Test drive day

[Kaido]

My son is 12 and he's 5'4" tall. I doubt he would be comfortable in the back seat of a BRZ. He hasn't been in a child seat in probably 6 years. I've owned nothing but 4 door sedans since he was 2.

Getting kids, especially infants, in and out of a 2 door gets real old real quick.

Yeah, I have many years before I get to that, and this is the second car, so it won't be used daily for family stuff. But I definitely see how that could get annoying :biggrin:

 

[Kaido]

Sucks it has to be an auto the Focus and Fiesta STs are a lot of fun

Could look at a WRX with the CVT

Checked out the WRX, but actually not super interested in it. If anything I'd go Evo :awe:

I don't fit in the Fiesta. My left leg curved pretty badly along the door :biggrin: The Focus was snug but not bad. Focus RS...now we're talking, hehehe.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Yeah, I have many years before I get to that, and this is the second car, so it won't be used daily for family stuff. But I definitely see how that could get annoying :biggrin:

It goes by very quickly... trust me. :biggrin:

Mine is only a few years away from driving.

 

[SearchMaster]

Expect the I4 to not achieve the advertised mileage in real world scenarios. These tiny turbo engines are good for gaming mileage tests, but when in the hands of actual drivers, they can't perform nearly as advertised. This is pretty much a given for almost all the small turbo gasoline engines regardless of manufacturer.

Over the last 24,500 miles, I'm averaging 30.53MPG in my 2.0 EcoBoost Focus ST. The EPA rates it at 23/32. Most of my driving is "ideal" for MPG (rural area, 45 MPH speed limit, few stop signs or traffic lights) but that seems pretty spot on as far as the estimates. And yes, I drive pretty conservatively too...a couple of times per tank I'll push her pretty hard but I don't care much for stoplight racing. However I do enjoy whipping her around corners. I will say that the new Michelin Pilot Super Sports are yielding a full 2 MPG less than the OEM Eagle F1's did. These things are sticky.

 

[Kaido]

The BRZ\FRS definitely seem like a car for a specific use case.
A BRZ\FRS is spot on for the roads I frequent for "pleasure driving". Roads where Vettes\Mustangs\late model Porches\ become ponderous exercises in placement and throttle control.
Cars like the FRS and Miata fit perfectly.

Its definitely not going paint a pretty picture if you jump from something with power on a basic test drive into a FRS\BRZ.

That's actually what surprised me about the Mustang, is just how practical it was. It was probably the first sporty car I had driven with really good visibility. My state has some crazy weird merges & stuff (and I sometimes have to drive in Boston, which is even nuttier in certain areas), so that's nice. Aside from RWD in the winter, I could definitely see it being my DD, especially if it gets anywhere near the advertised mileage (again, coming from a 28 MPG max Kia haha).

 

[nerp]

The 200 has a lot of insulation and sound deadening to give it a quiet, smooth ride, which is what buyers in that segment typically want. Usually they want out of their 12 year old rattlebox. It has more power and grunt than the minivan but the minivan FEELS more impressive because you're hearing/feeling more of the road. Personally, I'd go with what you really will be using the car for every day - soaking up miles.

 

[Wingznut]

You have kids and you were actually considering a BRZ/FRS? I wouldn't even consider the Mustang, or any 2 door, in that scenario. Kids do get bigger over time you know, especially if you feed them.

I owned a 2-dr sports car when I had two young kids. Don't do it. Jules is right. It's just not worth the hassle.

You can easily fit 2 carseats in the BRZ - here's a photo from google images:

Nevermind that the passenger's seat is as far forward as it can go, rendering it completely uncomfortable, and dangerous in a crash. And where's the driver's seat... Tilted forward?

 

[Kaido]

The 200 has a lot of insulation and sound deadening to give it a quiet, smooth ride, which is what buyers in that segment typically want. Usually they want out of their 12 year old rattlebox. It has more power and grunt than the minivan but the minivan FEELS more impressive because you're hearing/feeling more of the road. Personally, I'd go with what you really will be using the car for every day - soaking up miles.

