Test drive day

[Kaido]

Poking around replacing our leased Civic early; I'm all over the map with options. Today's test drives:

1. Chrysler 200 AWD: (sedan) Fantastic on paper, but...nothing exciting about it IRL. 295 HP, AWD, 9-speed auto, sounds like a dream. Meh. It had some power, sure, but it didn't do anything for me.

2. Kia Sedona: (minivan) Oh my gosh, this was FUN! The 6-cylinder sounded great & had PLENTY of power! I wouldn't consider any other minivan to be honest. Drove great, lots of room, all kinds of features, and even the base model had plenty of goodies. Truecar has the base for $25k, which makes it a truckload cheaper than competing brands. CG felt low & can handle turns great, rides smooth, turns easy, I was really excited about. Plus the higher-end models had these awesome recliner chairs in the middle that were just awesome, haha.

3. Ford Mustang: (coupe) Took the Ecoboost out. AMAZING. Felt like a V8. I have no idea how they did it. Your brain says 4-cylinder turbo, but your heart says WHOOHOO! The turbo lag is actually pretty minimal too, and really cranks on when you push it, especially in second gear! Interior was snug but not tight. I didn't feel cramped, and my knees were fine. Nice retro-ish interior design. Visibility was surprisingly good. 32 MPG highway on the automatic (my wife requires automatic...4-cylinder automatic in a Mustang is borderline anti-American, but I have to look at it as a step up from the Civic, haha). I took the 6-speed out because it was all they had; I'm taking out a 4-cylinder & 6-cylinder auto out later this week to compare. The V6 isn't that far off in MPG or power; the Ecoboost likes premium (310 HP, drops down to 275 on regular), so that's something to consider.

4. Scion FRS: (coupe) I've had my heart set on a BRZ for a couple years now, absolutely love the design. No Subaru dealer locally had any, so I buzzed over to a Toyota dealer to try an FRS. I have never been so disappointed in a car in my entire life. First of all, ridiculously small. I wasn't prepared for how tiny it was; I was pretty shocked at the compact size. The pictures make it look soooo much bigger. The seats were bad (for me); the bolsters were so turned in that I actually had a bit of a hard time breathing (go love handles go!). And everyone's always told me it's a slow car, but c'mon, 200 HP in a compact coupe? That's plenty right? NOPE. My old Honda Fit blows it away off the line. And even revved up, it (1) doesn't sound awesome, and (2) doesn't ever really feel super fast or anything. So incredibly disappointed. Glad I took it out so I know not to love it anymore. Everyone also hyped up the handling, but I didn't feel like it was anything special. To be honest, I have more fun driving the Civic...

5. Toyota Prius II: Surprisingly nice! I took one out a few years ago & was not happy with it; this was is a lot better! It can merge & pass just fine; I didn't feel unsafe on the highway like I did with the old model. 50 MPG or whatever, pretty nice. Had nice legroom, although my knees knocked on each side, so I'd need to buy some foam for knee pads. Doable for the price vs. MPG ($21k base with Truecar). Drove great & the backseat flipped down nicely to give you plenty of room with the hatchback. Backseat was usable too, which is nice.

Upcoming test drives:

1. Subaru Outback: (wagon) Going to check out the 4 & 6-cylinder models. The 4-cylinder cuts it in my wife's Forester, but one reviewer said it's a bit dicey in the Outback.

2. Subaru Impreza: (5-door) This is basically an AWD Civic wagon. 37 MPG highway. I could buy out my Civic, but for about the same price, I could get this, not have to worry about snow, and get a little more space in the back for hauling crap around. Nothing exciting. It's like 148 HP. I'd probably get the base model with no features if I went with this, just a basic all-weather commuter car.

3. Mazda 6: (sedan) Originally I really liked the new 3 hatchback, but wasn't crazy after seeing it IRL. The 6 OTOH actually looks great (both the red & black look awesome). 184 HP, 37 MPG highway, looks roomy, $21k starting price.

