Texas propose law not only deny public services to illegal immigrants

babylon5

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2000
1,363
1
0
That is so meannnnn!! You Americans won't pay for illegals hospital billls and make anchor babies anymore! How dare you? You won't let illegals abuse 14th Amendment that was intended for slaves? What's wrong with you people?? Americans owe illegal's God given right to pay for hospital stay to over crowded school. Dont' be so mean, you people are so mean and heartless! I hate you!!!!!! [picture teens acting out in front of you, yes, like that]

[Sarcastic mode off]


Article

By Miguel Bustillo
Times Staff Writer

February 27, 2007

AUSTIN, TEXAS ? The Lone Star State has long welcomed Latino immigrants, no matter how they got across the state's 1,200-mile border with Mexico.

Back when California voted to cut public services to illegal immigrants, then-Texas Gov. George W. Bush was preaching that immigrants were equal players in the state's economy.

But the atmosphere has changed markedly in Texas, home to about 10% of the nation's illegal immigrants.

Now, a growing chorus of Republicans and some Democrats is pushing some of the harshest immigration-related measures in the United States ? laws that would not only deny public services to illegal immigrants but strip their American-born children of benefits as well.

The proposal to deny services to American citizens, which is thought to be the first in the country, is part of a push to challenge the citizenship given automatically to children born in this country to illegal immigrants.

Prior rulings have affirmed that nearly all such children were entitled to birthright citizenship under the 14th Amendment. But some legal scholars have questioned whether the amendment, which redefined national citizenship to include the children of slaves after the Civil War, should cover babies born to foreign parents.

The Pew Hispanic Center estimated last year that more than 3 million U.S. citizens were born to illegal immigrant parents.

"The Texas bill could be a vehicle to get this before the courts, and we strongly support that," said Ira Mehlman, a spokesman for the Federation for American Immigration Reform, which has been pushing Congress to revisit the 14th Amendment. "There is no question that it is time for a review, given the number of people entering the country illegally and giving birth."

Texas' shift toward a more incendiary brand of immigration politics comes at a time when many state lawmakers are frustrated that Washington has failed to stop illegal immigration. Few think President Bush's moderate proposals, which include a guest worker program and enhanced border security, will help much, even if they are approved by Congress.

State Rep. Leo Berman, the Republican legislator who wrote the bill to deny benefits to the children of illegal immigrants, admits that his goal is to set off a fight in the federal courts.

His legislation has been compared to Proposition 187, which was ruled unconstitutional after California voters approved it in 1994, but it goes further. It would deny citizens born to illegal immigrants numerous state services, including unemployment benefits and the ability to obtain professional licenses.

"A pregnant illegal alien can wait at the border, check into a hospital in Texas, give birth without paying a penny, and be rewarded for her illegal behavior," Berman said. "That's outrageous."

Berman's bill is one of more than two dozen proposals targeting illegal immigration in Texas. Other measures would tax money that illegal immigrants wire abroad; require patients to prove they are in the country legally before receiving state medical services; eliminate in-state college tuition breaks for illegal immigrants; and require state agencies to do a thorough accounting of how much illegal immigration is costing the state. Texas is home to about 1 million to 2 million illegal immigrants.

"Why should illegal immigrants, who by virtue of being in the country have broken the law, be able to get the same state services as a citizen?" asked state Sen. Royce West, a Democrat from Dallas who is proposing one of several measures to tax remittances to Mexico. He said his legislation was one way to raise money for healthcare programs.

Texas politicians say that proposing such laws would have been unimaginable a decade ago. During his days as governor, Bush regularly praised the cultural and economic contributions Latino immigrants were making to the state. His political strategy paid off: He won 40% of the Latino vote in 1998, a number previously considered unreachable for a Republican.

Bush's approach was a stark contrast from the immigration politics in California during the tenure of Gov. Pete Wilson, who backed Proposition 187, using it to win reelection.

"California has always been more liberal than Texas, but yet the treatment of immigration issues has been night and day," said Rogelio Saenz, a sociology professor at Texas A&M University.

