Texas Judge Rules For Cheerleaders In Bible Banner Suit

[SheHateMe]

Cheerleaders don't have brains.

 

[3chordcharlie]

If it were a verse from the Koran, the roles would be reversed. The right wing fringe would be trying to keep those Mooslims from tarnishing their sacred football games, while the left would be defending those poor minorities from the evil Christian wingnuts.

Why can't everybody just leave each other the fuck alone? Americans are such dimwits about some things.

this

 

[Gardener]

What if a coach who is an atheist doesn't allow a religious girl on? What if religious people are sourced to carry anti religious signs?

Is this a decision of the person wearing it? If the standard is such that banning those peoples freedom of expression gives way to keeping someones eyes from seeing things, then we've gone too far.

We've gone too far when an officially sanctioned school club at a public institution uses those public facilities to proselytize for a particular religion.

Its a great wedge issue for Rick Scott, however. Kudos to the Texan republican party for getting their folks riled up. It doesn't take much.

 

[Gardener]

Cheerleaders don't have brains.

prima facie ftw

 

[JTsyo]

We've gone too far when an officially sanctioned school club at a public institution uses those public facilities to proselytize for a particular religion.

Its a great wedge issue for Rick Scott, however. Kudos to the Texan republican party for getting their folks riled up. It doesn't take much.

I with you on this. If it were students in the crowd holding the banner that would be fine but the cheerleaders are a school club.

 

[Incorruptible]

If it were a verse from the Koran, the roles would be reversed. The right wing fringe would be trying to keep those Mooslims from tarnishing their sacred football games, while the left would be defending those poor minorities from the evil Christian wingnuts.

Why can't everybody just leave each other the fuck alone? Americans are such dimwits about some things.

You make a good point but how many Muslim cheerleaders are there, it looks like the majority of those girls were Christian

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I think Hayabusa missed my point, which woolfe seems to get - in the role of cheerleaders, they don't *have* free speech - they're required to do what the school through adminstrators to coaches, etc., want them to do (provided that's within the law.)

I think that the courts might not have an absolutist view. It would seem they agree so far. What you suggest is that becoming a cheerleader requires a surrender of Constitutional rights. These aren't employees even if they are performing a function, and they aren't grabbing a microphone and indoctrinating.

 

[WelshBloke]

WTH would anyone put a Bible verse on a football banner?

I guess there might be some Bible verse that could be relevant. Say, for example, the other team was known as the "Satanic Forces". Probably some Old Testament verse like (Ye shall smite the Satanic Forces with my power...". Nah, prolly not.

Fern

What about the

No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord.

one?

Could be an instruction to look after oneself on the field.

 

[nehalem256]

Let us peruse the text of the first Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Is Congress (or any government organization) doing anything to establish or support religion. No. In fact the complaint alleges the exact opposite.

Is the free exercise of religion being prevented by the government. It would seem so.

Is free speech being prohibited. It would seem so.

It seems to me like the ruling is correct. I guess if you are really bothered by cheerleaders using bible quotes at a HS football game move to an area of the country that is less religious.

 

[classy]

I don't see any problem with someone quoting something from the bible. I can't imagine what they are quoting for a football game though. But people quote stuff from all kinds of religous stuff.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

If the non-religious cheerleader is "forced" to hold up a religious sign, the only person who could be forcing that would be a school employee who is overseeing the cheerleading squad, right? That then would be a clear Establishment Clause violation. This particular case, assuming it is done entirely at the initiative of the individual cheerleaders, isn't so clear.

Assuming that I understand the situation correctly (and of course my argument hinges on this), this was entirely the decision on the part of the cheerleaders and that there was no suggestion that the school discriminated against someone who did not do what the others did.

Ruling otherwise is tantamount to a gag order.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Let us peruse the text of the first Amendment:


Is Congress (or any government organization) doing anything to establish or support religion. No. In fact the complaint alleges the exact opposite.

Is the free exercise of religion being prevented by the government. It would seem so.

Is free speech being prohibited. It would seem so.

It seems to me like the ruling is correct. I guess if you are really bothered by cheerleaders using bible quotes at a HS football game move to an area of the country that is less religious.

As you interpret it perhaps.

Does that give me the right to run onto the field with a huge sign pointing out how stupid religion is?

I'd be arrested. Is my free speech being repressed?

Any time a public institution allows this kind of religious behaviour to happen in a very public setting it walks a fine line between allowing freedom of expression and implicitely supporting a religious message.

Not clear cut at all.

 

[nehalem256]

As you interpret it perhaps.

Does that give me the right to run onto the field with a huge sign pointing out how stupid religion is?

I'd be arrested. Is my free speech being repressed?

You would be arrested for running on the field and disrupting the game. Not for saying religion is stupid. So free speech is being repressed.

Any time a public institution allows this kind of religious behaviour to happen in a very public setting it walks a fine line between allowing freedom of expression and implicitely supporting a religious message.

Not clear cut at all.

I agree that there is a fine line.

But explicitly prohibiting religious expression would seem to be worse that an implicit possibility of support.

Couldn't prohibiting any religious expression be considered an implicit endorsement of Atheism?