Other option is to get another Forester with EyeSight. It's kind of a "never think about it again" car, which I like. Subarus are pricey cars & EyeSight is a pricey option, but that adaptive cruise control is amazing & it feels like a car that I could easily own for ten years without a hitch. So I'm hitting up Ford (test the auto & compare the V6 vs. the V4 Ecoboost), Mazda (6 sedan), and Subaru (4-cyl Outback, 3.6R Outback, Impreza wagon) this week to finish checking things out. One other one I'm considering is the 2016 Volt, which has an upgraded 50-mile battery (my daily commute is 45 miles, and there's a possibility I could charge up at work for free) & no longer requires premium fuel, so that's a pretty compelling option, although that's not available until November. Lots to think about. Right now the Mustang is at the top of my list: 32 MPG, good visibility, comfortable interior, super super fun to drive. Only catch is not great in winter thanks to RWD.

 

[LTC8K6]

Ecoboost likes premium (310 HP, drops down to 275 on regular)

That sounds way off. Got a link?

 

[Kaido]

That sounds way off. Got a link?

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1096208_ford-mustang-ecoboost-less-power-on-regular-gas

The new 2015 Ford Mustang coupe too offers an EcoBoost engine, in this case a 2.3-liter four-cylinder rated at 310 horsepower and 320 lb-ft of torque, as a four-figure option.

Now, however, a leaked training manual indicates that those figures only apply when the car is run on premium (93-octane) gasoline.

As revealed by Mustang6G.com, the engine's output falls to 275 hp and 300 lb-ft when run on regular (87-octane) gasoline. Those are losses of 11 percent in power and 6 percent in torque, respectively.

More info & pics here:

http://www.mustang6g.com/?p=4973

I'm curious to see how the automatic stacks up. I hate that I have to look at an automatic, but again - it's better than nothing :awe:

 

[NutBucket]

You already stated your wife drives the Fozzy. What am I missing?

 

[LTC8K6]

It still seems like a really high hp loss.

You can't even get 93 octane in California.

 

[Kaido]

You already stated your wife drives the Fozzy. What am I missing?

We swap cars during the week based on schedule & availability (we both do main jobs & freelance work), kid pickup, etc. Compromise for now is automatic only. It works because they're doing construction on my route over the river for the next two years, so I sometimes sit in stop & go traffic for over an hour...auto would actually be welcome for those bad jam days. I'll test drive an auto 'stang & see how horrible it is tomorrow :biggrin:

 

[Kaido]

It still seems like a really high hp loss.

You can't even get 93 octane in California.

The other dealer I'm checking out has both V4 & V6 autos, so I'll see how they fare. The V4 is appealing due to the fuel economy, although I'd be curious to know what the MPG is of premium vs. regular on that engine (read that it's actually about the same, just a performance loss...but the V6 has 300hp on regular vs. 275 dropped with the Ecoboost, so there's that). I don't even know if I'll want one after driving the automatic, but it's worth checking out because it's a surprisingly realistic car:

1. $2k more than my Civic, which is not horrible considering how fun it is
2. Surprisingly good visibility
3. Again, surprisingly good fuel economy
4. Great safety rating
5. RWD but with TC/ESC to help in snow (and they do salt/sand here plenty)

So it'd be a little more per month for a lot more fun. I'm definitely not a Mustang enthusiast by any means, but I've driven fairly basic cars for awhile (Saturns, Kias, low-end Hondas, etc.) so it's kind of nice to have something with a tad bit more pickup for my DD haha. Economically, it'd be cheapest to either buy out the lease or do something like a basic $18k Legacy wagon that has a warranty, zero miles, lower payment, and AWD, and just buzz around in that for the next 5 or 10 years, but where's the fun in that

 

[Kaido]

I'm still upset about the BRZ. I'm really glad I was able to go on a test drive & find out for sure that it was definitely not for me (the local Subaru dealers never have them in stock because they disappear so quickly, so I'm super glad I didn't order one without trying it out first!!). Pretty much everything about it was disappointing:

1. Tiny. Once inside, not bad, but overall...tiny. Low to the ground. Felt like half the car you see in pictures. Almost thought it was the Power Wheels version when I showed up Tiny to the point where it was kind of hard to get out of, I had to kind of twist back as I got out to find something to hold on to. Minor thing, but still a thing!

