Texas Public Schools now *required* to teach the bible

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: guyver01
Texas public schools now required to teach the Bible

As of the 2009-2010 school year public schools in Texas are now required to offer a high school elective course on the literature of the Bible and history of that era. House Bill No. 1287 explains that the course ?must be taught in an objective and non-devotional manner that does not attempt to indoctrinate students as to either the truth or falsity of the Judeo-Christian biblical materials?. It goes on to say that schools can add courses on other religious texts if they would like, but only the one on the Bible is required.




Looks like the 1st amendment is now dead.
Any bets on which amendment is next?

People are dying from starvation and AIDs in Africa and you're worried about this?

Yea, who gives a shit about that constitution thing in America when there's AIDs in Africa... Clearly, we should temp ban using it until we've cured AIDs in Africa (not to say we shouldn't be curing it either).

 

[Red Dawn]

I think it's ok as an elective as long as they offer other classes about other religions or better yet, a class that explores all religions and mythologies which actually are one in the same.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: irishScott
It's not the fact that schools are offering this class, it's the fact that they're required by law to offer this class that's against the Constitution. It's a direct violation of secularization.

As the class is to be taught in a secular manner, there is no violation of the Constitution.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: guyver01

Originally posted by: sciwizam
Key word.

doesn't matter if it's elective.

SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE


PUBLIC Schools should not be teaching or OFFERING classes that have anything to do with Religion.

Oh look, another selective case of interpretation pawns the OP.

While you're at it, you may not want to flip through your wallet, could be mind blowing.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: irishScott
It's not the fact that schools are offering this class, it's the fact that they're required by law to offer this class that's against the Constitution. It's a direct violation of secularization.

As the class is to be taught in a secular manner, there is no violation of the Constitution.

Breaking news texas has required all schools to offer russian ruilet with 5 bullets in the revolver as long as nobody is killed.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: guyver01
Texas public schools now required to teach the Bible

As of the 2009-2010 school year public schools in Texas are now required to offer a high school elective course on the literature of the Bible and history of that era. House Bill No. 1287 explains that the course ?must be taught in an objective and non-devotional manner that does not attempt to indoctrinate students as to either the truth or falsity of the Judeo-Christian biblical materials?. It goes on to say that schools can add courses on other religious texts if they would like, but only the one on the Bible is required.




Looks like the 1st amendment is now dead.
Any bets on which amendment is next?

What part of "elective" means "required teaching for all students"?

:roll:

Also, from the way it was worded, it appears to be a class focused on studying the literature of the Bible and the history behind it. The King James Bible is an excellent source of "Shakespearean-esque" literature, and the Bible is deeply rooted in human history.

For a nation that was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and has "In God We Trust" printed on their dollar bills, having an elective school course on teaching the literature and the history of the Bible is not a big deal. They also expressly allow the teaching of other religious texts if the school chooses to do so.

So sorry OP, but despite your best sensationalist QQing, the Constitution is not being trampled here.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: guyver01

Originally posted by: JD50
PUBLIC schools SHOULD be teaching classes on religion. Not pushing a certain religion, obviously, but they should teach about religion.

i agree, partially..

the should offer elective classes, if students want... on ALL religions, as a generic overview..

however the Texas law states they MUST OFFER a class on the bible. ONLY the bible. nothing else.

that.. IMO .. is bullshit.

I disagree with the law, but I see nothing wrong with focusing more on Christianity than other religions. Our country is comprised of mostly Christians, there's nothing wrong with focusing on that.

Actually, focusing on christianity is exactly what's wrong with it. If the law required that elective classes on the history and impact of religion in general be taught, that'd be fine. By singling out christianity, specifically because as you said it is the majority religion in our country, the effect is one of government endorsement, saying "this is normal, this is the state sanctioned religion", regardless of the claim to attempt to teach it without indoctrinating. There's very little chance this will survive federal court review.

 

[Druidx]

Just one more of a long list of reasons why I don't want to see federal funds used for schools. Personally, I don't see how this is any different that learning about other mythologies an their impact on modern literature.

