Texas Judge Rules For Cheerleaders In Bible Banner Suit

[Incorruptible]

A judge says an East Texas school district policy barring cheerleaders from quoting biblical scripture on banners at high school football games appears to violate their free speech rights. KFDM television in Beaumont reports that District Judge Steve Thomas issued an injunction allowing the Kountze High School cheerleaders to continue displaying such banners pending the outcome of a lawsuit about the matter. He previously granted a temporary restraining order allowing the practice to continue.
The school district ordered the cheerleaders to stop quoting Bible verses after receiving a complaint from the Freedom From Religion Foundation. The group says it received a complaint from an atheist attending a game who felt the school was promoting Christianity.
Republican Gov. Rick Perry and Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott have backed the cheerleaders.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/1...se-banner-suit/?test=latestnews#ixzz29gGr2mgr
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/1...ader-bible-verse-banner-suit/?test=latestnews

A Texas judge has issued an injunction to allow high school cheerleaders to put biblical quotes on their banners at football games

The judge ruled that their free speech rights were being violated and the cheerleaders claim they have free speech and should be allowed to keep the banners

I think the cheerleaders should have the right to use the quotes

Do you believe that the cheerleaders should be able to have the quotes or should they be barred from doing it?

 

[WelshBloke]

...Do you believe that the cheerleaders should be able to have the quotes or should they be barred from doing it?

Only if its those insane old quotes whereby wimmins have to kill doves and make sammiches.

 

[MovingTarget]

I tend to agree with the decision personally, but not professionally. It is a very fine line that they have to walk - one that is ripe for abuse. The school and its employees cannot be perceived to establish a school "faith" or religion. No student can be coerced towards/against any religion.

I suspect that this will be challenged again in the future.

 

[Perknose]

Only if its those insane old quotes whereby wimmins have to kill doves and make sammiches.

Especially doves! They're just pigeons who can sing.

If women weren't so busy earning money in the workplace in order to eat, and instead were roaming the countryside carrying out this biblical injunction, dove poop would be a non-issue in 'Murica.

 

[Incorruptible]

I tend to agree with the decision personally, but not professionally. It is a very fine line that they have to walk - one that is ripe for abuse. The school and its employees cannot be perceived to establish a school "faith" or religion. No student can be coerced towards/against any religion.

I suspect that this will be challenged again in the future.

For sure it will be challenged, I also agree that it is a fine line because they have Freedom of speech but also have to keep the separation of Church and state.

The school itself isn't doing this, its the students so I tend to agree that they have the right. The teachers/staff shouldn't be able to

 

[woolfe9999]

Wasn't there a fairly recent case involving a high school student giving a prayer at a graduation ceremony? I can't recall the exact details or the ruling, but I think that particular case is going to be a relevant precedent. Both involve religious communications offered by students at school events.

 

[mchammer187]

As long as they are free to recite from the Koran, Torrah and wear headscarves when the cheer than I would have no problem either.

That is of course as long as it is not mandated by the cheerleading or football coaching staff.

 

[BoberFett]

If it were a verse from the Koran, the roles would be reversed. The right wing fringe would be trying to keep those Mooslims from tarnishing their sacred football games, while the left would be defending those poor minorities from the evil Christian wingnuts.

Why can't everybody just leave each other the fuck alone? Americans are such dimwits about some things.

 

[Incorruptible]

Wasn't there a fairly recent case involving a high school student giving a prayer at a graduation ceremony? I can't recall the exact details or the ruling, but I think that particular case is going to be a relevant precedent. Both involve religious communications offered by students at school events.

I believe there was, but the thing is that it wasn't a teacher/staff giving the prayer but rather the students doing it

 

[woolfe9999]

I believe there was, but the thing is that it wasn't a teacher/staff giving the prayer but rather the students doing it

That was the case with the graduation speech as well IIRC, which is why I'm saying that ruling would seem to be relevant here. I'm not yet offering an opinion about this particular case. I'm just saying there is a rather obvious similarity between the two.

Actually, I can't recall how far that case made it in the court system. There may not even be a published opinion.

 

[-Slacker-]

If it's the students' initiative, then it's a free speech issue, and they should have the right to flash whatever signs they want, within decency.

If, on the other hand, fox news is lying about this ... (not that they ever would, I'm sure.)

 

[DrPizza]

I'm very surprised by this decision. Well known cases that would suggest otherwise: prayers during graduation, even when the idea of doing a prayer came from the student body, rather than the administration (not allowed.) And, there was a case in Texas where a female student was raped, the rapist, thanks to double-jeopardy and a DA who tried him for something far lesser, got of scott-free, and the female was supposed to cheer "sink that ball" when her rapist was at the free-throw line. She refused, was kicked off the cheerleading squad, sued claiming free-speech issue, and it was ruled that it wasn't free speech; it was an obligation that she had to meet if she was on the squad.


This opens the door for a huge can of worms - what if a non-religious student doesn't make it onto the squad - a claim of religious discrimination? What if a non-religious student is forced to hold up religious signs? A savvy parent in that district must be thinking "ka-ching!" over this decision.

 

[woolfe9999]

This is the thread about the case I was talking about:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2169314&highlight=graduation

 

[OutHouse]

For sure it will be challenged, I also agree that it is a fine line because they have Freedom of speech but also have to keep the separation of Church and state.

The school itself isn't doing this, its the students so I tend to agree that they have the right. The teachers/staff shouldn't be able to

putting bible quotes on a banner is ok, but promoting your church is not.