The Texas Republican Party added hard-line immigration language to its platform last year in response to the demands of its conservative base. It included the line "No amnesty! No how. No way," and a call to "suspend automatic U.S. citizenship to children born to illegal immigrant parents," the idea now proposed by Berman.

Latino leaders say they are stunned by the Texas proposals to deny services to children. They promise retaliation at the ballot box.

"How could anyone be so mean-spirited?" said Rosa Rosales, president of the League of United Latin American Citizens, the nation's oldest Latino civil rights group, which originated in Texas. "We're just going to have to get the community out to show these representatives that we matter."

For undocumented Texans such as Ofelia Lopez, the state's push to get tough on illegal immigrants elicits sadness as much as fear. Lopez , who crossed into the U.S. from Mexico seven years ago with the hope that she could give her children a better life, has two daughters, one 3 years old and one 6 months old, who are U.S. citizens.

"I don't think the solution is to deny children the opportunity to become better people. That's not going to help anyone," said Lopez, 35, who also has a 15-year-old daughter born in Mexico who is attending a Texas high school. "That's not going to stop people from coming here. People are coming here because it's the only way to survive."

Last year, state lawmakers nationwide proposed a record 570 immigration measures, and 84 were signed into law, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. The group predicts that immigration will again be among the hottest state issues in 2007.

In Texas, Democratic state Rep. Pete Gallego, head of the Mexican American Legislative Caucus in the House, said that though some of the new proposals were harsh, a few might have momentum, particularly the bills to tax wire transfers.

"People are appalled at how hard core some of these things are," Gallego said. "We will have a fight."

Texas Gov. Rick Perry, a conservative Republican who talked tough on illegal immigration during his reelection campaign last year, has tempered his rhetoric in recent weeks, and sounded a message of compassion and unity during his oath-of-office address last month. He has singled out Berman's proposal as divisive.

Berman counters that his bill may not make him the darling of Austin's lobbyists or the governor, but he is convinced his cause is popular.

"My mail is running 30 to 1 in favor of what I am trying to do," he said.

"This problem is costing Texas money. Texas has to act."
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
Originally posted by: babylon5
That is so meannnnn!! You Americans won't pay for illegals hospital billls and make anchor babies anymore! How dare you? You won't let illegals abuse 14th Amendment that was intended for slaves? What's wrong with you people?? Americans owe illegal's God given right to pay for hospital stay to over crowded school. Dont' be so mean, you people are so mean and heartless! I hate you!!!!!! [picture teens acting out in front of you, yes, like that]

[Sarcastic mode off]


Article

By Miguel Bustillo
Times Staff Writer

February 27, 2007

AUSTIN, TEXAS ? The Lone Star State has long welcomed Latino immigrants, no matter how they got across the state's 1,200-mile border with Mexico.

Back when California voted to cut public services to illegal immigrants, then-Texas Gov. George W. Bush was preaching that immigrants were equal players in the state's economy.

But the atmosphere has changed markedly in Texas, home to about 10% of the nation's illegal immigrants.

Now, a growing chorus of Republicans and some Democrats is pushing some of the harshest immigration-related measures in the United States ? laws that would not only deny public services to illegal immigrants but strip their American-born children of benefits as well.

The proposal to deny services to American citizens, which is thought to be the first in the country, is part of a push to challenge the citizenship given automatically to children born in this country to illegal immigrants.

Prior rulings have affirmed that nearly all such children were entitled to birthright citizenship under the 14th Amendment. But some legal scholars have questioned whether the amendment, which redefined national citizenship to include the children of slaves after the Civil War, should cover babies born to foreign parents.

The Pew Hispanic Center estimated last year that more than 3 million U.S. citizens were born to illegal immigrant parents.

"The Texas bill could be a vehicle to get this before the courts, and we strongly support that," said Ira Mehlman, a spokesman for the Federation for American Immigration Reform, which has been pushing Congress to revisit the 14th Amendment. "There is no question that it is time for a review, given the number of people entering the country illegally and giving birth."

