Texas propose law not only deny public services to illegal immigrants

[CanOWorms]

"A pregnant illegal alien can wait at the border, check into a hospital in Texas, give birth without paying a penny, and be rewarded for her illegal behavior," Berman said. "That's outrageous."

This sort of statement has been popular among the racist supremacist far-right in Europe (and spreading to the mainstream) and it is usually found to have no truth to it.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Thank you Texas, may you lead the way for a national change of policy. It is time to end this before 1/3rd of our nation consists of the third world.

Last I checked illegal immigrants aren't supposed to have rights. That whole Constitution thing, I'm pretty sure they're talking about AMERICANS in there. It would be pretty stupid to create a document that outlines the articles of governship and the rights of people for ANOTHER COUNTRY

:thumbsup:

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

"A pregnant illegal alien can wait at the border, check into a hospital in Texas, give birth without paying a penny, and be rewarded for her illegal behavior," Berman said. "That's outrageous."

This sort of statement has been popular among the racist supremacist far-right in Europe (and spreading to the mainstream) and it is usually found to have no truth to it.

Well, here ya go:

LINKY

In summary, in 1995, Medicaid-funded births to undocumented alien mothers were estimated to number over 78,000 in California and 24,000 in Texas

Now, beause they are UNDOCUMENTED there is no way to prove how long they were in the country before giving birth. But this a FAR CRY from having "no truth". The OJ Simpson murder case was unproven, but to say there is "no truth" to the allegation is absurd.

Note the use of term "Medicaid-funded", that means US taxpayers paid for it.

Fern

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Thank you Texas, may you lead the way for a national change of policy. It is time to end this before 1/3rd of our nation consists of the third world.

Last I checked illegal immigrants aren't supposed to have rights. That whole Constitution thing, I'm pretty sure they're talking about AMERICANS in there. It would be pretty stupid to create a document that outlines the articles of governship and the rights of people for ANOTHER COUNTRY

:thumbsup:

USSC has already ruled the opposite, that Constitutional protections apply to everyone, not just US citizens.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Thank you Texas, may you lead the way for a national change of policy. It is time to end this before 1/3rd of our nation consists of the third world.

Last I checked illegal immigrants aren't supposed to have rights. That whole Constitution thing, I'm pretty sure they're talking about AMERICANS in there. It would be pretty stupid to create a document that outlines the articles of governship and the rights of people for ANOTHER COUNTRY

:thumbsup:

USSC has already ruled the opposite, that Constitutional protections apply to everyone, not just US citizens.

got a link to that ruling?

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Thank you Texas, may you lead the way for a national change of policy. It is time to end this before 1/3rd of our nation consists of the third world.

Last I checked illegal immigrants aren't supposed to have rights. That whole Constitution thing, I'm pretty sure they're talking about AMERICANS in there. It would be pretty stupid to create a document that outlines the articles of governship and the rights of people for ANOTHER COUNTRY

:thumbsup:

USSC has already ruled the opposite, that Constitutional protections apply to everyone, not just US citizens.

got a link to that ruling?

I am not a lawyer, but I remember from my government class that constitutional protections apply to everyone, not just citizen. You can't just murder an immigrant, because that would be depriving him of his right to life, for example.

 

[Fern]

but I remember from my government class that constitutional protections apply to everyone, not just citizen

Public education, or bad memory? 😉

See below:


LINKY

The U.S. Supreme Court has not addressed whether undocumented immigrants have all the constitutional protections that U.S. citizens

In his concurring opinion, Justice Frank Murphy went even further, saying that ?once an alien lawfully enters and resides in this country he becomes invested with the rights guaranteed by the Constitution to all people within our borders. Such rights include those protected by the First and the Fifth Amendments ??

However, the courts, including the Supreme Court, have more recently stated that these protections may be limited. In 1990, the Supreme Court said cases establishing constitutional protections extended to aliens ?are constitutional decisions of this Court expressly according differing protection to aliens than to citizens, based on our conclusion that the particular provisions in question were not intended to extend to aliens in the same degree as to citizens? (United States v. Verdugo-Urquidez, 494 U.S. 259).

Fern

 

[Arcex]

miketheidiot, the point I'm trying to make is that illegal immigrants should not expect free government services; if they do not contribute to the country they should not be defended by said country, nor should they be given free medical care, certainly not when we have actual citizens suffering and dying because they don't have medical coverage.

