Texas Pete's Hot Sauce, sued for not being from Texas. (The family and factory in which it's made is fron NC.)

[[DHT]Osiris]

Ackshewelly, the post that started this entire back-and-forth today was this one, whereupon I continually referred to the Barilla situation afterwards. You replied to that one, and here we are, with you claiming you don't care about the Barilla thing when that's literally all I've been talking about. I DEMAND RETRIBUTION!

(This is a callback to the heavy metal thread also going on today )

Okay, for today's purposes fair enough, but my response to that isn't any less valid, just because they suck at manipulating you doesn't mean it isn't manipulation.

To make the hot sauce. Oh wait, I make my own, but I don't mine for the salt, get the water from a stream, make the appliances used, nor the bottles, etc.

I do have to rely on my self to read the labels on my seed containers when I start crops in spring. If I didn't and instead of hot peppers, I ended up with bells, whose fault is that?

If you failed to read what the product said it was? Yours. If the product label says 'Fucking hotass carolina reapers bro!*' and on the back it says '*bell peppers, go fuck yourself', that shouldn't be on you. Otherwise what's the point in being honest about anything on the front label? Just sell bags of rice labeled as whatever bullshit people are talking about on social media and don't worry about it.

 

[mindless1]

If the product label says 'Fucking hotass carolina reapers bro!*' and on the back it says '*bell peppers, go fuck yourself', that shouldn't be on you.

If there is a back label at all, let alone an asterisk, I'm reading it if further info is important to me. This is no exaggeration, for example I do it every time I buy food/spice/vitamin/etc on Amazon that I'm not already familiar with. In a store on a shelf, it is that much easier, though in stores I shop by advertised sales on things I've already got on a shopping list... not an impulse buyer.

We've gone off on a tangent and it comes back to what I stated previously, that Texas comes before Pete as an adjective, a descriptor of Pete, not before hot sauce, and as labeled is clearly a company brand with that logo, selling multiple things besides hot sauce. We don't live in a vacuum, the total is the sum of the parts, including the back label because there is one.

 

[BoomerD]

If the hot sauce said "Texas Pete's Made in Texas hot sauce," there would be an issue. (a minor one, but an issue none the less)

HOWEVER, merely being called "Texas Pete's" doesn't in any way imply that the product is actually manufactured in Texas. Hell, it could be made in China and still be legal. IMO, what would be improper...and illegal is if the info on the back said "Made in Texas" but was actually made in New York City. (Git a rope!)

I ordered a California burrito the other day at a local taqueria here in Washington...no part of it was made in California...should I sue? It didn't say "California-style burrito." I've been defrauded!

Fckn Shakespeare was right. Kill all the lawyers first.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

If there is a back label at all, let alone an asterisk, I'm reading it if further info is important to me. This is no exaggeration, for example I do it every time I buy food/spice/vitamin/etc on Amazon that I'm not already familiar with. In a store on a shelf, it is that much easier, though in stores I shop by advertised sales on things I've already got on a shopping list... not an impulse buyer.

Right, so you've been conditioned to be mistrusting of advertising/labeling, probably because you've been lied to/manipulated, probably more than once. It'd be a hell of a lot easier if that weren't permitted, so we could just, y'know, trust what the fucking label said instead of investigating every. single. thing.

 

[BoomerD]

Right, so you've been conditioned to be mistrusting of advertising/labeling, probably because you've been lied to/manipulated, probably more than once. It'd be a hell of a lot easier if that weren't permitted, so we could just, y'know, trust what the fucking label said instead of investigating every. single. thing.

In a perfect world...sure. BUT...companies lie, twist the truth, and hide origins all the time. I've advocated for a law that requires ALL food sources to be listed. Maybe not individual ingredients...the label for some foods would read like the NYC phone book...but at least where the product itself was made...and if any significant ingredients were imported...and from what country.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

In a perfect world...sure. BUT...companies lie, twist the truth, and hide origins all the time. I've advocated for a law that requires ALL food sources to be listed. Maybe not individual ingredients...the label for some foods would read like the NYC phone book...but at least where the product itself was made...and if any significant ingredients were imported...and from what country.