Texas' shift toward a more incendiary brand of immigration politics comes at a time when many state lawmakers are frustrated that Washington has failed to stop illegal immigration. Few think President Bush's moderate proposals, which include a guest worker program and enhanced border security, will help much, even if they are approved by Congress.

State Rep. Leo Berman, the Republican legislator who wrote the bill to deny benefits to the children of illegal immigrants, admits that his goal is to set off a fight in the federal courts.

His legislation has been compared to Proposition 187, which was ruled unconstitutional after California voters approved it in 1994, but it goes further. It would deny citizens born to illegal immigrants numerous state services, including unemployment benefits and the ability to obtain professional licenses.

"A pregnant illegal alien can wait at the border, check into a hospital in Texas, give birth without paying a penny, and be rewarded for her illegal behavior," Berman said. "That's outrageous."

Berman's bill is one of more than two dozen proposals targeting illegal immigration in Texas. Other measures would tax money that illegal immigrants wire abroad; require patients to prove they are in the country legally before receiving state medical services; eliminate in-state college tuition breaks for illegal immigrants; and require state agencies to do a thorough accounting of how much illegal immigration is costing the state. Texas is home to about 1 million to 2 million illegal immigrants.

"Why should illegal immigrants, who by virtue of being in the country have broken the law, be able to get the same state services as a citizen?" asked state Sen. Royce West, a Democrat from Dallas who is proposing one of several measures to tax remittances to Mexico. He said his legislation was one way to raise money for healthcare programs.

Texas politicians say that proposing such laws would have been unimaginable a decade ago. During his days as governor, Bush regularly praised the cultural and economic contributions Latino immigrants were making to the state. His political strategy paid off: He won 40% of the Latino vote in 1998, a number previously considered unreachable for a Republican.

Bush's approach was a stark contrast from the immigration politics in California during the tenure of Gov. Pete Wilson, who backed Proposition 187, using it to win reelection.

"California has always been more liberal than Texas, but yet the treatment of immigration issues has been night and day," said Rogelio Saenz, a sociology professor at Texas A&M University.

The Texas Republican Party added hard-line immigration language to its platform last year in response to the demands of its conservative base. It included the line "No amnesty! No how. No way," and a call to "suspend automatic U.S. citizenship to children born to illegal immigrant parents," the idea now proposed by Berman.

Latino leaders say they are stunned by the Texas proposals to deny services to children. They promise retaliation at the ballot box.

"How could anyone be so mean-spirited?" said Rosa Rosales, president of the League of United Latin American Citizens, the nation's oldest Latino civil rights group, which originated in Texas. "We're just going to have to get the community out to show these representatives that we matter."

For undocumented Texans such as Ofelia Lopez, the state's push to get tough on illegal immigrants elicits sadness as much as fear. Lopez , who crossed into the U.S. from Mexico seven years ago with the hope that she could give her children a better life, has two daughters, one 3 years old and one 6 months old, who are U.S. citizens.

"I don't think the solution is to deny children the opportunity to become better people. That's not going to help anyone," said Lopez, 35, who also has a 15-year-old daughter born in Mexico who is attending a Texas high school. "That's not going to stop people from coming here. People are coming here because it's the only way to survive."

Last year, state lawmakers nationwide proposed a record 570 immigration measures, and 84 were signed into law, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. The group predicts that immigration will again be among the hottest state issues in 2007.

In Texas, Democratic state Rep. Pete Gallego, head of the Mexican American Legislative Caucus in the House, said that though some of the new proposals were harsh, a few might have momentum, particularly the bills to tax wire transfers.

"People are appalled at how hard core some of these things are," Gallego said. "We will have a fight."

Texas Gov. Rick Perry, a conservative Republican who talked tough on illegal immigration during his reelection campaign last year, has tempered his rhetoric in recent weeks, and sounded a message of compassion and unity during his oath-of-office address last month. He has singled out Berman's proposal as divisive.