 

[Red Dawn]

Actually it's kind of cool that Texas would allow a class on a book full of incest, adultery and beastiality.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

What part of "elective" means "required teaching for all students"?

:roll:

Also, from the way it was worded, it appears to be a class focused on studying the literature of the Bible and the history behind it. The King James Bible is an excellent source of "Shakespearean-esque" literature, and the Bible is deeply rooted in human history.

For a nation that was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and has "In God We Trust" printed on their dollar bills, having an elective school course on teaching the literature and the history of the Bible is not a big deal. They also expressly allow the teaching of other religious texts if the school chooses to do so.

So sorry OP, but despite your best sensationalist QQing, the Constitution is not being trampled here.

They're requiring schools to devote resources to it, which with the state of a lot of schools funding pretty much means to the exclusion of other religions. They're saying it's ok to have other religious classes, but you MUST have a bible class. That couldn't possibly be biased and unfair to other religions. Classrooms/books don't just form out of thin air. Full time teachers don't volunteer. It's clearly a poor attempt to dance around separation of chruch and state. More clever attempts have been made and shot down.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I think it's ok as an elective as long as they offer other classes about other religions or better yet, a class that explores all religions and mythologies which actually are one in the same.

This. They should offer a class on world religion. Perhaps understanding would lead to acceptance, though in Texas it might just show them where to aim. 😛

 

[xj0hnx]

The title of your thread is very misleading, I know for a fact that when my kid starts fisrt grade this year, he will not be taking any high school electives, much less one about the Bible.

Seperation of church and state is derived from the Constitution, but nowhere in the Constitution. The First Amendment is in regards to the Federal Government establishing a a religion, it has nothing whatsoever to do with elective courses in High School.

 

[blackangst1]

Must offer =! students must take. WTF is wrong with you people.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: guyver01

Originally posted by: JD50
PUBLIC schools SHOULD be teaching classes on religion. Not pushing a certain religion, obviously, but they should teach about religion.

i agree, partially..

the should offer elective classes, if students want... on ALL religions, as a generic overview..

however the Texas law states they MUST OFFER a class on the bible. ONLY the bible. nothing else.

that.. IMO .. is bullshit.

I disagree with the law, but I see nothing wrong with focusing more on Christianity than other religions. Our country is comprised of mostly Christians, there's nothing wrong with focusing on that.

Actually, focusing on christianity is exactly what's wrong with it. If the law required that elective classes on the history and impact of religion in general be taught, that'd be fine. By singling out christianity, specifically because as you said it is the majority religion in our country, the effect is one of government endorsement, saying "this is normal, this is the state sanctioned religion", regardless of the claim to attempt to teach it without indoctrinating. There's very little chance this will survive federal court review.

Yet you have no problem with schools almost exclusively teaching Evolution, while many expressly ban the teaching of Intelligent Design.

Where is your cry for fairness in that case?

:roll:

The bolded party also succinctly shows the problem with federal funding for state schools. The federal government should not be able to tell a state how it should teach in the state's local and regional schools.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Yet you have no problem with schools almost exclusively teaching Evolution, while many expressly ban the teaching of Intelligent Design.

One of them is science and nonreligious; the other is a poor attempt to make something expressly religious look like it's not as a stepping stone to pushing religion (as stated by the people who created ID).

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: sciwizam

Originally posted by: guyver01
Texas public schools now required to teach the Bible

As of the 2009-2010 school year public schools in Texas are now required to offer a high school elective course on the literature of the Bible and history of that era. House Bill No. 1287 explains that the course ?must be taught in an objective and non-devotional manner that does not attempt to indoctrinate students as to either the truth or falsity of the Judeo-Christian biblical materials?. It goes on to say that schools can add courses on other religious texts if they would like, but only the one on the Bible is required.




Looks like the 4th amendment is now dead.
Any bets on which amendment is next?

Key word.

But as far my opinion, when they can't even teach facts in a biology class or for any class in a competent manner, I would like to see how they can manage to teach the bible course in a " objective and non-devotional manner that does not attempt to indoctrinate students as to either the truth or falsity of the Judeo-Christian biblical materials".

