgun (CWPs usually apply to pistols) but i can almost guarantee you their presence didn't make anyone feel better or safer.

three, guns absolutely drive suicides, though i wouldn't expect an open carry law to change those rates in any meaningful way. putting a gun to your head is just too easy and effective (IIRC most people who fail suicide attempts never try again)

Fair to some extent on 1 and 3, but as for 2 this bill is for constitutional open and concealed carry. Permitless open carry of rifles was already allowed, and permitted open carry of handguns was also allowed. It's really just removing the fee and course. Surprised a bit that Texas even had a course.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
Fair to some extent on 1 and 3, but as for 2 this bill is for constitutional open and concealed carry. Permitless open carry of rifles was already allowed, and permitted open carry of handguns was also allowed. It's really just removing the fee and course. Surprised a bit that Texas even had a course.
Removing the course is the bigger issue IMHO. That will likely lead to more accidental deaths and negative interactions with police.

It also means that people that were too lazy to take the course, can now carry with no barrier, so effectively more guns out in public.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,960
8,191
136
You refuse to tackle the meat of the issue. If laws stop criminals from executing gun crimes. So let's talk about gun laws.

Exhibit A: Every other first world western democracy and their gun laws vs gun violence.

Do you have a counter to that?
Exactly how do you stop a criminal from breaking the law? Lock them up... well that is a stunning failure. The US has the largest percentage of citizens in prison of any country... so that's not working to well.

England has removed most guns from its society, and stabbings and cuttings are the next step. There is a movement in the UK to outlaw 'pointy' knives, and limit them only to chefs.

In 1996 Australia banned and bought back many types of guns. Gun related murder and suicide has gone down, but overall murder and suicide are rates are virtually unchanged, with suicide actually going up.

Criminals ain't going to change, and disarming honest citizens only empowers criminals. There are many self-defense uses of firearms, they just don't get the headlines, or the hysteria from anti-gun nuts.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,424
136
Exactly how do you stop a criminal from breaking the law? Lock them up... well that is a stunning failure. The US has the largest percentage of citizens in prison of any country... so that's not working to well.

England has removed most guns from its society, and stabbings and cuttings are the next step. There is a movement in the UK to outlaw 'pointy' knives, and limit them only to chefs.

In 1996 Australia banned and bought back many types of guns. Gun related murder and suicide has gone down, but overall murder and suicide are rates are virtually unchanged, with suicide actually going up.

Criminals ain't going to change, and disarming honest citizens only empowers criminals. There are many self-defense uses of firearms, they just don't get the headlines, or the hysteria from anti-gun nuts.

So what you are saying is that laws don’t work because people break laws, I guess that means we should get rid of all laws then right?

You might be a closet gun nutter. Lol
 
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Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,037
2,615
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Where did I mention the "purchase" of guns? How does the new Texas law have any effect on a persons' ability to purchase a gun?

Where did I say it was even a good idea?

Yes, the majority of mass shooters obtained their firearms legally. A higher percentage of people who murdered people by use of a weapon other than a firearm, knives, baseball bats, hammers, vehicles, etc. also obtained them legally.
If you continually believe there is nothing that can be done, then nothing will be done.

I mean we put a man on the moon, but can't do anything about gun violence. Yes countries like estonia have figured it out. Wealthiest most powerful country in the world can't solve a problem estonia has.
 
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MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,960
8,191
136
So what you are saying is that laws don’t work because people break laws, I guess that means we should get rid of all laws then right?

You might be a closet gun nutter. Lol
So are you defending the criminal and policing in the US? Do you feel it is a success? Prison for simple drug possession, with no violence or criminal past?

Defend your answer.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,960
8,191
136
If you continually believe there is nothing that can be done, then nothing will be done.

I mean we put a man on the moon, but can't do anything about gun violence. Yes countries like estonia have figured it out. Wealthiest most powerful country in the world can't solve a problem estonia has.
Really you use a country of just over 1 million people as the model to follow?

Wealthiest and most powerful? Well yes and no. Our per-capita GDP is 5th in the world, however that "most powerful" crap makes that a fucking joke. The US spends 39% of ALL military spending on the planet. We are like the man with a new $80,000 pickup in parked beside his single-wide trailer with a house full of hungry kids because he can't afford food.

We squander that wealth by spending more than the next 15 countries combined, including China and Russia. We really are a poor country, and the fact we don't have healthcare is proof. Our education system is a sick fucking joke, and the country's infrastructure is a fucking disaster.

But her emails...
But he has a gun...