Berman counters that his bill may not make him the darling of Austin's lobbyists or the governor, but he is convinced his cause is popular.

"My mail is running 30 to 1 in favor of what I am trying to do," he said.

"This problem is costing Texas money. Texas has to act."

I totally agree 100%!!!!
Illegal immigrants should be denied all public services including emergency medical care...thge only public service they should be given is the Grayhound Bus back to Mexico!!

Legal immigrants on the other hand should be afforded all public services whicxh they are eligible seeing as how they took the time to immigrate legally!!
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,439
80
91
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: babylon5
That is so meannnnn!! You Americans won't pay for illegals hospital billls and make anchor babies anymore! How dare you? You won't let illegals abuse 14th Amendment that was intended for slaves? What's wrong with you people?? Americans owe illegal's God given right to pay for hospital stay to over crowded school. Dont' be so mean, you people are so mean and heartless! I hate you!!!!!! [picture teens acting out in front of you, yes, like that]

[Sarcastic mode off]


Article

By Miguel Bustillo
Times Staff Writer

February 27, 2007

AUSTIN, TEXAS ? The Lone Star State has long welcomed Latino immigrants, no matter how they got across the state's 1,200-mile border with Mexico.

Back when California voted to cut public services to illegal immigrants, then-Texas Gov. George W. Bush was preaching that immigrants were equal players in the state's economy.

But the atmosphere has changed markedly in Texas, home to about 10% of the nation's illegal immigrants.

Now, a growing chorus of Republicans and some Democrats is pushing some of the harshest immigration-related measures in the United States ? laws that would not only deny public services to illegal immigrants but strip their American-born children of benefits as well.

The proposal to deny services to American citizens, which is thought to be the first in the country, is part of a push to challenge the citizenship given automatically to children born in this country to illegal immigrants.

Prior rulings have affirmed that nearly all such children were entitled to birthright citizenship under the 14th Amendment. But some legal scholars have questioned whether the amendment, which redefined national citizenship to include the children of slaves after the Civil War, should cover babies born to foreign parents.

The Pew Hispanic Center estimated last year that more than 3 million U.S. citizens were born to illegal immigrant parents.

"The Texas bill could be a vehicle to get this before the courts, and we strongly support that," said Ira Mehlman, a spokesman for the Federation for American Immigration Reform, which has been pushing Congress to revisit the 14th Amendment. "There is no question that it is time for a review, given the number of people entering the country illegally and giving birth."

Texas' shift toward a more incendiary brand of immigration politics comes at a time when many state lawmakers are frustrated that Washington has failed to stop illegal immigration. Few think President Bush's moderate proposals, which include a guest worker program and enhanced border security, will help much, even if they are approved by Congress.

State Rep. Leo Berman, the Republican legislator who wrote the bill to deny benefits to the children of illegal immigrants, admits that his goal is to set off a fight in the federal courts.

His legislation has been compared to Proposition 187, which was ruled unconstitutional after California voters approved it in 1994, but it goes further. It would deny citizens born to illegal immigrants numerous state services, including unemployment benefits and the ability to obtain professional licenses.

"A pregnant illegal alien can wait at the border, check into a hospital in Texas, give birth without paying a penny, and be rewarded for her illegal behavior," Berman said. "That's outrageous."

Berman's bill is one of more than two dozen proposals targeting illegal immigration in Texas. Other measures would tax money that illegal immigrants wire abroad; require patients to prove they are in the country legally before receiving state medical services; eliminate in-state college tuition breaks for illegal immigrants; and require state agencies to do a thorough accounting of how much illegal immigration is costing the state. Texas is home to about 1 million to 2 million illegal immigrants.

"Why should illegal immigrants, who by virtue of being in the country have broken the law, be able to get the same state services as a citizen?" asked state Sen. Royce West, a Democrat from Dallas who is proposing one of several measures to tax remittances to Mexico. He said his legislation was one way to raise money for healthcare programs.