2. Seats squished my stomach in. I'm not a big guy by any means, 6' tall, but not exactly what I'd call wide. I felt like I needed to be even skinnier to really enjoy the seats. I was literally having a little trouble breathing due to the bolstering. Never had that issue in any car...ever. One of the Mustangs I sat in had Recaro seats that were much better - same grippiness, but didn't make me feel like I was being squeezed around the love handles.

3. Not that everything felt cheap persay, but kind of like it was a lot of hard plastic. I mean, it definitely felt like a sub-$30k sports car, if that makes sense. Which is weird because the sub-$25k Mustang was awesome! (the Mustang is really the only thing I have to compare it to, especially since I took both out for a spin same-day)

4. The engine...oh so disappointing. The noise, the off-the-line acceleration, and the pickup once it caught, all were super meh. I went from driving a 4-cylinder Ecoboost 310 HP Mustang to a 200 HP 4-cylinder FRS. Lightyears apart. The BRZ/FRS apologists I read online who say that more power would mess up the great handling...no, no, and nope. At MINIMUM it needs a turbo. Really, it needs more horsepower AND a turbo. I'm betting the Focus RS with the 300+ HP Ecoboost engine from the Mustang will just be amazing compared to this (plus have AWD!). I didn't care for the noise, either. It definitely wasn't the American muscle sound & feel like the Mustang, and it wasn't even Fast & Furious in those regards. Slow off the line. It picked up once it got going, but not nearly as much as I liked...I had to loop around again on the side road to the dealership to make sure I was feeling it right, because as soon as the power kicked in above 25 my first gut reaction was "nope, this is not the car for me". Insert sadface.

5. The driving dynamics were nowhere near where I thought they would be either. I've read endless praises sung online to the car about the amazing handling & blah blah blah. I feel like my base Civic LX could whup this car both in the engine & handling department, haha. I was hanging out with my cousin & we were both laughing our heads off as we drove out of the dealership in the Civic because it was such a better "sports" car

So, that dream was dashed. Fortunately I have a black BRZ model sitting here on my desk, so I can enjoy the beauty of the car, despite it not living up to my expectations. And interestingly enough, the Mustang that I took out for fun really captured my imagination, and is also a very realistic car...I was able to get the baby's carseat in just fine (easy to pop down the front set to get him in, too!), so that was no hassle at all, and I fit comfortably in it, again with no knee-knocking, which is a big issue I have in a lot of cars from being slightly tall (the Civic, all of the Nissan sedans, the Prius on both knees, etc.). Plus the model I was interested in was $4k less than the BRZ, although I just checked & the BRZ is advertised at 34 MPG highway vs. the Mustang's 32 (with auto Ecoboost), so it does have an advantage there. The interesting thing is that a guy who was big on the BRZ on Youtube made the same shift to a Mustang:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lzXgGo9wNU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY8DUnxuWi0

Having never previously driven either, I didn't understand the grin he had in the Ecoboost Mustang, but I do now! It's like going from an Acer to an Alienware...BIG difference! I'm really glad I got the change to test-drive both & get my hands on each model :thumbsup:

 

[XavierMace]

Most everything you've said about the FRS echo's what I've said about them (after 2 years of ownership) save for number 2 and 5.

Unless the FRS's seats are drastically different than the BRZ's, I don't see how number 2 is possible. I'm 6'2" and fat (sorry, "wide") and I had no problems with the seats.

I know the FRS's suspension is softer than the BRZ's but I don't see it possibly being so much different that I could claim a Civic is better with a straight face. Compared to the IS300 it replaced and the 135i I have now, the BRZ's handling was amazing. Everyone I had in the passenger seat for spirited driving said the same thing. Although I'm curious how much you could have possibly tested this on a test drive.

Regarding the interior, as funny as it sounds to say, the Subaru does have the better interior. I was quite happy with my BRZ Limited. Alcantara seats and steering wheel. Leather dash. It was nicer than I expected.