Are nothing but a fucking diversion from actually admitting the country is chin deep in a cesspool, and the guns are irrelevant.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
126
That's making the assumption that people who would be the shooter in a mass shooting simply don't because there are laws that prevent them from carrying a gun. How is that working?

Currently, 21 states have what is often called constitutional carry laws, meaning you do not have to have a permit to carry a concealed gun. Many more states allow open carry without a permit, mine included. These are not the mass shooters.

Check your local news outlets and look for any gun related arrests. Most are going to be "felon in possession of a fire arm", which is illegal in all 50 states. Now please site examples of where a law has stopped a criminal from breaking the law? I'll wait.


"Constitutional" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Lack of Regulation seems odd for an Amendment that specifically mentions "well regulated" as part of the rationalization in enshrining the Right in the first place.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
126
Exactly how do you stop a criminal from breaking the law? Lock them up... well that is a stunning failure. The US has the largest percentage of citizens in prison of any country... so that's not working to well.

England has removed most guns from its society, and stabbings and cuttings are the next step. There is a movement in the UK to outlaw 'pointy' knives, and limit them only to chefs.

In 1996 Australia banned and bought back many types of guns. Gun related murder and suicide has gone down, but overall murder and suicide are rates are virtually unchanged, with suicide actually going up.

Criminals ain't going to change, and disarming honest citizens only empowers criminals. There are many self-defense uses of firearms, they just don't get the headlines, or the hysteria from anti-gun nuts.

The shape of knives was first regulated in 1669(giggity) France by King Louis XIV. Specifically to reduce "Violence".
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,424
136
So are you defending the criminal and policing in the US? Do you feel it is a success? Prison for simple drug possession, with no violence or criminal past?

Defend your answer.

I’m not the one making stupid comments. You can continue with your red herring if you like but it will just confirm that you are indeed a gun nutter.

You’ll note that you didn’t bother addressing the point I made either.
 

pete6032

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2010
7,674
3,217
136
Again as a Canadian, don't get why Americans value gun rights above basically above everything else. Such a backward nation.
It's not "Americans" though. You're painting with too broad of a brush. Less than half of all American households own a gun. Plenty of Americans grow up never having used, owned, or seen a gun in real life outside of police and military.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,907
136
Please point out where I said it was a good idea for Texas.

What I said was it really isn't an issue. It won't be a causation for more mass shootings, no more so than it has in 21 other states.

I'm not trying to misquote you. I just responded directly to your quote
I didn't say it was a good idea.

Let's clarify...

Is the new law a good idea or a bad idea?

Texas is now moving to make it harder to vote while at the same time making it easier to obtain and carry firearms. Even driving requires some training. Apparently they think it's not necessary for guns.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,077
37,268
136
Removing the course is the bigger issue IMHO. That will likely lead to more accidental deaths and negative interactions with police.

It also means that people that were too lazy to take the course, can now carry with no barrier, so effectively more guns out in public.

Yeah, this is what I think is going to be the problem. Accidents likely to go way up. There are already a ton of newbs at the ranges here and...their gun handling isn't real good/safe to begin with. Those same people just deciding to carry make me nervous.
 
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eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,796
4,983
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It's not "Americans" though. You're painting with too broad of a brush. Less than half of all American households own a gun. Plenty of Americans grow up never having used, owned, or seen a gun in real life outside of police and military.
Okay fair point. I over generalized. But even if less than half of households own a gun, this is still 40+% too many. Like what's so dangerous that people need that security blanket? Like how many home invasions does having a gun in the house, really stop? And as said by others already, open carry just makes everyone around feel less safe
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,333
705
126
Again as a Canadian, don't get why Americans value gun rights above basically above everything else. Such a backward nation.

Because we are a nation of weak ass cowards. Plus I'm getting a vibe that America is getting more mentally ill by the minute. There is something really wrong with the people in this country.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,944
2,175
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Now please site examples of where a law has stopped a criminal from breaking the law? I'll wait.
You're saying if it wasn't illegal to hold up and rob a bank that normal people wouldn't go ahead and do it? Or how about if there were no speed limits? People wouldn't be going faster than they are currently?

Lots of laws prevent normal people and criminals from doing stuff that harms society.
 
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pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,142
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Looking forward to watching more youtube videos of who gets stopped by police for open carry and who does not get stopped.
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,333
705
126
I'm just going to guess the dark blue states on this map corresponds to looser gun laws and training requirements:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm

I'm not against permitless carry because I think permit prevent mass shootings, but I think training helps prevent accidental gun deaths which kills far more in a year than mass shootings.
I had to take a drivers exam to get my license to be on the road. Should we require gun training to prevent assholes like many in this thread from blowing my brains out because they can?
 
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