For that, the Prius would win out for sure. But at 32 MPG advertised, I can live with the Mustang :biggrin:

 

[Kaido]

Nevermind that the passenger's seat is as far forward as it can go, rendering it completely uncomfortable, and dangerous in a crash. And where's the driver's seat... Tilted forward?

You've got a good point there!

 

[Kaido]

Expect the I4 to not achieve the advertised mileage in real world scenarios. These tiny turbo engines are good for gaming mileage tests, but when in the hands of actual drivers, they can't perform nearly as advertised. This is pretty much a given for almost all the small turbo gasoline engines regardless of manufacturer.

In truth, I expect that in the real world, the v6 probably gets better (or at least equal) mileage.

The sales guy said the V6 is faster than the V4. I dunno tho, that turbo is pretty dang fun! But no turbo maintenance or premium to put in also sounds pretty nice. No one within a couple counties even has a V6 tho, let alone an automatic one. I had to drive halfway across the state to test-drive an auto Ecoboost today (for the record, yes it is VERY fun!), although it was +$10k in options over the base model I want. Plus I want a specific color (green), so if I decide to go for that, I'll have to order it from the factory.

I took a Mazda 6 out today. Overall very nice, only two nitpicks: weird off the line (like a Prius, has a little jiggle-hiccup from a dead stop & kinda slow off the line, but fine once it picks up, and Skyactiv is great going up hills & such), and the interior touchpoints felt, ah, not very durable at all. Like paper leather (the non-premium model). Sat in a fully-loaded CX-5, surprisingly nice & HUGE trunk. Looked at the 3 hatchback but didn't take it out. I think I've pretty much narrowed it down to the Mustang. Their upper-end models were pretty slick, hard to beat for the money with all the stuff they come with.

 

[HitAnyKey]

Did you drive the Mazda CX-5 (with the 2.5)? I hear that is the best road trip / daily driver Mazda makes at the moment.

Mustang is nice but driving one in a snow storm with your kids in the back is another story completely. With a set of snows it should be fine for the most part. And yes I do think the V6 is the smarter choice overall. That would be my choice as a daily driver.

Good luck tire kicking!

 

[pauldun170]

The sales guy said the V6 is faster than the V4. I dunno tho, that turbo is pretty dang fun! But no turbo maintenance or premium to put in also sounds pretty nice. No one within a couple counties even has a V6 tho, let alone an automatic one. I had to drive halfway across the state to test-drive an auto Ecoboost today (for the record, yes it is VERY fun!), although it was +$10k in options over the base model I want. Plus I want a specific color (green), so if I decide to go for that, I'll have to order it from the factory.

I took a Mazda 6 out today. Overall very nice, only two nitpicks: weird off the line (like a Prius, has a little jiggle-hiccup from a dead stop & kinda slow off the line, but fine once it picks up, and Skyactiv is great going up hills & such), and the interior touchpoints felt, ah, not very durable at all. Like paper leather (the non-premium model). Sat in a fully-loaded CX-5, surprisingly nice & HUGE trunk. Looked at the 3 hatchback but didn't take it out. I think I've pretty much narrowed it down to the Mustang. Their upper-end models were pretty slick, hard to beat for the money with all the stuff they come with.

I've heard great things about the previous Mustang V6. With the current V6, you lose out on a lot of options (performance pack\axle ratios) for 2015 but the base car is allegedly still a great car (at least the manual). I've heard some actually prefer the V6 to the turbo so it sounds like it comes you need to test drive them both.
Assuming you are not going to modify the engine...
The bonus for the V6 is more character in the V6 and cheaper, just as quick as the regular ecoboost for less money at the expense of fuel economy.
The Ecoboost with the performance pack ($$$$) blows away the V6 but then the fuel economy takes a hit and is on par with the V6.

If you are going to tinker under the hood, both engines have a lot of power potential but the ecoboost is going to be cheaper to get power out of it.

Ford did a decent job with setting up the tiers even though a few people are annoyed they dropped the performance package for the v6.
It all comes down to how much you want to spend.