Halik, based on your argument the United States should be providing basic medical care to everyone on the planet, it just isn't feasible. The government is supposed to provide for the citizens of that country, I realize the wording of the Constitution says things like "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property" but do you honestly think they intended that to include all living people on the planet, as opposed to the people who would be governed by that document?

**edited for punctuation**

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Fern

but I remember from my government class that constitutional protections apply to everyone, not just citizen

Public education, or bad memory? 😉

See below:


LINKY

The U.S. Supreme Court has not addressed whether undocumented immigrants have all the constitutional protections that U.S. citizens

In his concurring opinion, Justice Frank Murphy went even further, saying that ?once an alien lawfully enters and resides in this country he becomes invested with the rights guaranteed by the Constitution to all people within our borders. Such rights include those protected by the First and the Fifth Amendments ??

However, the courts, including the Supreme Court, have more recently stated that these protections may be limited. In 1990, the Supreme Court said cases establishing constitutional protections extended to aliens ?are constitutional decisions of this Court expressly according differing protection to aliens than to citizens, based on our conclusion that the particular provisions in question were not intended to extend to aliens in the same degree as to citizens? (United States v. Verdugo-Urquidez, 494 U.S. 259).

Fern

Yes, Immigrants don't have all the rights, but they do have a most of the rights of the Constitution, so this statement is blatantly false because many of the rights in the Constitution also apply to everyone in the US, including illegals:

Last I checked illegal immigrants aren't supposed to have rights. That whole Constitution thing, I'm pretty sure they're talking about AMERICANS in there. It would be pretty stupid to create a document that outlines the articles of governship and the rights of people for ANOTHER COUNTRY

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Thank you Texas, may you lead the way for a national change of policy. It is time to end this before 1/3rd of our nation consists of the third world.

Last I checked illegal immigrants aren't supposed to have rights. That whole Constitution thing, I'm pretty sure they're talking about AMERICANS in there. It would be pretty stupid to create a document that outlines the articles of governship and the rights of people for ANOTHER COUNTRY

:thumbsup:

USSC has already ruled the opposite, that Constitutional protections apply to everyone, not just US citizens.

got a link to that ruling?

I am not a lawyer, but I remember from my government class that constitutional protections apply to everyone, not just citizen. You can't just murder an immigrant, because that would be depriving him of his right to life, for example.

Yes, but medical treatment, social services, etc etc etc etc are NOT constitutional rights. The only thing that may be unconstitutional in this batch of legislation is regarding the pop a squat kids.

They need a 50% tax on money transfers to Mexico. With the amount of US dollars going to Mexico each year, its HIGH time the US starts collecting a large portion of it to cover expenses inccured by illegal aliens.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Thank you Texas, may you lead the way for a national change of policy. It is time to end this before 1/3rd of our nation consists of the third world.

Last I checked illegal immigrants aren't supposed to have rights. That whole Constitution thing, I'm pretty sure they're talking about AMERICANS in there. It would be pretty stupid to create a document that outlines the articles of governship and the rights of people for ANOTHER COUNTRY

:thumbsup:

USSC has already ruled the opposite, that Constitutional protections apply to everyone, not just US citizens.

got a link to that ruling?

I am not a lawyer, but I remember from my government class that constitutional protections apply to everyone, not just citizen. You can't just murder an immigrant, because that would be depriving him of his right to life, for example.

Yes, but medical treatment, social services, etc etc etc etc are NOT constitutional rights. The only thing that may be unconstitutional in this batch of legislation is regarding the pop a squat kids.

They need a 50% tax on money transfers to Mexico. With the amount of US dollars going to Mexico each year, its HIGH time the US starts collecting a large portion of it to cover expenses inccured by illegal aliens.

What does that have to do with what I said. I simply said that the statement that immigrants have no constitutional rights is false. I don't see what the debate is about unless you are continuing to argue that they have no constitutional rights.
Taxing money transfers to Mexico at 50% is a great incentive for illegals to bring their families here.

 

[Fern]

Yes, Immigrants don't have all the rights, but they do have a most of the rights of the Constitution

Honstly, I really don't know. But some of the rights that they DON'T have surprise me. Based on some of the links I've seen I'd say (1) it's clear that they don't have all the rights, and (2) not all rights (to aliens, whether legal or not) have been adjudicated - means we don't yet know.