 

[Kaido]

Most everything you've said about the FRS echo's what I've said about them (after 2 years of ownership) save for number 2 and 5.

Unless the FRS's seats are drastically different than the BRZ's, I don't see how number 2 is possible. I'm 6'2" and fat (sorry, "wide") and I had no problems with the seats.

I know the FRS's suspension is softer than the BRZ's but I don't see it possibly being so much different that I could claim a Civic is better with a straight face. Compared to the IS300 it replaced and the 135i I have now, the BRZ's handling was amazing. Everyone I had in the passenger seat for spirited driving said the same thing. Although I'm curious how much you could have possibly tested this on a test drive.

Regarding the interior, as funny as it sounds to say, the Subaru does have the better interior. I was quite happy with my BRZ Limited. Alcantara seats and steering wheel. Leather dash. It was nicer than I expected.

I probably should have spent more time throwing it around corners, but it was a quick test drive & I knew right away that it wasn't for me. Also, my test model just had the cloth. Interesting that yours fit better. I was really surprised at the over-zealous hug it gave me.

I've seen some lowered BRZ's in pictures online & thought they looked cool, but now have no idea why you'd want to do that since it's already so low to the ground!

 

[JulesMaximus]

We swap cars during the week based on schedule & availability (we both do main jobs & freelance work), kid pickup, etc. Compromise for now is automatic only. It works because they're doing construction on my route over the river for the next two years, so I sometimes sit in stop & go traffic for over an hour...auto would actually be welcome for those bad jam days. I'll test drive an auto 'stang & see how horrible it is tomorrow :biggrin:

You have kids and you were actually considering a BRZ/FRS? I wouldn't even consider the Mustang, or any 2 door, in that scenario. Kids do get bigger over time you know, especially if you feed them.

 

[pauldun170]

I probably should have spent more time throwing it around corners, but it was a quick test drive & I knew right away that it wasn't for me. Also, my test model just had the cloth. Interesting that yours fit better. I was really surprised at the over-zealous hug it gave me.

I've seen some lowered BRZ's in pictures online & thought they looked cool, but now have no idea why you'd want to do that since it's already so low to the ground!

The BRZ\FRS definitely seem like a car for a specific use case.
A BRZ\FRS is spot on for the roads I frequent for "pleasure driving". Roads where Vettes\Mustangs\late model Porches\ become ponderous exercises in placement and throttle control.
Cars like the FRS and Miata fit perfectly.

Its definitely not going paint a pretty picture if you jump from something with power on a basic test drive into a FRS\BRZ.

 

[fleshconsumed]

This has got to be a troll post. There are no 5 door Subaru Legacy sold in the US, and if we're talking about 4 door version it is a mid size sedan, much larger than a civic. 295hp Chrysler was meh, but Kia Sedona, a minivan, was fun? And 117hp Honda Fit blows away Scion FRS? This is either a troll or a very very confused individual.

 

[Spicedaddy]

Those choices are all over the place... A Sedona and an FRS?

Decide what kind of car you want, then go try the 4-5 best contenders in that category.

 

[SearchMaster]

Other option is to get another Forester with EyeSight.

Ugh, don't do that. Two of the EXACT same car within a couple of weeks of each other? BOR-ING.

 

[NutBucket]

I like our Fozzy but it is a complete snooze fest.

 

[Kaido]

You have kids and you were actually considering a BRZ/FRS? I wouldn't even consider the Mustang, or any 2 door, in that scenario. Kids do get bigger over time you know, especially if you feed them.

You can easily fit 2 carseats in the BRZ - here's a photo from google images:

I can't remember if there's a specific law, but I think you keep kids in booster seats until they're like 8 years old or something ridiculous, so that would give me many years of service until I needed something bigger. It's a non-issue. Checked it out with the car seat in the Mustang, plenty of room. Plus it's not the full-time family vehicle (it's mainly my work ride), so that helps :biggrin:

 

[Kaido]

This has got to be a troll post. There are no 5 door Subaru Legacy sold in the US, and if we're talking about 4 door version it is a mid size sedan, much larger than a civic. 295hp Chrysler was meh, but Kia Sedona, a minivan, was fun? And 117hp Honda Fit blows away Scion FRS? This is either a troll or a very very confused individual.

