Texas GOP Executive Body to vote on secession

[zinfamous]

Let's not be stupid by pretending its 1860. The world has changed.

Shouldn't someone be saying this to Texas?

 

[MrPickins]

Well, I've got my rights to comment, since I was born there with some three or four earlier generations going back to 1850 in a little place called Pana Maria near San Antonio. We had the Bushes beat by almost a century.

Wow. I'd be willing to bet I'm the only other person on this forum that knows where that is without looking it up.

We've got land and family in and around Karnes County, mostly in Choate (our land is along the S.A. river).

If they do, it won't be very long before Tex-Ass reverts to total Mexican control...and is just another Mexican state. (as compared to one of the United States that has a large Mexican population.

I think you underestimate the sense of Texas pride people have here. Winning our independence from Mexico is still a celebrated accomplishment, and will likely never be reversed, even if we did seceed.

 

[trenchfoot]

Shouldn't someone be saying this to Texas?

Good one. 😀

In my mind, part of this discussion revolves around the disconnect between what the majority of Texans feel about seceding as evidenced by those Texans posting in this thread, and what their legislators are apparently doing in earnest to make it happen. This, with the logical conclusion that those legislators who are pressing for seceding represent the clear majority viewpoint and convictions of those that voted them into office.

So then, if most Texans feel that seceding is a no-go-never-gonna-happen, why are their legislators so passionate about doing just that?

Apparently, these politicians feel that secession is such a popular goal that they'd be willing to risk their seats in pursuit of such, or they're so out of touch with their constituency that they'd even dream of seceding to give their voting public exactly what they want.

Either way, it's rather odd and practically surreal that this issue of secession is being touted as THE solution to a problem that only those politicians in Texas can see.

This nonsensical disjoint persuades me to believe that this ploy on their part is nothing more than a stab at grandstanding their way into keeping their jobs, but it also brings to bear the notion that seceding may very well be a popular if not realistic way for Texas to solve the problems they have with co-existing with the rest of the nation.

 

[MrPickins]

Good one. 😀

In my mind, part of this discussion revolves around the disconnect between what the majority of Texans feel about seceding as evidenced by those Texans posting in this thread, and what their legislators are apparently doing in earnest to make it happen. This, with the logical conclusion that those legislators who are pressing for seceding represent the clear majority viewpoint and convictions of those that voted them into office.

..snip..

It's all a bunch of talk from the GOP in an attempt to appeal to the more extreme conservatives in their voting base.

Everyone knows it's not going to happen, even the people pushing for it (or pretending to).

 

[Greenman]

It looks like the only point that hasn't been made is the obvious one, perhaps Texas is better off on their own. Right off the bat their piece of a staggering national debt goes away. Then they get to control their borders as they see fit. Those two reasons are enough to consider the idea.

 

[IronWing]

I think you underestimate the sense of Texas pride people have here.

I don't think anyone in the history of the world ever underestimated Texan pride.

 

[MrPickins]

I don't think anyone in the history of the world ever underestimated Texan pride.

Except they do every time they say something along the lines of "give them back to Mexico" (which I hear a lot).

 

[fskimospy]

It looks like the only point that hasn't been made is the obvious one, perhaps Texas is better off on their own. Right off the bat their piece of a staggering national debt goes away. Then they get to control their borders as they see fit. Those two reasons are enough to consider the idea.

Why on earth would Texas rid itself of its portion of federal debt of it seceded? Good luck with that one, haha.

How comparably well off Texas would be on its own would depend almost entirely on its relationship with the remaining United States. If its relations were good, then almost any net federal contributor would be better off as you could just free load on military, etc. If their relationship was bad, look out. They would be in deep shit.

 

[Moonbeam]

Sometime -- maybe back in the '80s or '90s -- someone published a long newspaper article on "redefining states."

There was a reasoning behind it that administration of the various state jurisdictions would be much more efficient. But of course, the problem arises with long historical or cultural tradition, and a total upending of the status-quo.

Of course, the model they proposed also slivered Texas into two or more pieces. the Rednecks would be totally outraged.

Lately, there's been a discussion in CA to split the state into pieces. Some folks in the north think they're getting the shit end of the stick as it stands. They want to create a new state called "Jefferson" or something like that.

And that still ain't gonna happen, or so I predict.

