Texas Pete's Hot Sauce, sued for not being from Texas. (The family and factory in which it's made is fron NC.)

[nakedfrog]

Such a similar line of thought is why the sugar industry in the U.S remains a monopoly/given government protection.

Hard disagree.

 

[nakedfrog]

You eyeroll, but those conditioning tactics have been used to abuse people for centuries. Manipulation is a fucking horrific tool, and we shouldn't normalize it just because someone wants our money.

And false equivalence be damned, blaming the victim is blaming the victim.

I don't think it's manipulation to expect a consumer to inform themselves with information readily available on a product's container, and it's UTTERLY ABSURD to make a comparison between this and victim blaming in rape.
Takes maybe five seconds to look at the package and see where it's made. What's false about saying Barilla is Italy's #1 pasta? Why does that imply the stuff on the shelf was made in Italy? We have bakeries and soda plants and everything everywhere. I don't see the "manipulation" here, is the Barilla made in Iowa worse, even if it's made from the same recipe, just because it's made in Iowa? How is there even a victim here? If it said "The finest Italian pasta" on the box, then maybe you've got a case for false advertising, but it doesn't.

 

[Captante]

Ugh, it's a fucking two dollar box of pasta. That's what I bought when I bought pasta, but I never harbored notions that it was made in Italy.

When Barilla was first available in the US some of it was the "made in Italy" kind but the pasta we get in CT now is made in NY State and the sauce (which isn't very good at all IMO) is made in the midwest.

Far as I can tell Barilla pasta is pretty much identical from either location (never had imported Barilla sauce) but that isn't always the case with formerly imported foods.

Take Newcastle Brown Ale for example which USED to be brewed in Newcastle on Tyne, England and was among my all-time favorite brews. Last time I had some I noticed it just didn't taste the same and it turns out it's now brewed by Lagunitas brewery in America. (wtf)

Long story short it's a now a decent brown ale but IT IS NOT Newcastle Brown ale anymore... not even close. (another serious bummer was Canada's Moosehead brewery taking over making Harp)

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I don't think it's manipulation to expect a consumer to inform themselves with information readily available on a product's container, and it's UTTERLY ABSURD to make a comparison between this and victim blaming in rape.
Takes maybe five seconds to look at the package and see where it's made. What's false about saying Barilla is Italy's #1 pasta? Why does that imply the stuff on the shelf was made in Italy? We have bakeries and soda plants and everything everywhere. I don't see the "manipulation" here, is the Barilla made in Iowa worse, even if it's made from the same recipe, just because it's made in Iowa? How is there even a victim here? If it said "The finest Italian pasta" on the box, then maybe you've got a case for false advertising, but it doesn't.

Ah, so you ascribe to the 'it doesn't affect me, so it doesn't count as wrong' house of morality. What are your opinions on public treatment of homelessness by chance?

 

[nakedfrog]

Ah, so you ascribe to the 'it doesn't affect me, so it doesn't count as wrong' house of morality. What are your opinions on public treatment of homelessness by chance?

LOL no. Ass.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

LOL no. Ass.

Okay then, how about predatory lending practices by collusion between banks and real estate firms leading up to the '08 housing crash? Was that just the victim's fault too? Shouldn't they have just read the paperwork?

 

[MrSquished]

The Sriracha shortage is real. First world problems

 

[UsandThem]

Okay then, how about predatory lending practices by collusion between banks and real estate firms leading up to the '08 housing crash? Was that just the victim's fault too? Shouldn't they have just read the paperwork?

Holy sweet baby Jeebus.

$2 hot sauce and pasta.

Not rape. Not homelessness. Not housing markets.

 

[Torn Mind]

Ah, so you ascribe to the 'it doesn't affect me, so it doesn't count as wrong' house of morality. What are your opinions on public treatment of homelessness by chance?

Maybe she just thinks no damage from injury means no injury?
My amateur research into law has made me realize "Injuria sine damno"(injury without damage) is a very real concept.

If someone simply walks through another's yard but doesn't do anything, it's still civil trespass, legally speaking. Now, to enforce that law, that would require considerable expenditure of time and money in a local circuit court, but should someone actually do that, that would be granted as a nominal judgment by a judge.
Due to the cost of enforcing the common law in civil court, obviously small trespasses are not enforced and thus a de facto state of anarchy exists regarding civil trespass without actual damage.

Injuria sine damno

SRDLawNotes provides law notes for Law Student and Lawyer, Covering all subjects including Law of Crime, Cyber Law, Insurance Law, Property Law, etc.

www.srdlawnotes.com

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Maybe she just thinks no damage from injury means no injury?
My amateur research into law has made me realize "Injuria sine damno"(injury without damage) is a very real concept.

