Texas Debate Reactions Thread

[Bitek]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITI...exas.debate/index.html


Just wrapping up. Didn't get to catch some of the beginning, but the last half was good. Generally I think they both did well. Two criticisms strike me tho. (easier than mentioning all the +'s right now.)

Obama: Dodged the Surge support question while Hillary answered it. This is still a very important part of the overall Iraq question, and Obama really needs to flesh this out. If he doesn't he will get torn up by McCain.

Hillary: Lots of technical knowledge (some bullshitty tho,) but again showed her tendency to bicker and be negative. Her attitude contrasts sharply with Obama's attitude. Preview of her presidency of lots of partisanship and fighting.


I think Obama answered the "plagiarism" question very well, but Hillary continued with it, and so far seems to be winning the sound bite war over the issue. In some ways Hillary is lucky Obama doesn't hit back harder, as he could have brought up instances where she has been ripping him off ("Yes we will, Yes we will") but seems to let some fights drop in the interest of civility. Makes her look shrill, but still leaves some mud on his coat.

 

[Excelsior]

I think he burned her on the plagiarism "issue". Its as if she thinks folks don't know she has people telling her what to say every now and then (or quite often). Speech writers exist for a reason.

 

[Phokus]

Hillary got booed by the crowed when she had that 'xeroxed changed' line about the plagiarism charge. She f***ed that up big time.

 

[Farang]

Dodged surge support? He said he is better positioned to go after McCain because a tactical success does not make up for a strategic mistake that he opposed. What else do you want here?

On plagiarism she drew boos. It may play better in newspapers but in the debate hall it flopped.

 

[MBrown]

No doubt that Obama won that.

 

[CellarDoor]

Obama won his first debate against hillary and it was a clear win. In fact, I got the feeling that she realized this and is leaving herself an out to leave this race graciously. She wants a future in the Democratic party.

Edit: She came to the debate with one line to try to slip up Obama and she ended up getting booed. He scored on numerous points throughout the debate, particularly on electability and on Iraq.

 

[Farang]

Also, Obama knocked her out when he got the laugh at people in his campaign being 'delusional.' He went on for a few minutes like a stump speech and had the audience in the palm of his hand while Clinton sat there smirking.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Obama "I have gotten the support of every major newspaper in the state of Texas"

Crowd cheers

Clintons smiling face says "I hate that son of a bitch"

 

[Mail5398]

That last bit by Clinton almost sounded like a concession speech.

 

[CellarDoor]

Originally posted by: Mail5398
That last bit by Clinton almost sounded like a concession speech.

Didn't it? I really think she's realizing she can't catch up in delegates and it would be terrible for her future to try to win the nomination with political tricks (MI, FL, superdelegates, trying to pick off Obama's pledged delegates). I think she realized she can have a great future in the Senate.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Obama has class, he has style, he's a consummate diplomat, and it showed in the debate tonight. Hillary wishes she could learn half of what comes naturally to Obama. I can't wait for him to be the face of this nation.

 

[nageov3t]

(candidate I support) did amazing! s/he was awesome and really pwned him/her.

 

[sportage]

Maybe she's just sick knowing we're on our way to a McCain presidency.
Makes me sick too.
Democrats have a way of shooting ourselves in the foot.
Remember that nambie pambie convention in 2004,
while the republicans shot back with Zell Miller.
Oprah should stick to her tv show. And Ted to getting drunk.

 

[Rainsford]

I said "equal", because it's the best answer...but not quite right. I think Clinton did a terrible job, she seemed whiny and petty, and while she seemed to have technical knowledge, I think she lost a lot of points on attitude and general tone of her responses. It's not that she had terrible answers, it's that she just did a terrible job expressing them. So Obama clearly came out ahead, but I'm not sure he won...I think Clinton did a really good job of beating herself.

My reluctance to declare Obama the winner is that he seems like such a nice guy debating that I'm a little worried he's going to just get killed by the Republicans in the general election. Beating Clinton in a debate is like dunking on the short, fat kid playing basketball...it's fun and all, but it doesn't mean you're Shaq. The Republicans (at least those who don't like Obama), are already gearing up to make this election just as nasty as the last one, and it's hard to say how Obama's debate skills are going to hold up.

I hate this answer, in a way, because Obama's performance has convinced me he'd make a far better President...but he still needs to win the election. I hate horse race politics as much as anyone, but that's the reality of this particular game we play. Then again, I could be wrong. Negative campaigning worked against Kerry because he was the kind of guy people love to hate. Obama, on the other hand, is a nice guy who comes across as a nice guy...going after him might backfire on the Republicans just as it is on Clinton. Time will tell, and in any case, Obama is clearly the candidate the Democrats need.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: sportage
Maybe she's just sick knowing we're on our way to a McCain presidency.
Makes me sick too.
Democrats have a way of shooting ourselves in the foot.
Remember that nambie pambie convention in 2004,
while the republicans shot back with Zell Miller.
Oprah should stick to her tv show. And Ted to getting drunk.