It has to happen because every single person in Southern California wants to live the lifestyle of an otter in the middle of a desert, a form of demonic possession, and one that requires complete eradication. You aren't satisfied drinking the Colorado, you suck up our water too, and the drought has caused you to be an imminent threat to our beautiful life up here where every liberal is real and not a phony movie star. You almost already did us in with your fucking Terminator. So it hasta la vista, Baby to you. You can form a new state and call it Southern Psycho Disney Land. A plague on all your Adobe Haciendas; up here we build with Redwood.

 

[Moonbeam]

Why on earth would Texas rid itself of its portion of federal debt of it seceded? Good luck with that one, haha.

How comparably well off Texas would be on its own would depend almost entirely on its relationship with the remaining United States. If its relations were good, then almost any net federal contributor would be better off as you could just free load on military, etc. If their relationship was bad, look out. They would be in deep shit.

I know where I'd tell Trump to build his fucking wall.

 

[Greenman]

Why on earth would Texas rid itself of its portion of federal debt of it seceded? Good luck with that one, haha.

How comparably well off Texas would be on its own would depend almost entirely on its relationship with the remaining United States. If its relations were good, then almost any net federal contributor would be better off as you could just free load on military, etc. If their relationship was bad, look out. They would be in deep shit.

Why would they pay it? They'd be a sovereign nation and could simply say no. Would the rest of the US go to war over it? Seems unlikely.

 

[waggy]

Stupid of Texas to even vote on. they won't and can't.

They would lose far more then they would gain.

 

[Greenman]

Stupid of Texas to even vote on. they won't and can't.

They would lose far more then they would gain.

What exactly would they lose?

 

[IronWing]

What exactly would they lose?

The welfare state that props them up.

 

[Moonbeam]

I'm not sure how far I buy into that. If true, I wonder if it's the result of nature or nurture, if it's innate or if culture largely determines its expression.

Nobody knows but me. Scientists speculate, propose theories, and have to test them. They have to publish and wait for conformation by others that do the experiments. Science does not admit to the fact that knowledge of the world can be had based on a completely unrecognized form of science. In deference to these facts, what I can do, then, is express the facts as opinions.

The brain is very plastic. After a month of working daily say with adding numbers, ones capacity and speed to add them begins to increase. We know that alcohol makes people more conservative thinking and that fear does the same thing. Imagine the stress of growing up under constant threat and intimidation, think of the ghetto mind set, and then remember the feelings you had to transcend going from a teenager to an adult. Now imagine growing up in a culture of near total emotional ignorance. Think back at the causes for how your liberal mind was either able to recover or survive? You won't need science to tell you the answer. There may be some who are born without the ability to empathize, but they aren't really human.

We just had some research that says that atheists are less selfish than religious people. There is a big difference between wanting to be good from the inside, and being told to be good or you're going to hell. For the latter group, hell is where all the life is. They want to go there, unconsciously, of course.

 

[Meghan54]

The welfare state that props them up.

Not to mention the military that protects them.

 

[waggy]

well lets see.

i would suspect if they succedd (and say the US lets them). then they aren't part of the US and a foreign nation. so they would need a currency, set up foreign trade, medical etc.

then all roads leading in and out need gates and such.

tons of silly other shit.

over all it's worse for them then it is for them.

but it's uselss because IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. I'm no fan of how the US government been running lately but this is nothing more then a waste of tax money

 

[DrDoug]

What exactly would they lose?

I'm no expert but think of all of the federal facilities (25 Bureau of Prison facilities, NASA, military bases, etc.) that would pull out, leaving many locals looking for jobs and devastating local economies that depend on those workers spending their paychecks at their businesses. Then add on them starting with a massive debt as they would have to take on their portion of our debt and you end up with a situation where what is now booming turns into an economic disaster.

I'm sure that there are a few more reasons it's a bad idea but those ones stand out to me.

 

[Sonikku]

If Texas leaves they're going to have to make do with less or pay more in taxes. No more getting more in federal money than paying out in federal taxes.

 

[Darwin333]

I'm no expert but think of all of the federal facilities (25 Bureau of Prison facilities, NASA, military bases, etc.) that would pull out, leaving many locals looking for jobs and devastating local economies that depend on those workers spending their paychecks at their businesses. Then add on them starting with a massive debt as they would have to take on their portion of our debt and you end up with a situation where what is now booming turns into an economic disaster.