If someone simply walks through another's yard but doesn't do anything, it's still civil trespass, legally speaking. Now, to enforce that law, that would require considerable expenditure of time and money in a local circuit court, but should someone actually do that, that would be granted as a nominal judgment by a judge.
Due to the cost of enforcing the common law in civil court, obviously small trespasses are not enforced and thus a de facto state of anarchy exists regarding civil trespass without actual damage.

Injuria sine damno

SRDLawNotes provides law notes for Law Student and Lawyer, Covering all subjects including Law of Crime, Cyber Law, Insurance Law, Property Law, etc.

www.srdlawnotes.com

And to clarify, I'm not stating that this stuff IS illegal, just that it should be.

 

[nakedfrog]

Okay then, how about predatory lending practices by collusion between banks and real estate firms leading up to the '08 housing crash? Was that just the victim's fault too? Shouldn't they have just read the paperwork?

I think there should be some minimal level of expectation that a consumer inform themselves, the product's origin is on the product packaging and is not misrepresented. I do not believe there is a victim here, other than society at large because no one wins here (besides the lawyers), the consumers will get a coupon for fifty cents off pasta, Barilla will update their packaging in some fashion, and lawyers will get a lot of money. No good will be accomplished.

 

[mindless1]

And false equivalence be damned, blaming the victim is blaming the victim.

While it may be a minority % of the time, often enough I do think the victim is partly to blame, including rapes and other assaults. I don't buy into the notion that people can entice and be blameless because there isn't a specific law against it. I bet that more often than not, I could use my freedom of speech to get someone to assault me IRL, and it would be my fault to some extent. It's just impossible to legislate every possible situation that might occur.

The world is as it is. We can idealize about how it might be better, but there is a little diligence required for someone to not just be a "victim" but also innocent in the exchange.

There are shades of gray and this shade, most wouldn't call gray at all. Subjective interpretation of being wronged, should include proof of damages and in this case I don't see any way to prove damages exceeding the cost of the $3(?) bottle of hot sauce and really, not even that because the sauce has a base value no matter where it was made, and even that is only if the grocery store and Texas Pete's refuses to give a refund. There is a burden of self-help.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I think there should be some minimal level of expectation that a consumer inform themselves, the product's origin is on the product packaging and is not misrepresented. I do not believe there is a victim here, other than society at large because no one wins here (besides the lawyers), the consumers will get a coupon for fifty cents off pasta, Barilla will update their packaging in some fashion, and lawyers will get a lot of money. No good will be accomplished.

We normalize new behaviors based on iterating previously normalized behaviors. Permitting snake oil salesmen iterates into intentionally branded false advertisement, which iterates into direct exploitation of human nature via advanced psychological techniques. If we nailed those intentional false advertisers to a fucking tree rather than sweeping under the rug of 'buyer beware', we wouldn't have to deal with shit like payday loans, aforementioned predatory lending practices, etc.

If we have to rely on ourselves for every goddamned thing, what's the point of having a civilization to begin with?

 

[nakedfrog]

We normalize new behaviors based on iterating previously normalized behaviors. Permitting snake oil salesmen iterates into intentionally branded false advertisement, which iterates into direct exploitation of human nature via advanced psychological techniques. If we nailed those intentional false advertisers to a fucking tree rather than sweeping under the rug of 'buyer beware', we wouldn't have to deal with shit like payday loans, aforementioned predatory lending practices, etc.

If we have to rely on ourselves for every goddamned thing, what's the point of having a civilization to begin with?

This isn't false advertising. This isn't snake oil. Minimal fucking due diligence to look at a fucking package and see where it's made.
It doesn't say it's made in Italy, it says this is the #1 brand in Italy. It says "Italians like this pasta, maybe you will too, they're known for their love of pasta".
This is NOT on the same level as any of the other windmills you're tilting at, and like I said, this class action lawsuit will accomplish NOTHING aside from fattening some lawyer's pockets and getting an asterisk that says "not made in Italy" on a box.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Minimal fucking due diligence to look at a fucking package and see where it's made.

Sure, I mean, it's just a simple lie. No big deal. As long as you say 'the front of the package is a lie' on the back it's all kosher right? Including kosher products?

For what it's worth, I agree with you regarding lawyers. More people not making it into the fallout shelters. Doesn't change my stance though.

Products should be black text on a white label, explaining what it is or what it does. Any deviance from product language or usage of relative terms should be punished harshly.