So, for any question of whether constutional rights applies to (illegal) aliens it's prolly best to go case by case (or "right" by "right").

In addition, the Court historically has afforded Congress great deference in the area of immigration and naturalization. For example, in 1999 the Supreme Court ruled in a case involving the deportation of eight resident aliens with ties to ?international terrorist and communist organizations? that ?as a general matter ? an alien unlawfully in this country has no constitutional right to assert selective enforcement as a defense against his deportation? (Reno v. American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Comm., 525 U.S. 471, 488).

In 2002, in Hoffman Plastic Compounds v. NLRB (535 U.S. 137, the Supreme Court ruled that an undocumented worker could not receive back pay, as per the National Labor Relations Act, after he was unlawfully fired for participating in union organizing activities because he was not entitled to employment in the first place. (The NLRB awards back pay as a remedy for workers fired for participating in such activity.) This ruling is seen by some as limiting the rights of assembly and association of undocumented workers.

Fern

 

[fornax]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Reworking the legal immigration laws and processes would be a great first step; but, in the meantime, nothing excuses criminal behavior - that includes entering our country illegally - and they should certainly not be rewarded for their efforts.

A one-way ticket back to the country of OUR choice would be better... and funnier.

I never thought I'd say that, but I agree with palehorse74. Is it the global warming or somethin'?

 

[theeedude]

Regardless of what rights you think illegals have, children born in the US are US citizens, and it's going to be next to impossible for this law to comply with equal protection clause, unless they also strip all American kids of the same benefits.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: senseamp
It's easy to propose stupid laws when you know they are unconstitutional. You can pander to every racist and nationalist without having to deal with the consequences.

Well there has been several stories where I live about illegals coming in and are starting to kidnap kids and demand a ransom like they do in latin America. One guy they are looking for after kidnapping a 13yr old kid has been deported before.

 

[hellokeith]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Regardless of what rights you think illegals have, children born in the US are US citizens, and it's going to be next to impossible for this law to comply with equal protection clause, unless they also strip all American kids of the same benefits.

Unborn American children are stripped of their right to life all the time. How about we take care of our own first before worrying about illegals' anchor babies?

 

[Banzai042]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Regardless of what rights you think illegals have, children born in the US are US citizens, and it's going to be next to impossible for this law to comply with equal protection clause, unless they also strip all American kids of the same benefits.

But the problem with the law as it exists now is that it allows for the abuse of the system that is anchor babies.
What if it were stated that all children born in the US with parents that are legally in the country are automatically citizens. No more anchor babies, but at the same time every child of a fully legal immigrant is a full citizen.

I also agree that the legal immigration methods are problematic. IMO we need to do three things:
1) Change the law so anchor babies can't happen
2) Illegal immigrant? Instant deportation, massive fine for any employer (might need to grant all "undocumented" immigrants in the country now amnesty and give them 6 months to register with no consequences or something like that)
3) Make Legal immigration much easier. If the issue is that it takes to long, expand the govt office that handles legal immigration. Make it more affordable for them, do something. If it's significantly easier for them to come here then they probably won't be so eager to break the law (hopefully). I have no problem with anybody from a foreign nation coming into America *legally* (as long as they don't pose a genuine security risk), but if their first act on entering the country is breaking the law that doesn't say much for their respect for the laws of America.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: senseamp
Regardless of what rights you think illegals have, children born in the US are US citizens, and it's going to be next to impossible for this law to comply with equal protection clause, unless they also strip all American kids of the same benefits.

Unborn American children are stripped of their right to life all the time. How about we take care of our own first before worrying about illegals' anchor babies?

Anchor babies are American children. Next.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Banzai042

Originally posted by: senseamp
Regardless of what rights you think illegals have, children born in the US are US citizens, and it's going to be next to impossible for this law to comply with equal protection clause, unless they also strip all American kids of the same benefits.

But the problem with the law as it exists now is that it allows for the abuse of the system that is anchor babies.
What if it were stated that all children born in the US with parents that are legally in the country are automatically citizens. No more anchor babies, but at the same time every child of a fully legal immigrant is a full citizen.