 

[shortylickens]

I guess I got nothing new to say. As others have pointed out, I wonder what would happen if somebody tried passing off muslim or jew quotes.

 

[Incorruptible]

I guess I got nothing new to say. As others have pointed out, I wonder what would happen if somebody tried passing off muslim or jew quotes.

How many Jewish and Muslim cheerleaders are there?

I beleive most of the cheerleaders are Christian along with the players and fans

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

You would be arrested for running on the field and disrupting the game. Not for saying religion is stupid. So free speech is being repressed.



I agree that there is a fine line.

But explicitly prohibiting religious expression would seem to be worse that an implicit possibility of support.

Couldn't prohibiting any religious expression be considered an implicit endorsement of Atheism?

1. Doesnt that imply that there are certain rules governing football games on public facilities and we must all follow them, even if free speech is not fully available?

2. Atheism is not a religion, so no.

 

[Gunslinger08]

I don't have a problem with this. As long as the school or coach isn't mandating religious quotes on the signs, who cares? Freedom of religion just means that you can't be forced to follow one religion. Viewing some quotes on a banner created by 16 year olds in glitter isn't forcing you to be one religion or another. The cheerleaders have just as much right to express their beliefs.

 

[Todd33]

Since when do students on school property have free speech? They are barred from wearing all kind of stuff with messages on them already. I recall students being sent home to change their clothes when in school, they don't have all the right of citizens. I smell bias from the bench (Christian judge in Texas). Bad decision. Screw their free speech unless they are off school property on their own time.

Perry said Texans should encourage the cheerleaders.
"Anyone who is expressing their faith should be celebrated, from my perspective, in this day and age of instant gratification, this me-first culture that we see all too often," Perry said Wednesday. "We're a nation built on the concept of free expression of ideas. We're also a culture built on the concept that the original law is God's law, outlined in the Ten Commandments."

What a dishonest asshat. If a Muslim wanted something from the Koran on the banner she would be run out of town by these same free speech Christians. What a load of shit.

I'm a member of Freedom From Religion Foundation, I recommend anyone who is interested to check them out. They do good work for those who don't want to live in a theocracy or be oppressed by the Christian majority.

 

[Incorruptible]

Since when do students on school property have free speech? They are barred from wearing all kind of stuff with messages on them already. I recall students being sent home to change their clothes when in school, they don't have all the right of citizens. I smell bias from the bench (Christian judge in Texas). Bad decision. Screw their free speech unless they are off school property on their own time.

I'm a member of Freedom From Religion Foundation, I recommend anyone who is interested to check them out. They do good work for those who don't want to live in a theocracy or be oppressed by the Christian majority.

Except many students who aren't Christian still are allowed to bring their religion into school. There is nothing wrong with what these girls are doing.

 

[shortylickens]

How many Jewish and Muslim cheerleaders are there?

I beleive most of the cheerleaders are Christian along with the players and fans

Doesnt matter. It could be christian cheerleader with Islams words on their posters.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Since when do students on school property have free speech? They are barred from wearing all kind of stuff with messages on them already. I recall students being sent home to change their clothes when in school, they don't have all the right of citizens. I smell bias from the bench (Christian judge in Texas). Bad decision. Screw their free speech unless they are off school property on their own time.




What a dishonest asshat. If a Muslim wanted something from the Koran on the banner she would be run out of town by these same free speech Christians. What a load of shit.

I'm a member of Freedom From Religion Foundation, I recommend anyone who is interested to check them out. They do good work for those who don't want to live in a theocracy or be oppressed by the Christian majority.

How exactly are you being oppressed by someone else expressing their beliefs? This is like getting pissed for someone saying Merry Christmas. They aren't strapping you into a chair and making you watch the Left Behind series in a Kirk Cameron marathon.

 

[Todd33]

How exactly are you being oppressed by someone else expressing their beliefs? This is like getting pissed for someone saying Merry Christmas. They aren't strapping you into a chair and making you watch the Left Behind series in a Kirk Cameron marathon.

That's the point of view from the majority. Once you are not part of the cult all the crap forced in your face is both insulting and infuriating. I'm not talking about Merry Christmas either, stop with that nonsense.

It's even worse when you have kids and they have to endure it. "One nation under God..".

See my sig.

 

[Gunslinger08]

That's the point of view from the majority. Once you are not part of the cult all the crap forced in your face is both insulting and infuriating. I'm not talking about Merry Christmas either, stop with that nonsense.

It's insulting and infuriating for someone to express a belief that you do not also hold? You sound like a reasonable human being.

 

[Todd33]

It's insulting and infuriating for someone to express a belief that you do not also hold? You sound like a reasonable human being.

I'm very reasonable. I just don't want your religion or anyone else's thrust into my tax paid schools, court rooms, parks, etc. Keep that shit in your house or church.

 

[Gunslinger08]

I'm very reasonable. I just don't want your religion or anyone else's thrust into my tax paid schools, court rooms, parks, etc. Keep that shit in your house or church.

Where have I even stated which religion I follow? I'm pro-logic, which includes allowing people to express their beliefs in ways that clearly comply with the US Constitution.

Just because your tax bucks paid for a facility doesn't mean that everyone in that facility has to completely abandon their beliefs and the expression of them when crossing the threshold from private to public property.