 

[nakedfrog]

Sure, I mean, it's just a simple lie. No big deal. As long as you say 'the front of the package is a lie' on the back it's all kosher right? Including kosher products?

It's not a lie. There is no lie taking place here. There is no manipulation.

For what it's worth, I agree with you regarding lawyers. More people not making it into the fallout shelters. Doesn't change my stance though.

Products should be black text on a white label, explaining what it is or what it does. Any deviance from product language or usage of relative terms should be punished harshly.

Nah, that's stupid.

 

[sactoking]

I mean, if McDonald's in Korea billed itself as "America's #1 brand of garbage fast food" would reasonable people expect that the McNuggets were sourced in the USA?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

It's not a lie. There is no lie taking place here. There is no manipulation.

Maybe not with Barilla. There's plenty of other examples of outright lies that are asterix'd into legal compliance (looking at you, entire homeopathic section of stores). It's also still manipulative and doesn't counter my original point about using psychological tactics to get money from people.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Maybe not with Barilla. There's plenty of other examples of outright lies that are asterix'd into legal compliance (looking at you, entire homeopathic section of stores).

If Barilla sold boxes, with pieces of paper inside with just PICTURES of pasta on them, that you were supposed to boil and SAY "tastes like pasta", THEN you might have a point of comparison to what "homeopathic" medications are like. Otherwise, it's a BAD analogy, and unnecessary hyperbole.

 

[nakedfrog]

Well, I'm bloody well talking about Barilla, have the decency to quit pretending I'm talking about other things or projecting my stance on this specific matter to assume I think rape victims were asking for it while I hunt the homeless for sport and get some guy to sign up for a payday loan to get a predatory mortgage for his new house, you cotton-headed ninny-muggins!

 

[VirtualLarry]

you cotton-headed ninny-muggins!

+1

 

[WelshBloke]

When Barilla was first available in the US some of it was the "made in Italy" kind but the pasta we get in CT now is made in NY State and the sauce (which isn't very good at all IMO) is made in the midwest.
Far as I can tell Barilla pasta is pretty much identical from either location (never had imported Barilla sauce) but that isn't always the case with formerly imported foods.

The Barilla pasta sauce in a jar from Italy is pretty nasty as well TBH, so you're not missing out.
I just checked on the bulk bag of store brand pasta that I use for the kids salads for their packed lunch. Yup! Made in Italy. I mean the flour for the pasta isn't necessarily from Italy, or even the EU. I guess that a Made in Italy product has to adhere to the stricter (than the US) food safety laws but I don't know if that would count if the stuff was strictly for export.
Anyway I dont see this as being the same as Californian wineries selling "Champagne". Pasta isnt a regional product, as long as the country of origin is clearly on the packet I dont see an issue.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Well, I'm bloody well talking about Barilla, have the decency to quit pretending I'm talking about other things or projecting my stance on this specific matter to assume I think rape victims were asking for it while I hunt the homeless for sport and get some guy to sign up for a payday loan to get a predatory mortgage for his new house, you cotton-headed ninny-muggins!

Ackshewelly, my first response to you was regarding the NY Bakery Texas Toast, which is from neither Texas (irrelevant) or NY (relevant). I give zero shits about Barilla specifically because afaik they aren't presenting anything false on the pasta. It's still manipulative but it's not false.

 

[nakedfrog]

Ackshewelly, my first response to you was regarding the NY Bakery Texas Toast, which is from neither Texas (irrelevant) or NY (relevant). I give zero shits about Barilla specifically because afaik they aren't presenting anything false on the pasta. It's still manipulative but it's not false.

Ackshewelly, the post that started this entire back-and-forth today was this one, whereupon I continually referred to the Barilla situation afterwards. You replied to that one, and here we are, with you claiming you don't care about the Barilla thing when that's literally all I've been talking about. I DEMAND RETRIBUTION!

Ugh, it's a fucking two dollar box of pasta. That's what I bought when I bought pasta, but I never harbored notions that it was made in Italy.

(This is a callback to the heavy metal thread also going on today )

 

[mindless1]

If we have to rely on ourselves for every goddamned thing, what's the point of having a civilization to begin with?

To make the hot sauce. Oh wait, I make my own, but I don't mine for the salt, get the water from a stream, make the appliances used, nor the bottles, etc.

I do have to rely on my self to read the labels on my seed containers when I start crops in spring. If I didn't and instead of hot peppers, I ended up with bells, whose fault is that?

IMO the relevance is that if there is a specific attribute about the product that is important to me, I keep reading until I determine that.