 

[Kaido]

Did you drive the Mazda CX-5 (with the 2.5)? I hear that is the best road trip / daily driver Mazda makes at the moment.

Mustang is nice but driving one in a snow storm with your kids in the back is another story completely. With a set of snows it should be fine for the most part. And yes I do think the V6 is the smarter choice overall. That would be my choice as a daily driver.

Good luck tire kicking!

No, but I sat in it, and was VERY impressed. Fully-loaded with pretty much every option ever was $30k, and I would absolutely buy it over say a CR-V. Huge trunk, plenty of room, lots of nice features, etc. But after driving my wife's Forester for a week, I'd be hard-pressed to buy anything else in the small SUV category honestly...EyeSight with great visibility is hard to beat!

Again, my car is the work DD with occasional kid pickup, so I doubt I'd even go out in a snowstorm with it, but I probably would get snows just in case. They sand & salt pretty well here, so waiting a few hours to go into work would result in a nice driving surface. That's really the only hangup I see with the Mustang...RWD in the snow is not so hot. Not undoable with snow tires, traction control, stability control, etc. but not as nice as an AWD ride either haha.

 

[Kaido]

I've heard great things about the previous Mustang V6. With the current V6, you lose out on a lot of options (performance pack\axle ratios) for 2015 but the base car is allegedly still a great car (at least the manual). I've heard some actually prefer the V6 to the turbo so it sounds like it comes you need to test drive them both.
Assuming you are not going to modify the engine...
The bonus for the V6 is more character in the V6 and cheaper, just as quick as the regular ecoboost for less money at the expense of fuel economy.
The Ecoboost with the performance pack ($$$$) blows away the V6 but then the fuel economy takes a hit and is on par with the V6.

If you are going to tinker under the hood, both engines have a lot of power potential but the ecoboost is going to be cheaper to get power out of it.

Ford did a decent job with setting up the tiers even though a few people are annoyed they dropped the performance package for the v6.
It all comes down to how much you want to spend.

The most I would do is put on a better exhaust & maybe some aesthetic stuff, but I will probably never touch the engine to be honest. I really enjoyed the Ecoboost, way more than I thought I would actually, so I'm really interested in seeing how the V6 fares. I thought that driving it in automatic would be a downer, but it was actually really fun & would be kind of a welcome relief on the 90-minute stop & go days haha. Again, it's entirely too practical of a car: the visibility was better than my Civic (which has windows that curve up in the back that limit your view when merging), the MPG is not just acceptable but pretty good, it's fun to drive, has a good safety rating, etc. Plus I've seen that people are getting the 2015 V6 base for as low as $22k OTD; my leased Civic was like a $21k model iirc, so that's really fantastic per my budget. Everything I've taken out at the dealer has been in the $35k range; thanks to Truecar, they drop the price immediately by $3k (or more), so there's a lot of wiggle room there, but all I'm really looking for is Bluetooth & Cruise Control in terms of features, so nothing too fancy. The only thing I haven't figured out is whether radar cruise is available on the non-GT models; none of the dealers are familiar with the Mustang options, somewhat surprisingly, and the website isn't super helpful:

http://www.edmunds.com/ford/mustang...-ford-mustang-gt-adaptive-cruise-control.html

 

[Meghan54]

Are you buying or going to lease again? For me, it'd make worlds of difference in what I chose. Leasing...take the Mustang. You seem to like it and you're not stuck with it and its 2 dr. restrictions/sacrifices for a decade of child growth. You can move to something "sensible" in a couple of years as you'll need to.

Buying...4 dr. without a doubt, unless you plan on buying new again in 3 years. You're going to get very tired of the 2 dr. tango very quickly.

 

[Kaido]

Are you buying or going to lease again? For me, it'd make worlds of difference in what I chose. Leasing...take the Mustang. You seem to like it and you're not stuck with it and its 2 dr. restrictions/sacrifices for a decade of child growth. You can move to something "sensible" in a couple of years as you'll need to.