I also agree that the legal immigration methods are problematic. IMO we need to do three things:
1) Change the law so anchor babies can't happen
2) Illegal immigrant? Instant deportation, massive fine for any employer (might need to grant all "undocumented" immigrants in the country now amnesty and give them 6 months to register with no consequences or something like that)
3) Make Legal immigration much easier. If the issue is that it takes to long, expand the govt office that handles legal immigration. Make it more affordable for them, do something. If it's significantly easier for them to come here then they probably won't be so eager to break the law (hopefully). I have no problem with anybody from a foreign nation coming into America *legally* (as long as they don't pose a genuine security risk), but if their first act on entering the country is breaking the law that doesn't say much for their respect for the laws of America.

Maybe it's a bad law, but it's a Federal law and part of the Constitution, not Texas law, so Texas has no standing to change it by itself. Ergo it will be overturned in federal court. So it's just a pointless exercise in pandering.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: senseamp
Regardless of what rights you think illegals have, children born in the US are US citizens, and it's going to be next to impossible for this law to comply with equal protection clause, unless they also strip all American kids of the same benefits.

Unborn American children are stripped of their right to life all the time. How about we take care of our own first before worrying about illegals' anchor babies?

Anchor babies are American children. Next.

The constitution does not guarantee any rights beyond those specifically stated therein. It will be perfectly legal for Texas to deny public services as they see fit. States deny public services all the time for a variety of reasons. If they choose to deny services to minors whose parents are not American citizens, there's nothing unconstitutional about that.

 

[oldman420]

Originally posted by: EXman
I think Illegal part pretty much null and voids public assistance. Anchor babies well they are cute... not thier fault to me and we are responsible for their parents being here by not enforcing our boarders. At least these kids will speak english. 🙂

We need to close the boarders and keep the population that we have here. Make them citizens if they are productive Americans. If they are criminals either deport them or create a facility just for illegals from every nation and deduct that expense from the millions we give to the UN and Canada since we have too many Canadians here. j/k

come to Santa Ana Ca and tell me that, the parents don't speak English and the classes are even bilingual so these cute"smelly screaming" little ones just don't bother to learn English.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: senseamp
Regardless of what rights you think illegals have, children born in the US are US citizens, and it's going to be next to impossible for this law to comply with equal protection clause, unless they also strip all American kids of the same benefits.

Unborn American children are stripped of their right to life all the time. How about we take care of our own first before worrying about illegals' anchor babies?

Anchor babies are American children. Next.

The constitution does not guarantee any rights beyond those specifically stated therein. It will be perfectly legal for Texas to deny public services as they see fit. States deny public services all the time for a variety of reasons. If they choose to deny services to minors whose parents are not American citizens, there's nothing unconstitutional about that.

Yes there is, and Texas will find that out in a hurry. It's called the equal protection clause.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: senseamp
Regardless of what rights you think illegals have, children born in the US are US citizens, and it's going to be next to impossible for this law to comply with equal protection clause, unless they also strip all American kids of the same benefits.

Unborn American children are stripped of their right to life all the time. How about we take care of our own first before worrying about illegals' anchor babies?

Anchor babies are American children. Next.

The constitution does not guarantee any rights beyond those specifically stated therein. It will be perfectly legal for Texas to deny public services as they see fit. States deny public services all the time for a variety of reasons. If they choose to deny services to minors whose parents are not American citizens, there's nothing unconstitutional about that.

Yes there is, and Texas will find that out in a hurry. It's called the equal protection clause.

:roll:

Repeating yourself doesn't make you right.

 

[piasabird]

Just cut off all federal funds to any agency that gives illegals health care.

 

[ahurtt]

Ok, I'm all for denying services to illegal aliens. But you cannot strip the services from a child of illegal parents if that child is already an American citizen under the current law as it stands today. I'd like to do it but the simple and realistic fact is we just cannot allow that. What we need to do is STOP granting automatic naturalization status to children of illegals and also deny the children of illegal parents benefits FROM NOW ON. But you just cannot strip somebody you've already granted citizenship of these services.

Of course if this becomes law in Texas, the next thing you will see in the news is how courts are awarding millions of dollars in settlements to illegal families of illegal immigrants who were allowed to die on the floors of hospital emergency rooms because they were not US citizens.