Texas politicians say that proposing such laws would have been unimaginable a decade ago. During his days as governor, Bush regularly praised the cultural and economic contributions Latino immigrants were making to the state. His political strategy paid off: He won 40% of the Latino vote in 1998, a number previously considered unreachable for a Republican.

Bush's approach was a stark contrast from the immigration politics in California during the tenure of Gov. Pete Wilson, who backed Proposition 187, using it to win reelection.

"California has always been more liberal than Texas, but yet the treatment of immigration issues has been night and day," said Rogelio Saenz, a sociology professor at Texas A&M University.

The Texas Republican Party added hard-line immigration language to its platform last year in response to the demands of its conservative base. It included the line "No amnesty! No how. No way," and a call to "suspend automatic U.S. citizenship to children born to illegal immigrant parents," the idea now proposed by Berman.

Latino leaders say they are stunned by the Texas proposals to deny services to children. They promise retaliation at the ballot box.

"How could anyone be so mean-spirited?" said Rosa Rosales, president of the League of United Latin American Citizens, the nation's oldest Latino civil rights group, which originated in Texas. "We're just going to have to get the community out to show these representatives that we matter."

For undocumented Texans such as Ofelia Lopez, the state's push to get tough on illegal immigrants elicits sadness as much as fear. Lopez , who crossed into the U.S. from Mexico seven years ago with the hope that she could give her children a better life, has two daughters, one 3 years old and one 6 months old, who are U.S. citizens.

"I don't think the solution is to deny children the opportunity to become better people. That's not going to help anyone," said Lopez, 35, who also has a 15-year-old daughter born in Mexico who is attending a Texas high school. "That's not going to stop people from coming here. People are coming here because it's the only way to survive."

Last year, state lawmakers nationwide proposed a record 570 immigration measures, and 84 were signed into law, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. The group predicts that immigration will again be among the hottest state issues in 2007.

In Texas, Democratic state Rep. Pete Gallego, head of the Mexican American Legislative Caucus in the House, said that though some of the new proposals were harsh, a few might have momentum, particularly the bills to tax wire transfers.

"People are appalled at how hard core some of these things are," Gallego said. "We will have a fight."

Texas Gov. Rick Perry, a conservative Republican who talked tough on illegal immigration during his reelection campaign last year, has tempered his rhetoric in recent weeks, and sounded a message of compassion and unity during his oath-of-office address last month. He has singled out Berman's proposal as divisive.

Berman counters that his bill may not make him the darling of Austin's lobbyists or the governor, but he is convinced his cause is popular.

"My mail is running 30 to 1 in favor of what I am trying to do," he said.

"This problem is costing Texas money. Texas has to act."

I totally agree 100%!!!!
Illegal immigrants should be denied all public services including emergency medical care...thge only public service they should be given is the Grayhound Bus back to Mexico!!

Legal immigrants on the other hand should be afforded all public services whicxh they are eligible seeing as how they took the time to immigrate legally!!


I support this :thumbsup:!

Send em back and let them use the LEGAL means available to become US citizens.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: babylon5
That is so meannnnn!! You Americans won't pay for illegals hospital billls and make anchor babies anymore! How dare you? You won't let illegals abuse 14th Amendment that was intended for slaves? What's wrong with you people?? Americans owe illegal's God given right to pay for hospital stay to over crowded school. Dont' be so mean, you people are so mean and heartless! I hate you!!!!!! [picture teens acting out in front of you, yes, like that]

[Sarcastic mode off]


Article

By Miguel Bustillo
Times Staff Writer

February 27, 2007

AUSTIN, TEXAS ? The Lone Star State has long welcomed Latino immigrants, no matter how they got across the state's 1,200-mile border with Mexico.

Back when California voted to cut public services to illegal immigrants, then-Texas Gov. George W. Bush was preaching that immigrants were equal players in the state's economy.

But the atmosphere has changed markedly in Texas, home to about 10% of the nation's illegal immigrants.

Now, a growing chorus of Republicans and some Democrats is pushing some of the harshest immigration-related measures in the United States ? laws that would not only deny public services to illegal immigrants but strip their American-born children of benefits as well.