I'm sure that there are a few more reasons it's a bad idea but those ones stand out to me.

They wouldn't have to take on their portion of the US debt because they would be a new sovereign nation with a new currency.

As far as economics, yall yanks forget how much of your energy runs through a very few states that yall keep calling "welfare" states. If Louisiana was to join Texas our economy would be flush with money simply because you wouldn't have any other choice in the world to buy your energy for. Hell it would take at least a decade (assuming no long ongoing environmental lawsuits) to even think about replacing just the refining capacity. Even if yall can magically replace the refining capacity in a decade the rest of the infrastructure would be a monumental excursion that would probably take 5 years just to get a design approved. Think the Keystone pipeline was hard then imagine trying to replace the energy ports (Louisiana has the only in the country that can offload Supermax crude carriers), most of your domestic energy supply, a metric fuckton of your refining capacity and the biggest distribution network in the country. Oh and lets not forget (assuming Louisiana goes with them which their population and .gov is crazy enough to go with if Texas pulls it off) two of the countries largest ports.

There are a bunch of states, assuming one or two and not 10, that could bounce and we'd probably be "meh" about it but not so much with the states that everyone hopes will leave (well, maybe except Florida).


Tl;Dr Texas ain't going nowhere and you all should be glad because we really need those southern fuckers.

 

[leper84]

The welfare state that props them up.

See below

Not to mention the military that protects them.

I don't think you realize just how many Texans we have fighting in the Armed Forces. The military that protects us is us.

If Texas leaves they're going to have to make do with less or pay more in taxes. No more getting more in federal money than paying out in federal taxes.

Funny you mention that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state

Texas received $147,380,000,000 in Federal funds for 2014, but paid in $265,336,000,000. As far as the Feds see Texas paid a net $117,956,000,000. That is the second largest amount paid in next to California and 11th place per capita.

So maybe don't say we rely on 'welfare' and 'getting more in Fed money than paying out' when we pay out $118 Billion a year more than we get.

 

[Brian Stirling]

They wouldn't have to take on their portion of the US debt because they would be a new sovereign nation with a new currency.

As far as economics, yall yanks forget how much of your energy runs through a very few states that yall keep calling "welfare" states. If Louisiana was to join Texas our economy would be flush with money simply because you wouldn't have any other choice in the world to buy your energy for. Hell it would take at least a decade (assuming no long ongoing environmental lawsuits) to even think about replacing just the refining capacity. Even if yall can magically replace the refining capacity in a decade the rest of the infrastructure would be a monumental excursion that would probably take 5 years just to get a design approved. Think the Keystone pipeline was hard then imagine trying to replace the energy ports (Louisiana has the only in the country that can offload Supermax crude carriers), most of your domestic energy supply, a metric fuckton of your refining capacity and the biggest distribution network in the country. Oh and lets not forget (assuming Louisiana goes with them which their population and .gov is crazy enough to go with if Texas pulls it off) two of the countries largest ports.

There are a bunch of states, assuming one or two and not 10, that could bounce and we'd probably be "meh" about it but not so much with the states that everyone hopes will leave (well, maybe except Florida).


Tl;Dr Texas ain't going nowhere and you all should be glad because we really need those southern fuckers.

Texas does have a huge presence in energy, but it's most significant control is in refining. If Texas were to leave then the following happens:

1. Refining capacity is built elsewhere in the remaining USA.

2. Alternative energy gets the green light lowering the need for petroleum.

3. Texas economy drops off the table!

And how did you jump to including Louisiana in the new nation of Texas -- why stop there? With Texas out of the way Louisiana would become a boom town -- as part of the new nation of Texas, not so much!


Brian

 

[fskimospy]

Why would they pay it? They'd be a sovereign nation and could simply say no. Would the rest of the US go to war over it? Seems unlikely.

That implies Texas could somehow unilaterally secede with no other consequences.

That seems extraordinarily unlikely.

 

[zinfamous]

Why on earth would Texas rid itself of its portion of federal debt of it seceded? Good luck with that one, haha.

How comparably well off Texas would be on its own would depend almost entirely on its relationship with the remaining United States. If its relations were good, then almost any net federal contributor would be better off as you could just free load on military, etc. If their relationship was bad, look out. They would be in deep shit.

President Trump would need to build a big 'ol wall to keep all the Texans out.