 

[GoPackGo]

I'm very surprised by this decision. Well known cases that would suggest otherwise: prayers during graduation, even when the idea of doing a prayer came from the student body, rather than the administration (not allowed.) And, there was a case in Texas where a female student was raped, the rapist, thanks to double-jeopardy and a DA who tried him for something far lesser, got of scott-free, and the female was supposed to cheer "sink that ball" when her rapist was at the free-throw line. She refused, was kicked off the cheerleading squad, sued claiming free-speech issue, and it was ruled that it wasn't free speech; it was an obligation that she had to meet if she was on the squad.


This opens the door for a huge can of worms - what if a non-religious student doesn't make it onto the squad - a claim of religious discrimination? What if a non-religious student is forced to hold up religious signs? A savvy parent in that district must be thinking "ka-ching!" over this decision.

Couldn't she have shot him under Texas' "He needs killing" law...?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm very surprised by this decision. Well known cases that would suggest otherwise: prayers during graduation, even when the idea of doing a prayer came from the student body, rather than the administration (not allowed.) And, there was a case in Texas where a female student was raped, the rapist, thanks to double-jeopardy and a DA who tried him for something far lesser, got of scott-free, and the female was supposed to cheer "sink that ball" when her rapist was at the free-throw line. She refused, was kicked off the cheerleading squad, sued claiming free-speech issue, and it was ruled that it wasn't free speech; it was an obligation that she had to meet if she was on the squad.


This opens the door for a huge can of worms - what if a non-religious student doesn't make it onto the squad - a claim of religious discrimination? What if a non-religious student is forced to hold up religious signs? A savvy parent in that district must be thinking "ka-ching!" over this decision.

What if a coach who is an atheist doesn't allow a religious girl on? What if religious people are sourced to carry anti religious signs?

Is this a decision of the person wearing it? If the standard is such that banning those peoples freedom of expression gives way to keeping someones eyes from seeing things, then we've gone too far.

 

[woolfe9999]

I'm very surprised by this decision. Well known cases that would suggest otherwise: prayers during graduation, even when the idea of doing a prayer came from the student body, rather than the administration (not allowed.) And, there was a case in Texas where a female student was raped, the rapist, thanks to double-jeopardy and a DA who tried him for something far lesser, got of scott-free, and the female was supposed to cheer "sink that ball" when her rapist was at the free-throw line. She refused, was kicked off the cheerleading squad, sued claiming free-speech issue, and it was ruled that it wasn't free speech; it was an obligation that she had to meet if she was on the squad.


This opens the door for a huge can of worms - what if a non-religious student doesn't make it onto the squad - a claim of religious discrimination? What if a non-religious student is forced to hold up religious signs? A savvy parent in that district must be thinking "ka-ching!" over this decision.

If the non-religious cheerleader is "forced" to hold up a religious sign, the only person who could be forcing that would be a school employee who is overseeing the cheerleading squad, right? That then would be a clear Establishment Clause violation. This particular case, assuming it is done entirely at the initiative of the individual cheerleaders, isn't so clear.

 

[DrPizza]

I think Hayabusa missed my point, which woolfe seems to get - in the role of cheerleaders, they don't *have* free speech - they're required to do what the school through adminstrators to coaches, etc., want them to do (provided that's within the law.)

 

[Engineer]

If it were a verse from the Koran, the roles would be reversed. The right wing fringe would be trying to keep those Mooslims from tarnishing their sacred football games, while the left would be defending those poor minorities from the evil Christian wingnuts.

Why can't everybody just leave each other the fuck alone? Americans are such dimwits about some things.

Agree 100%

 

[chucky2]

Maybe a deal could have been struck that religous quotes were OK only if they were applied while the cheerleaders were wearing sports bras and swimsuit bottoms?

Sounds pretty fair to me....

 

[Schmide]

You guys realize this is just an injunction. When dealing with granted rights the courts usually allow the practice to continue until a ruling is made especially in cases where the perceived damages would be minor.

 

[Aikouka]

For sure it will be challenged, I also agree that it is a fine line because they have Freedom of speech but also have to keep the separation of Church and state.

The school itself isn't doing this, its the students so I tend to agree that they have the right. The teachers/staff shouldn't be able to

Hmm I've been looking at this in different ways, but I think I've settled on the fact that it shouldn't be allowed. My first thought was that the football game is a school-sponsored event, which means public funds go toward supporting it. The idea of prayer groups at schools popped into my head, and that made me kind of swing more toward it being okay, but then I realized... I don't think most schools sponsor clubs (of any type) anyway, which means prayer groups are fine as long as they meet all club guidelines.

So, I've gone back to my original thought... the school is supporting these sporting events, and Biblical verses should probably not be pushed by a representative of the school (player, cheerleader, coach, etc.).

EDIT:

Although, to be honest... I don't think it's a big deal. However, I am rather curious to see what happens if someone does quote the Koran or any other religious book (as someone else mentioned). Would Perry, a politician that mentioned pushed his religious ideals during the Republican debates, and the others still back it? I doubt it.

 

[kage69]

I think the ruling is appropriate for private schools, but wrong for state funded public schools.

Texas. How fitting.

 

[Fern]

WTH would anyone put a Bible verse on a football banner?

I guess there might be some Bible verse that could be relevant. Say, for example, the other team was known as the "Satanic Forces". Probably some Old Testament verse like (Ye shall smite the Satanic Forces with my power...". Nah, prolly not.

Fern

 

[Incorruptible]

WTH would anyone put a Bible verse on a football banner?

I guess there might be some Bible verse that could be relevant. Say, for example, the other team was known as the "Satanic Forces". Probably some Old Testament verse like (Ye shall smite the Satanic Forces with my power...". Nah, prolly not.

Fern

Don't really know why they would put the bible verse but apparently there are a lot of Christians who live in that area, there was lots of support for the cheerleaders from the fans after it happened.

The cheerleaders themselves are Christians so they want to use the quotes