Exactly, companies do lie, because they're permitted to do so, because we have inadequate truth in advertising laws, as well as inadequate consumer protection laws. Humans are very predictable, and we WILL push any limits imposed on us, so the limits need to adapt to the ways in which they are challenged. I love the idea of all food sources being listed. I'd also advocate for all food ingredients listed, no hiding behind 'natural flavors and colors'. While we're on the subject, 'nitrate free' while using nitrate-laden celery powder is yet another pet peeve. Hell, let me just summarize that one with an xkcd.

 

[mindless1]

Right, so you've been conditioned to be mistrusting of advertising/labeling, probably because you've been lied to/manipulated, probably more than once. It'd be a hell of a lot easier if that weren't permitted, so we could just, y'know, trust what the fucking label said instead of investigating every. single. thing.

Would it really be easier?

I don't want the entire body of knowledge about a product, crammed together in a tiny font on a front label. That's what the back of the label is for while the front is just a place for a brand logo I recognize, and larger font to see it from a distance.

If I actually have to make the effort... to step closer... and lift... my arm... and lift... the product... to put it ... in my cart... how much extra effort is it to swivel the package to see the back, instead of just reading it on the front?

It is well established that the back label is for further info so everything isn't crammed on the front. This is a pretty common thing, normal.

Back to trust, that is subjective. There is no lie, Texas Pete's is the brand that makes the sauce. It seems more like a mistrust of reading comprehension, that the order words are written in, matters.

I agree that we have inadequate truth in advertising laws, but feel like it's too far of a stretch to apply that rationale in this case. There is no evidence that hot sauce made outside of Tx is of lower value so where is the damage? I'd even argue the opposite, that there was this one time my uncle from Tx came up to visit and I had a bottle of my sauce on the table, and he figured he's seen it all. He struggled finishing that meal.

Recognize the difference. If you want better truth in advertising laws then you petition your representatives to change the law, not single out one company and sue for profit. If the deception is so widespread, this is the fair thing to do instead of trying to penalize one company and make an example of them for the rest, at their expense.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Would it really be easier?

I don't want the entire body of knowledge about a product, crammed together in a tiny font on a front label. That's what the back of the label is for while the front is just a place for a brand logo I recognize, and larger font to see it from a distance.

If I actually have to make the effort... to step closer... and lift... my arm... and lift... the product... to put it ... in my cart... how much extra effort is it to swivel the package to see the back, instead of just reading it on the front?

It is well established that the back label is for further info so everything isn't crammed on the front. This is a pretty common thing, normal.

Back to trust, that is subjective. There is no lie, Texas Pete's is the brand that makes the sauce. It seems more like a mistrust of reading comprehension, that the order words are written in, matters.

I agree that we have inadequate truth in advertising laws, but feel like it's too far of a stretch to apply that rationale in this case. There is no evidence that hot sauce made outside of Tx is of lower value so where is the damage?

Maybe, but if the bread says whole grain, what does that mean? Does it mean *not* whole grain? Should we just accept that one can advertise something that's just blatantly not true, because it's close enough to fly under the radar and 'buyer beware' and 'you should have checked the label', or should we be telling the fucking liars to go fuck themselves and run them out of town, as we would have a snake oil salesman 200 years ago?

Whole grains or no grains? Food labels can be misleading - Harvard Health

Food labels contain useful information about the nutritional value of the product, but a recent study found that consumers are more likely to be swayed by potentially misleading language on ...

www.health.harvard.edu

Don’t rely on front-of-the-package marketing. Just because the package shows a photo of a beautiful wheat field does not necessarily mean its contents are made with a whole grain. Even packages that say “multigrain,” “wheat,” “double fiber,” “cracked wheat,” “7 grain,” “stone ground,” “enriched,” “fortified,” or “made with whole grains” may be mostly enriched white flour.

It's funny, you don't see this with things like gasoline, where the octane ratings actually matter or engines can be damaged. When was the last time you saw a '90+ octane' at a pump? or 'high quality octane'? maybe 'whole ocane gasoline'? Almost like regulatory requirements keep that shit in line.

 

[mindless1]

Maybe, but if the bread says whole grain, what does that mean? Does it mean *not* whole grain?