In a fair world, Zell Miller would have reduced Bush's support to 6 guys in Mississippi. The fact that assclown behavior like that WINS support is one of the worst things about American politics. But here's the thing...I'm not sure it will work against Obama as well as it did against Kerry. Republicans HATED Kerry with something approaching irrational rage, Zell was a pretty big dipshit...but when you don't like the Democratic candidate either, it's easy to get caught up in the insane ramblings of someone like that. Obama, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have drawn anywhere near that level of hatred (except among the idiots who think he's an Islamic terrorist sleeper or whatever), without the rage to fuel the whole thing, Zell Miller-ish behavior will just make the Republicans look really, really stupid.

The thing about the parties is that the more they change, the more they stay the same. I have no doubt the Democrats will try to run a feel good campaign again, while the Republicans will try to be even bigger assholes than the last time. But the thing is, with a guy like Obama, the positive, feel good message may appeal to people rather than appearing all namby pamby, and the nasty, dirty campaigning may be a huge turn-off rather than a rallying cry to voters who don't like the other guy. Obama goes around getting people excited about feeling positive and hopeful and Zell Miller goes around challenging people to duels and the Republican strategy (and I'm SURE that's going to be the strategy) might not work so well this time around.

 

[palehorse]

:thumbsup: to Obama!

 

[Paddington]

I rather enjoyed Hillary tearing Obama a new asshole. The man has no brain, no concrete agenda, just a personality cult. And now we learn he's not even a great orator, just a plagiarist. What's the Democratic party to do, when even the teeny boppers get bored and stop swooning at his campaign events?

 

[Bitek]

Hmmm interesting replies. I would say equal, but anything less than a huge coup for Hillary will turn up short in the election.

Watching the whole debate, I would give Obama the edge. They both had good +'s, but her negs were really dramatic at points. I agree she did look petty and bitchy about the plagiarism question. I am not so sure how clear this will be in the media tomorrow. Hillary always seems good about getting the inane soundbites out, while Obama sometimes takes a while to build his point. The latter is not what always get replayed (and thus becomes The Truth.) Time will tell tho. Incidentally, Obama's camp is putting out examples of Hillary's final lines in the debate (how the country will be fine) as a near verbatim ripoff of Edwards. So perhaps this issue will not clarify, just get muddled and make Hill look like the hypocrite she is.


I still think Obama's answer on the Surge was his weakspot in the debate. He was all over the place taking about infrastructure, veterans benefits, healthcare and other tangentially related items, but neverreally addressed the question in a meaningful way. I don't buy the argument that because he opposed the war in the beginning that will automatically be better positioned than McCain. He seems to have good judgment, but that argument is backward looking and doesn't allude to what we're going to do going forward. As Obama said himself if "we're as reckless getting out as we were getting in" we can really muck things up for a long time. I don't think the Iraq issue will be so easily swept away, shitty economy or no.

McCain is going to base his candidacy on this issue and Obama needs to be better prepared to counter it than he is now.

 

[Bitek]

Oh, lastly... about one of the Hillary hissing moments. She brought up the "Obama supporter who couldn't list one accomplishment." The guy she was referring to was the former mayor of Austin, and I think now congressman. Whoops, talking about pissing on the home crowd. lol I think Obama's response to the criticism was good: listed lots of accomplishments, lots of issue specifics and that he didn't think the 20M who had voted for him were all "delusional".

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Obama "I have gotten the support of every major newspaper in the state of Texas"

Crowd cheers

Clintons smiling face says "I hate that son of a bitch"

Her smile did seem frozen at that point. I always try to put myself into the shoes of both sides, and I don't what else she could have done but sit there grinning like an idiot. Obama scored big in my eyes on both the plaigarism thing and the delusional thing.

She really should have just let the plaigarism thing go. I'm sure some advisor told her to push it and give that ridiculous line, but she should have been smart enough to see it wasn't going to work.

I voted "equal" by the way. That's because even though i've picked Obama, I came away from the whole thing saying "Clinton wouldn't make a bad president at all." They both looked good in my opinion. If Obama somehow lost in delegates, I could get behind Clinton 100 percent. If Obama lost because of superdelegates, that a whole other can of worms.

 

[SSSnail]

Obotsma is strong here... but given the demographics, I'm not a least bit surprised.

 

[Bitek]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Obotsma is strong here... but given the demographics, I'm not a least bit surprised.

What were you expecting to see, that McCain won the debate? o_0

 

[Pabster]

Obama smoked her. She needed to do VERY well and she failed, miserably.

Clearly she was trying to draw him out on a few points. Glad he didn't take the bait.

 

[bamacre]

The media needs to start asking when she's going to drop out. This is getting ridiculous.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Hafen


Obama: Dodged the Surge support question while Hillary answered it. This is still a very important part of the overall Iraq question, and Obama really needs to flesh this out. If he doesn't he will get torn up by McCain.

here i thought she dodged the surge question