Buying...4 dr. without a doubt, unless you plan on buying new again in 3 years. You're going to get very tired of the 2 dr. tango very quickly.

Buying...drive too many miles these days. Again, it's not the primary family car, just the occasional picker-upper, and it's actually easier to manage the carseat than our small sedan because the front seat flips down for easy access. I'd probably just buy a second car seat to keep in there permanently though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvTXqB4Xd4o

The one thing I am considering is the V6 model (which is the base model) because I plan on keeping it for a long time; turbos don't have the best history of longevity as compared to vanilla engines, although I don't know what how the Ecoboosts will fare over the long term. Plus it just takes plain old gas, no premium to worry about (although the 2.3L V4 can take either...and I'm curious about both the MPG hit & how the 35 HP power drop would actually feel on regular fuel). But, gotta take the V6 for a test drive first!

 

[pauldun170]

Buying...drive too many miles these days. Again, it's not the primary family car, just the occasional picker-upper, and it's actually easier to manage the carseat than our small sedan because the front seat flips down for easy access. I'd probably just buy a second car seat to keep in there permanently though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvTXqB4Xd4o

The one thing I am considering is the V6 model (which is the base model) because I plan on keeping it for a long time; turbos don't have the best history of longevity as compared to vanilla engines, although I don't know what how the Ecoboosts will fare over the long term. Plus it just takes plain old gas, no premium to worry about (although the 2.3L V4 can take either...and I'm curious about both the MPG hit & how the 35 HP power drop would actually feel on regular fuel). But, gotta take the V6 for a test drive first!

When comparing mpg a vanilla ecoboost vs the V6, are you factoring in the extra cost of the ecoboost model over the V6?

I'm curious to see how your test of the V6 turns out and how it compares to the Ecoboost.

 

[LTC8K6]

EPA page for the 2.3L Mustang and Lincoln MKC both say regular gasoline.

So, the EPA rated it on 87 octane.

If rating it on premium would have generated higher mpg numbers, Ford probably would have done so.

So, I doubt that premium fuel gives any better mpg numbers.

 

[LTC8K6]

Sounds like a low hp loss to me. Turbocharged cars do not like low octane gasoline.

Ford has been dodgy on the issue for a long time.

The owner's manual will say to use 87 octane.

The owner's manual will also often say to use premium "for better performance" or "towing".

Well, I always need better performance.

 

[Kaido]

When comparing mpg a vanilla ecoboost vs the V6, are you factoring in the extra cost of the ecoboost model over the V6?

I'm curious to see how your test of the V6 turns out and how it compares to the Ecoboost.

That's the thing...the price has been extremely negotiable, especially when coming in with Truecar at your side. In fact, the Truecar pricing for the auto V6 vs. the auto V4 base models in my area are really close to each other (~$1250 price difference), which is a lot smaller than the MSRP calculators on Ford's website makes them out to be. That works out to an extra twenty bucks a month on the payment (or zero, if I want to throw down a grand up front). That'd be more handy if I actually wanted any features on it (so far every dealer has quickly dropped the price by $3k to $3.5k right off the bat), but even with that 'discount', it's still $6k more than I want to pay haha.

Having the Internet available as a pricing resource has been incredibly helpful. For example, when I stopped at Toyota the other day, I took out a base 2015 Prius II with a sticker of nearly $26k. I asked him what his best price is, he said $25k flat. I pulled out my Truecar certificate, he looked at, looked at me, and said $21.5k. $3.5k off magically, zero negotiation required. Makes the process a LOT nicer!

I think I've narrowed it down to the Mustang as the next car. Next actions are to find a V6 to test, decide if I want the Ecoboost or the 6, and then have them find the model I want. Seeing how scarce autos are in the V4, and since I want the green color, I may have to order from the factory, which takes about 10 weeks. Seems kind of silly to order a base model auto from the factory, but that would give me the price, color, motor, and transmission I'm looking for. Plus, I'm in no rush...the Civic is a nice car & there's plenty of time left on the lease, so I have lots of time to shop around.