Oops, I miswrote that, sorry. My friend just got a Legacy so I had a brain fart; I meant to say the hatchback Impreza, which they list as a 5-door - my bad. Edited.

Yeah, the AWD 300 was nifty but just didn't have much of a draw for me. Just a powerful sedan. Plenty of those available, but nothing that really called my name. The Sedona, believe it or not, was surprisingly fun! Had a good engine sound too. It was a nice departure from a regular minivan, I actually really liked it! Downside is the MPG - wouldn't be so hot for a DD (despite being comfortable & having a lot of room to tote stuff around in), but it'd be nice to have that available & not have to rent a truck from Home Depot anytime I wanted to do a project at home.

As far as the Fit goes, just off the line, it feels a LOT quicker (like 0 to 20 MPH). Above that sure, no contest, but the FRS just didn't feel as fast or as zippy as I was looking for. Still love the design at least!

 

[jlee]

It still seems like a really high hp loss.

You can't even get 93 octane in California.

Sounds like a low hp loss to me. Turbocharged cars do not like low octane gasoline.

 

[Kaido]

Ugh, don't do that. Two of the EXACT same car within a couple of weeks of each other? BOR-ING.

I like our Fozzy but it is a complete snooze fest.

I know, I know I like it, but it is very unexciting. I don't think I would invest in a turbo, either...CVT turbo, super-meh. But as far as a car that works for everything, that you never want to have to think about it again...it's the ticket! Best thing I can compare it to is a Mac computer...it's pricey, but it's solid, will last awhile without headache, and has great resale value :awe:

 

[Kaido]

Those choices are all over the place... A Sedona and an FRS?

Decide what kind of car you want, then go try the 4-5 best contenders in that category.

Nah man, ADD approach or bust :biggrin:

The only really specific goals are decent gas mileage, family-friendly-ish (although it's my commuter), and automatic. I'm not really a 'category' person at all...I don't like to pick a group & then narrow it down, instead I like to look at all the options & pick out the ones that appeal to me, rather than just the best contenders. I see the merits of the Sedona (comfortable, roomy, surprisingly fun to drive with good power) just as much as the FRS (gorgeous design to my eyes etc.). Basically I like what I like, rather than I like what the best in the category is, if that makes sense.

 

[Kaido]

Sounds like a low hp loss to me. Turbocharged cars do not like low octane gasoline.

I'm curious to see how the V6 feels. Would save some green, but still have reasonably good gas mileage (better than my Kia at any rate!). Also curious about regular gas in the Ecoboost in terms of MPG, but there's not a lot of solid data available for that.

 

[Ferzerp]

Expect the I4 to not achieve the advertised mileage in real world scenarios. These tiny turbo engines are good for gaming mileage tests, but when in the hands of actual drivers, they can't perform nearly as advertised. This is pretty much a given for almost all the small turbo gasoline engines regardless of manufacturer.

In truth, I expect that in the real world, the v6 probably gets better (or at least equal) mileage.

 

[MajorMullet]

Sucks it has to be an auto the Focus and Fiesta STs are a lot of fun

Could look at a WRX with the CVT

 

[JulesMaximus]

You can easily fit 2 carseats in the BRZ - here's a photo from google images:

I can't remember if there's a specific law, but I think you keep kids in booster seats until they're like 8 years old or something ridiculous, so that would give me many years of service until I needed something bigger. It's a non-issue. Checked it out with the car seat in the Mustang, plenty of room. Plus it's not the full-time family vehicle (it's mainly my work ride), so that helps :biggrin:

My son is 12 and he's 5'4" tall. I doubt he would be comfortable in the back seat of a BRZ. He hasn't been in a child seat in probably 6 years. I've owned nothing but 4 door sedans since he was 2.

Getting kids, especially infants, in and out of a 2 door gets real old real quick.