The proposal to deny services to American citizens, which is thought to be the first in the country, is part of a push to challenge the citizenship given automatically to children born in this country to illegal immigrants.

Prior rulings have affirmed that nearly all such children were entitled to birthright citizenship under the 14th Amendment. But some legal scholars have questioned whether the amendment, which redefined national citizenship to include the children of slaves after the Civil War, should cover babies born to foreign parents.

The Pew Hispanic Center estimated last year that more than 3 million U.S. citizens were born to illegal immigrant parents.

"The Texas bill could be a vehicle to get this before the courts, and we strongly support that," said Ira Mehlman, a spokesman for the Federation for American Immigration Reform, which has been pushing Congress to revisit the 14th Amendment. "There is no question that it is time for a review, given the number of people entering the country illegally and giving birth."

Texas' shift toward a more incendiary brand of immigration politics comes at a time when many state lawmakers are frustrated that Washington has failed to stop illegal immigration. Few think President Bush's moderate proposals, which include a guest worker program and enhanced border security, will help much, even if they are approved by Congress.

State Rep. Leo Berman, the Republican legislator who wrote the bill to deny benefits to the children of illegal immigrants, admits that his goal is to set off a fight in the federal courts.

His legislation has been compared to Proposition 187, which was ruled unconstitutional after California voters approved it in 1994, but it goes further. It would deny citizens born to illegal immigrants numerous state services, including unemployment benefits and the ability to obtain professional licenses.

"A pregnant illegal alien can wait at the border, check into a hospital in Texas, give birth without paying a penny, and be rewarded for her illegal behavior," Berman said. "That's outrageous."

Berman's bill is one of more than two dozen proposals targeting illegal immigration in Texas. Other measures would tax money that illegal immigrants wire abroad; require patients to prove they are in the country legally before receiving state medical services; eliminate in-state college tuition breaks for illegal immigrants; and require state agencies to do a thorough accounting of how much illegal immigration is costing the state. Texas is home to about 1 million to 2 million illegal immigrants.

"Why should illegal immigrants, who by virtue of being in the country have broken the law, be able to get the same state services as a citizen?" asked state Sen. Royce West, a Democrat from Dallas who is proposing one of several measures to tax remittances to Mexico. He said his legislation was one way to raise money for healthcare programs.

Texas politicians say that proposing such laws would have been unimaginable a decade ago. During his days as governor, Bush regularly praised the cultural and economic contributions Latino immigrants were making to the state. His political strategy paid off: He won 40% of the Latino vote in 1998, a number previously considered unreachable for a Republican.

Bush's approach was a stark contrast from the immigration politics in California during the tenure of Gov. Pete Wilson, who backed Proposition 187, using it to win reelection.

"California has always been more liberal than Texas, but yet the treatment of immigration issues has been night and day," said Rogelio Saenz, a sociology professor at Texas A&M University.

The Texas Republican Party added hard-line immigration language to its platform last year in response to the demands of its conservative base. It included the line "No amnesty! No how. No way," and a call to "suspend automatic U.S. citizenship to children born to illegal immigrant parents," the idea now proposed by Berman.

Latino leaders say they are stunned by the Texas proposals to deny services to children. They promise retaliation at the ballot box.

"How could anyone be so mean-spirited?" said Rosa Rosales, president of the League of United Latin American Citizens, the nation's oldest Latino civil rights group, which originated in Texas. "We're just going to have to get the community out to show these representatives that we matter."

For undocumented Texans such as Ofelia Lopez, the state's push to get tough on illegal immigrants elicits sadness as much as fear. Lopez , who crossed into the U.S. from Mexico seven years ago with the hope that she could give her children a better life, has two daughters, one 3 years old and one 6 months old, who are U.S. citizens.

"I don't think the solution is to deny children the opportunity to become better people. That's not going to help anyone," said Lopez, 35, who also has a 15-year-old daughter born in Mexico who is attending a Texas high school. "That's not going to stop people from coming here. People are coming here because it's the only way to survive."