I will say, it is exhausting doing car shopping when you're really digging into different models. I've learned that the best trick for visiting a dealership is to do a walk-in, go for a test drive in the model you want, and then take off before they run numbers & bring out the sales manager for extra pressure. It's the same story at every dealership I've been to, so I learned pretty quickly to skirt the office visit in order to save time, especially since they'll meet the Truecar number right off the bat :biggrin:

 

[Kaido]

Ford has been dodgy on the issue for a long time.

The owner's manual will say to use 87 octane.

The owner's manual will also often say to use premium "for better performance" or "towing".

Well, I always need better performance.

That's the nice thing about the Ecoboost...you have the option of using either. Right now, premium is cheap, so it's an easy decision for having fun. If it hops up to five bucks a gallon again, it's nice to be able to some money by going with regular. I'd like to see how the V4 drives on regular gas, but I think I'd have to pick one up & try it out myself to see what it really feels like. A bit more info & discussion here:

http://www.carscoops.com/2015/01/2015-mustang-ecoboost-will-lose-35hp.html

What this means for you if you'd rather pump regular 87 octane fuel, is an 11.3% loss in power (35 fewer HP) and a 20 lb-ft peak torque loss. Or about 6.25%. Visiting the forums, it's more than apparent that Mustang owners who have used 93 octane gas have experienced noticeable improvement in real world performance.

It's a pretty known fact (according to many on the Mustang forums) that the V6's get better MPG on 89 octane then on the recommended 87. They also say that the 93 doesn't improve it beyond the 89 octane. Haven't seen anything on actual dyno results, except when they get into after market tuners.

I don't think it's mis-advertising at all...it's a turbo...premium is what turbos like. I think it's a nice feature that you can put in regular gas without hurting the engine.

 

[Kaido]

EPA page for the 2.3L Mustang and Lincoln MKC both say regular gasoline.

So, the EPA rated it on 87 octane.

If rating it on premium would have generated higher mpg numbers, Ford probably would have done so.

So, I doubt that premium fuel gives any better mpg numbers.

A couple cars back, I had an older Volvo S80 twin-turbo straight-six. It was a pretty fun car, despite the weight. But putting in regular gas killed all of the fun - it was just a V6, nothing special. However, using premium made it a whole different ballgame! Super fun to punch! So, I'd be curious to see how that worked in a Mustang. Or if the non-turbo 6 would be just as good. I really liked the Ecoboost, tried out both the stick & the automatic. Just need to find a 6 without having to drive out of the state! Haha.

 

[SearchMaster]

The 2.0EB in the Focus ST only drops 5hp by using regular, though there does seem to be a smallish MPG hit as well. I've only used premium, but most forum members report no noticeable difference in performance (5hp is only 2% so that makes sense). I'm surprised there's an 11% drop in the 2.3TB.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Buying...drive too many miles these days. Again, it's not the primary family car, just the occasional picker-upper, and it's actually easier to manage the carseat than our small sedan because the front seat flips down for easy access. I'd probably just buy a second car seat to keep in there permanently though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvTXqB4Xd4o

The one thing I am considering is the V6 model (which is the base model) because I plan on keeping it for a long time; turbos don't have the best history of longevity as compared to vanilla engines, although I don't know what how the Ecoboosts will fare over the long term. Plus it just takes plain old gas, no premium to worry about (although the 2.3L V4 can take either...and I'm curious about both the MPG hit & how the 35 HP power drop would actually feel on regular fuel). But, gotta take the V6 for a test drive first!

How old are your kids? Can they get in and out of a car themselves?

 

[PhoKingGuy]

The 2.0EB in the Focus ST only drops 5hp by using regular, though there does seem to be a smallish MPG hit as well. I've only used premium, but most forum members report no noticeable difference in performance (5hp is only 2% so that makes sense). I'm surprised there's an 11% drop in the 2.3TB.

The new VW 1.8T feels no different in my Passat with 87 vs 91. It says 87 on the gas cap.