EDIT: Did you get your amendment wrong? I'm not finding anything religious related in the 4th Amendment.

It is elective for the students to take, the taxpayers are still required to pay for it.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Yet you have no problem with schools almost exclusively teaching Evolution, while many expressly ban the teaching of Intelligent Design.

Where is your cry for fairness in that case?

Because one is based on Scientific theory and the other is based on hoodoo voodoo bullshit.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

What part of "elective" means "required teaching for all students"?

:roll:

Also, from the way it was worded, it appears to be a class focused on studying the literature of the Bible and the history behind it. The King James Bible is an excellent source of "Shakespearean-esque" literature, and the Bible is deeply rooted in human history.

For a nation that was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and has "In God We Trust" printed on their dollar bills, having an elective school course on teaching the literature and the history of the Bible is not a big deal. They also expressly allow the teaching of other religious texts if the school chooses to do so.

So sorry OP, but despite your best sensationalist QQing, the Constitution is not being trampled here.

They're requiring schools to devote resources to it, which with the state of a lot of schools funding pretty much means to the exclusion of other religions. They're saying it's ok to have other religious classes, but you MUST have a bible class. That couldn't possibly be biased and unfair to other religions. Classrooms/books don't just form out of thin air. Full time teachers don't volunteer. It's clearly a poor attempt to dance around separation of chruch and state. More clever attempts have been made and shot down.

I pose the same question to you. Where is your faux outrage over expressly pushing one "religious" viewpoint in schools (Evolution/Secularism) and expressly banning another (Intelligent Design/Christianity)? Why aren't you for equal rights and opportunity in this case? Schools should be able to teach both, if they choose, but instead, they are forced to teach one and banned from teaching another.

Hypocrisy much?

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Yet you have no problem with schools almost exclusively teaching Evolution, while many expressly ban the teaching of Intelligent Design.

Where is your cry for fairness in that case?

Because one is based on Scientific theory and the other is based on hoodoo voodoo bullshit.

In your opinion.

For many, it takes more faith to believe that everything just BOOM randomly appeared out of nothing than believe in Intelligent Design.

But my point wasn't to start an Evolution VS Intelligent Design debate, it was to show the hypocrisy where one "religious" viewpoint is exclusively taught in schools and another is banned.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Yet you have no problem with schools almost exclusively teaching Evolution, while many expressly ban the teaching of Intelligent Design.

Where is your cry for fairness in that case?

Because one is based on Scientific theory and the other is based on hoodoo voodoo bullshit.

In your opinion.

no

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

I pose the same question to you. Where is your faux outrage over expressly pushing one "religious" viewpoint in schools (Evolution/Secularism) and expressly banning another (Intelligent Design/Christianity)? Why aren't you for equal rights and opportunity in this case? Schools should be able to teach both, if they choose, but instead, they are forced to teach one and banned from teaching another.

Hypocrisy much?

ID has 0 evidence supporting it. It's introduction requires a redefining of what science is to make it fit into a science class. It's creators have admitted to coming up with and pushing it with the agenda of using it as a stepping stone towards bringing religion into schools. How it's been treated has no sympathy from me. 404 hypocrisy not found.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

I pose the same question to you. Where is your faux outrage over expressly pushing one "religious" viewpoint in schools (Evolution/Secularism) and expressly banning another (Intelligent Design/Christianity)? Why aren't you for equal rights and opportunity in this case? Schools should be able to teach both, if they choose, but instead, they are forced to teach one and banned from teaching another.

Hypocrisy much?

ID has 0 evidence supporting it. It's introduction requires a redefining of what science is to make it fit into a science class. It's creators have admitted to coming up with and pushing it with the agenda of using it as a stepping stone towards bringing religion into schools. How it's been treated has no sympathy from me. 404 hypocrisy not found.

No evidence, eh? So, if I Google up "Intelligent Design", I will find zero results?