Last year, state lawmakers nationwide proposed a record 570 immigration measures, and 84 were signed into law, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. The group predicts that immigration will again be among the hottest state issues in 2007.

In Texas, Democratic state Rep. Pete Gallego, head of the Mexican American Legislative Caucus in the House, said that though some of the new proposals were harsh, a few might have momentum, particularly the bills to tax wire transfers.

"People are appalled at how hard core some of these things are," Gallego said. "We will have a fight."

Texas Gov. Rick Perry, a conservative Republican who talked tough on illegal immigration during his reelection campaign last year, has tempered his rhetoric in recent weeks, and sounded a message of compassion and unity during his oath-of-office address last month. He has singled out Berman's proposal as divisive.

Berman counters that his bill may not make him the darling of Austin's lobbyists or the governor, but he is convinced his cause is popular.

"My mail is running 30 to 1 in favor of what I am trying to do," he said.

"This problem is costing Texas money. Texas has to act."

I totally agree 100%!!!!
Illegal immigrants should be denied all public services including emergency medical care...thge only public service they should be given is the Grayhound Bus back to Mexico!!

Legal immigrants on the other hand should be afforded all public services whicxh they are eligible seeing as how they took the time to immigrate legally!!


I support this :thumbsup:!

Send em back and let them use the LEGAL means available to become US citizens.

That's what seems to be lost in this whole discussion, the legal means are ridiculously complicated, time consuming and expensive. Like anything else, when you have artificial limits so far out of bounds with reality, you get a black market. You want to crack down on illegal immigrants? Great, but I also think we need to make it easier to get here legally...because, while people focus on the free social services aspect, there are more reasons for coming here than that.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Rainsford
That's what seems to be lost in this whole discussion, the legal means are ridiculously complicated, time consuming and expensive. Like anything else, when you have artificial limits so far out of bounds with reality, you get a black market. You want to crack down on illegal immigrants? Great, but I also think we need to make it easier to get here legally...because, while people focus on the free social services aspect, there are more reasons for coming here than that.
Reworking the legal immigration laws and processes would be a great first step; but, in the meantime, nothing excuses criminal behavior - that includes entering our country illegally - and they should certainly not be rewarded for their efforts.

A one-way ticket back to the country of OUR choice would be better... and funnier.
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,439
80
91
Originally posted by: Rainsford

That's what seems to be lost in this whole discussion, the legal means are ridiculously complicated, time consuming and expensive.


They can pay a mule 3k dollars, walk for days in the sun without water or food, hide in trucks, tunnel under fences, swim the rivers, dodge the Minutemen (lol), etc....that all seems complicated, dangerous, time consuming, and expensive.

 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
15
81
I think Illegal part pretty much null and voids public assistance. Anchor babies well they are cute... not thier fault to me and we are responsible for their parents being here by not enforcing our boarders. At least these kids will speak english. :)

We need to close the boarders and keep the population that we have here. Make them citizens if they are productive Americans. If they are criminals either deport them or create a facility just for illegals from every nation and deduct that expense from the millions we give to the UN and Canada since we have too many Canadians here. j/k
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
As a LEGAL immigrant in the U.S. and a taxpayer (damn you state of NY, NJ and MI!) I fully support this measure.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,004
8,039
136
Thank you Texas, may you lead the way for a national change of policy. It is time to end this before 1/3rd of our nation consists of the third world.
 

Arcex

Senior member
Mar 23, 2005
722
0
0
Last I checked illegal immigrants aren't supposed to have rights. That whole Constitution thing, I'm pretty sure they're talking about AMERICANS in there. It would be pretty stupid to create a document that outlines the articles of governship and the rights of people for ANOTHER COUNTRY.
 

michaels

Banned
Nov 30, 2005
4,329
0
0
Originally posted by: Arcex
Last I checked illegal immigrants aren't supposed to have rights. That whole Constitution thing, I'm pretty sure they're talking about AMERICANS in there. It would be pretty stupid to create a document that outlines the articles of governship and the rights of people for ANOTHER COUNTRY.

get that common sense out of here! It has no place in politics.
 