First I should mention that I've added more to my prior post, but this is not the same thing. If it read Texas Pete's whole grain, then I would only assume that the company named texas pete's is selling whole grain, not that it was grown in Tx.

Should we just accept that one can advertise something that's just blatantly not true, because it's close enough to fly under the radar and 'buyer beware' and 'you should have checked the label', or should we be telling the fucking liars to go fuck themselves and run them out of town, as we would have a snake oil salesman 200 years ago?

What you are stating, is blatantly not true. Texas Pete's did not advertise that the sauce was made in Tx. Again, the order of words in a language matters.

Whole grains or no grains? Food labels can be misleading - Harvard Health

Food labels contain useful information about the nutritional value of the product, but a recent study found that consumers are more likely to be swayed by potentially misleading language on ...

www.health.harvard.edu

View attachment 69570

It's funny, you don't see this with things like gasoline, where the octane ratings actually matter or engines can be damaged. When was the last time you saw a '90+ octane' at a pump? or 'high quality octane'? maybe 'whole ocane gasoline'? Almost like regulatory requirements keep that shit in line.

Not funny, rather appropriate. It's because they more tightly regulate when it matters. Whether the sauce was made in Tx or elsewhere, not so much. Back to damages, what damages from it being made elsewhere? This is not a crusade against world wide marketing, this is a topic about a hot sauce lawsuit. Venting about the entire marketing industry, is not helpful unless you do as already stated and petition your legislators for change.

Meh, I make my own sauce, can't see ever buying a $3 bottle of anything so this topic has exceeded my attention span. Carry on...

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I agree that we have inadequate truth in advertising laws, but feel like it's too far of a stretch to apply that rationale in this case. There is no evidence that hot sauce made outside of Tx is of lower value so where is the damage? I'd even argue the opposite, that there was this one time my uncle from Tx came up to visit and I had a bottle of my sauce on the table, and he figured he's seen it all. He struggled finishing that meal.

Recognize the difference. If you want better truth in advertising laws then you petition your representatives to change the law, not single out one company and sue for profit. If the deception is so widespread, this is the fair thing to do instead of trying to penalize one company and make an example of them for the rest, at their expense.

This part I would agree with. If I were to be required to lawyer up specifically to argue for damage, I'd say erosion of societal trust and conditioning to further manipulation, as I would an abusive partner or something to that effect. It'd be far more logical to target it from the top down, however, and not prod at specific entities.

Texas Pete's did not advertise that the sauce was made in Tx. Again, the order of words in a language matters.

I agree that it wasn't advertising that the sauce was made in Tx. Doesn't change the fact that it's intending to send a message to be perceived by the purchaser, with the sole purpose of separating them from their money. That I have a problem with.

 

[MrSquished]

I agree with TornMind - the olive oil thing is bullshit. So much olive oil is literally mislabeled on purpose as Made in Italy when it's often from Greece and Spain. Now that is truly false advertising.

 

[Torn Mind]

This part I would agree with. If I were to be required to lawyer up specifically to argue for damage, I'd say erosion of societal trust and conditioning to further manipulation, as I would an abusive partner or something to that effect. It'd be far more logical to target it from the top down, however, and not prod at specific entities.

This and other cases have listed violations of stricter California and/or New York state laws in addition to more general federal laws. Thus, there is already a more "top-down" component to these cases. It also is a way to show these states hold considerable power in a subtle way, one not taught in schools.

Many key laws do require argument and "lawyering up", including key civil rights laws.
Many laws are passed in response to case results, not the other way around. The legal system is basically the beta testing grounds for laws and for the politicians to possibly take note of them.

These cases are basically advocacy on the part of left-leaning judges interested in protecting the little guy and the legal industry of NY and California, with the class action Plaintiff highly likely to be someone the lawyers know.

Based on the political leanings of the judges deciding these cases, their interpretation of "reasonable person" in these cases is to accommodate the less "savvy" individuals. Possibly less education, language barrier, etc. Cases take a life long after the original dispute is finished, where they can be cited in future cases. It seems some of the judges are simply allowing the cases to survive a motion to dismiss so the company decides whether to defend themselves later in the process or simply settle. They are Obama appointees, and thus a manifestation of his legacy and the voters that voted for him. I do support this form of consumer protection, as my personal experience with olive oil leads me to believe that info intended to induce the action of purchase must contain some degree of accuracy.