Also, links to back up your claims that the creators have admitted that it was just a Trojan Horse to get religion in schools?

Please note: actual quotes from the creators saying this, not liberal blogs where they try and read the minds and intent of people.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

But my point wasn't to start an Evolution VS Intelligent Design debate, it was to show the hypocrisy where one "religious" viewpoint is exclusively taught in schools and another is banned.

Evolution isn't a religious viewpoint.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: sciwizam

Originally posted by: guyver01
Texas public schools now required to teach the Bible

As of the 2009-2010 school year public schools in Texas are now required to offer a high school elective course on the literature of the Bible and history of that era. House Bill No. 1287 explains that the course ?must be taught in an objective and non-devotional manner that does not attempt to indoctrinate students as to either the truth or falsity of the Judeo-Christian biblical materials?. It goes on to say that schools can add courses on other religious texts if they would like, but only the one on the Bible is required.




Looks like the 4th amendment is now dead.
Any bets on which amendment is next?

Key word.

But as far my opinion, when they can't even teach facts in a biology class or for any class in a competent manner, I would like to see how they can manage to teach the bible course in a " objective and non-devotional manner that does not attempt to indoctrinate students as to either the truth or falsity of the Judeo-Christian biblical materials".

EDIT: Did you get your amendment wrong? I'm not finding anything religious related in the 4th Amendment.

It is elective for the students to take, the taxpayers are still required to pay for it.

So you are also against colleges teaching religion also? Afterall, tax money (public) and tuition/fees (private) pay for that instruction.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

I pose the same question to you. Where is your faux outrage over expressly pushing one "religious" viewpoint in schools (Evolution/Secularism) and expressly banning another (Intelligent Design/Christianity)? Why aren't you for equal rights and opportunity in this case? Schools should be able to teach both, if they choose, but instead, they are forced to teach one and banned from teaching another.

Hypocrisy much?

ID has 0 evidence supporting it. It's introduction requires a redefining of what science is to make it fit into a science class. It's creators have admitted to coming up with and pushing it with the agenda of using it as a stepping stone towards bringing religion into schools. How it's been treated has no sympathy from me. 404 hypocrisy not found.

No evidence, eh? So, if I Google up "Intelligent Design", I will find zero results?

Also, links to back up your claims that the creators have admitted that it was just a Trojan Horse to get religion in schools?

Please note: actual quotes from the creators saying this, not liberal blogs where they try and read the minds and intent of people.

"Advocates of intelligent design argue that it is a scientific theory,[11] and seek to fundamentally redefine science to accept supernatural explanations.[12] The unequivocal consensus in the scientific community is that intelligent design is not science.[13][14][15][16] The U.S. National Academy of Sciences has stated that "creationism, intelligent design, and other claims of supernatural intervention in the origin of life or of species are not science because they are not testable by the methods of science."[17] The U.S. National Science Teachers Association and the American Association for the Advancement of Science have termed it pseudoscience.[18] Others in the scientific community have concurred, and some have called it junk science.[19][20]"

U.S. District Judge John E. Jones III ruled that intelligent design is not science, that it "cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents", and that the school district's promotion of it therefore violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.[23]

-from wikipedia (you can go there to find the original sources if you want. all of the points are sourced)

Sure you can google up a bunch of fake science evidence from google if you want.

"Phillip E. Johnson has stated that cultivating ambiguity by employing secular language in arguments that are carefully crafted to avoid overtones of theistic creationism is a necessary first step for ultimately reintroducing the Christian concept of God as the designer. Johnson explicitly calls for intelligent design proponents to obfuscate their religious motivations so as to avoid having intelligent design identified "as just another way of packaging the Christian evangelical message"

^ Phillip Johnson (April 1999). "'Keeping the Darwinists Honest' an interview with Phillip Johnson". Citizen Magazine. "Intelligent Design is an intellectual movement, and the Wedge strategy stops working when we are seen as just another way of packaging the Christian evangelical message. [...] The evangelists do what they do very well, and I hope our work opens up for them some doors that have been closed".

Yea...