Arcex

Senior member
Mar 23, 2005
722
0
0
Originally posted by: michaels
Originally posted by: Arcex
Last I checked illegal immigrants aren't supposed to have rights. That whole Constitution thing, I'm pretty sure they're talking about AMERICANS in there. It would be pretty stupid to create a document that outlines the articles of governship and the rights of people for ANOTHER COUNTRY.

get that common sense out of here! It has no place in politics.

You're right, you're right, I don't know what I was thinking. I better go watch some Fox News and get these independent thoughts out of my head.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
Originally posted by: Arcex
Last I checked illegal immigrants aren't supposed to have rights. That whole Constitution thing, I'm pretty sure they're talking about AMERICANS in there. It would be pretty stupid to create a document that outlines the articles of governship and the rights of people for ANOTHER COUNTRY.

Actually I was under the impression that rights are inherent and unalienable to all, where as writs are something that you are granted.


When you read the ammendments verbatim, they actually spell it out though:
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
 

Arcex

Senior member
Mar 23, 2005
722
0
0
I meant they weren't supposed to have rights granted to us in the Constitution.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Thank you Texas, may you lead the way for a national change of policy. It is time to end this before 1/3rd of our nation consists of the third world.

1/3 of the country has been "third world" for a long time, its called the south. ;)
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
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Originally posted by: Arcex
I meant they weren't supposed to have rights granted to us in the Constitution.

Ok Mr. Legal Scholar.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,338
1,215
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Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: Arcex
I meant they weren't supposed to have rights granted to us in the Constitution.

Ok Mr. Legal Scholar.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

So women are not endowed with unalienable Rights?

 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
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I really don't see the problem with giving basic human services to illegals, they are humans after alll, as much as some people would like to think otherwise.

As for the anchor baby thing, lets not try to go to a euro-style system where we start having thrid and four generation citizes not being citizens because they are not "french" or "german". It causes enough problems there, why we would go to such a system here is beyond me.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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It's easy to propose stupid laws when you know they are unconstitutional. You can pander to every racist and nationalist without having to deal with the consequences.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
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Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: Arcex
Last I checked illegal immigrants aren't supposed to have rights. That whole Constitution thing, I'm pretty sure they're talking about AMERICANS in there. It would be pretty stupid to create a document that outlines the articles of governship and the rights of people for ANOTHER COUNTRY.

Actually I was under the impression that rights are inherent and unalienable to all, where as writs are something that you are granted.


When you read the ammendments verbatim, they actually spell it out though:
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


Key word being citizens.......key word says nothing about illegals who are NOT citizens!!
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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That's what seems to be lost in this whole discussion, the legal means are ridiculously complicated, time consuming and expensive. Like anything else, when you have artificial limits so far out of bounds with reality, you get a black market. You want to crack down on illegal immigrants? Great, but I also think we need to make it easier to get here legally...because, while people focus on the free social services aspect, there are more reasons for coming here than that.

No what seems lost in the discussion is the questioning if we need any immigrants at all from anywhere with our massively unemployed inner cities, Rust Belt cavitating and bankrupt public services... instead it's just assumed the more the merrier and you take the next logical leap, lets make it easier. I don't have a problem with giving basic human services to or any rights Americans enjoy to anyone on our soil including illegals I just question the need for more Americans.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
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Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: Arcex
Last I checked illegal immigrants aren't supposed to have rights. That whole Constitution thing, I'm pretty sure they're talking about AMERICANS in there. It would be pretty stupid to create a document that outlines the articles of governship and the rights of people for ANOTHER COUNTRY.

Actually I was under the impression that rights are inherent and unalienable to all, where as writs are something that you are granted.


When you read the ammendments verbatim, they actually spell it out though:
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


Key word being citizens.......key word says nothing about illegals who are NOT citizens!!


read the second thing in itallic...