The early stage of a case like motion to dismiss is more to see if the pleading/complaint itself has meat on its bones to allow to proceed to the next step.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Sure, I mean, it's just a simple lie. No big deal. As long as you say 'the front of the package is a lie' on the back it's all kosher right? Including kosher products?

But it is not a lie. The person suing is just bad at grammar. Anyone that knows elementary grammar knows that if something is called 'Texas Pete' then it is a name, and not a signifier of location. To make it a signifier of location it would have to be Texas' Pete. That would make it so that Pete would belong to (or in this case in) Texas.
Did anyone think that Austin Powers was supposed to be from Austin, Texas? No. We recognize it as a name.

There's plenty of other examples of outright lies that are asterix'd into legal compliance

That is a completely different thing. They are making assertations that they claim can't be disproven. Where something comes from can be proven. They could not get away with making a provably false claim and then asterixing it out on the back (unless they were doing it for satire, and then we run into a whole different issue).

 

[Captante]

Idk..... I pretty much just assume that nearly all advertising is completely full of $hit and aside from using it to identify the product or the brand I really don't pay much attention to the name/slogan OR anything listed on the front-label.

What I like to do is turn the package over and focus on the far more accurate information listed on the back! (in the order listed)

(1) The ingredients list. - *(listed in descending order... look for sugars!)
(2) The nutrition-label.
(3) The country/region of origin.

Reading and UNDERSTANDING the information contained here is one of the primary keys to having a healthier diet.... "big food" is NOT your friend all they care about is profit.


EDIT: I occasionally buy the hot version of "Six-Gun" chili seasoning mix when I'm feeling lazy and there's a picture of a cowboy on the label.... the stuff is made in Georgia. (which I know since I ALWAYS read the label!)

Frankly as long as it makes a half-decent pot of chili I don't care where they do the packaging. I have less of an issue with my $'s going to Georgia then I would Texas anyway.

 

[MrSquished]

Yeah, I go through a lot of hot sauce. I use the stuff like gravy.


Agree, YellowBird is good, it is very similar to Secret Aardvark which also has several flavors. I like Aardvark better, but that might change with my mood. I think I currently have like 20 hot sauces just on my table.


Cholula is good, but I like Valentina better. I like the stronger spice (maybe Cumin and Coriander?) flavor, and the mild heat, which honestly I often add some scorpion pepper sauce to kick it up, but I like that I can keep it mild when I want that.

shopping for hot sauces as gifts for Christmas and I saw yellowbird has a new one out. Just ordered one for myself; it sounds delicious. Probably will get a couple trio sets of hot sauces from a couple different seasons from the show Hot Ones as gifts. The semi-colon there is for @IronWing

This is the yellowbird

Plum Reaper Hot Sauce 6.7 oz.Default Title

For those who like it savory and sweet. The extra fiery Carolina Reaper Pepper paired with sweet and tart plums gives depth and complexity to this super–hot that allows this flavor extra versatility across sweet and savory dishes alike. TRY IT ON Tacos al Pastor, Vanilla Bean Ice Cream, Goat...

www.yellowbirdfoods.com

 

[SMOGZINN]

shopping for hot sauces as gifts for Christmas and I saw yellowbird has a new one out. Just ordered one for myself; it sounds delicious. Probably will get a couple trio sets of hot sauces from a couple different seasons from the show Hot Ones as gifts. The semi-colon there is for @IronWing

This is the yellowbird

Plum Reaper Hot Sauce 6.7 oz.Default Title

For those who like it savory and sweet. The extra fiery Carolina Reaper Pepper paired with sweet and tart plums gives depth and complexity to this super–hot that allows this flavor extra versatility across sweet and savory dishes alike. TRY IT ON Tacos al Pastor, Vanilla Bean Ice Cream, Goat...

www.yellowbirdfoods.com

While it does look delicious (and I'll probably have to pick up a bottle when they hit my local HEB) I might also have to sue them because there is no part of that sauce that comes from yellow birds.