Tesla Motors death watch

[preslove]

Anyone who thought they were going belly up when this thread started was an idiot. They were (and still, right?) selling every car they produced and had a long waiting line.

I'd love to own one because of the whole full-power-from-stop thing. The 0-60 on those things is insane.

 

[PricklyPete]

I see several Model S daily here in Denver.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

Show everyone how its done Mr. Musk.

 

[JM Aggie08]

Sure, I'm going to fly Connecticut to New Jersey for a football game and fly back home. Because people who can afford $80K for a car do that all the time.

You expect people to rent cars to go to meetings? To visit somewhat distant relatives for a single day? For an out of town game? For a trip into the city to see a show?

I can see why you're a Tesla fan. It's a car that isn't built for the REAL world and you don't happen to live in the real world either.

Lol.

 

[Brovane]

Where is your Tesla car?

Its still a product that exists only due to rich hippsters.

Regardless where their stock is, that's completely irrelevant.

We have a dealer in our town, it's completely empty with one car in the showroom. I still haven't seen a soul there and it seems like they have 1 employe......in the building size of a huge warehouse.

The thread was about Tesla Motors failing as a company. Obviously it hasn't. I guess that didn't work so now it is time to change directions, huh?

 

[ViviTheMage]

Anyone who thought they were going belly up when this thread started was an idiot. They were (and still, right?) selling every car they produced and had a long waiting line.

I'd love to own one because of the whole full-power-from-stop thing. The 0-60 on those things is insane.

You can get similar performance out of a 335i ... stock. They're not in the 3/4 second range. Unless you get a tesla S performance then you are in the 3.9 range.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

You can get similar performance out of a 335i ... stock. They're not in the 3/4 second range. Unless you get a tesla S performance then you are in the 3.9 range.

What. The internet tells me the 0-60 on a 335i is officially 5.3 as said by BMW, while a Tesla D can do 0-60 in 3.2 seconds.

That's mid tier Tesla S at 5.4 seconds. The top tier Tesla S AWD gets 3.2 seconds while the RWD gets 4.2.

 

[BoberFett]

Stock price, LOL. Great indicator. How's everyone's Enron stock doing these days?

Tesla is still losing money hand over fist. Will they turn it around? Maybe. Hard to say.

But I can't exactly call a company successful when it's a pet project run by a billionaire who doesn't seem to care about losses. When a rich guy puts his wife to work running an "interior design company" to keep her busy, I wouldn't say she's successful when the only home she designs is her own, to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.

Let me know when Tesla isn't a niche product and is actually profitable. When electric turns the corner, established players will eat Tesla's lunch. Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda; they'll flood the market with electric cars as soon as they're actually a viable option.

 

[norseamd]

Stock price, LOL. Great indicator. How's everyone's Enron stock doing these days? Tesla is still losing money hand over fist. Will they turn it around? Maybe. Hard to say. But I can't exactly call a company successful when it's a pet project run by a billionaire who doesn't seem to care about losses. When a rich guy puts his wife to work running an "interior design company" to keep her busy, I wouldn't say she's successful when the only home she designs is her own, to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. Let me know when Tesla isn't a niche product and is actually profitable. When electric turns the corner, established players will eat Tesla's lunch. Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda; they'll flood the market with electric cars as soon as they're actually a viable option.

The psychology of your turn from liberal to conservative would make an epic story for all of civilization.

 

[z1ggy]

More /facepalm

This was my reaction. Thank the lord Vdub isn't an engineer, or anybody in charge of furthering the advancement of the human race.

Cue the herrrrrrrr da derrrrr EVs will never get good enough range and the derpaderr they are just too expensiveeeeee!

Just 100 years ago, we barely even drove such things as automobiles. In 100 years from now, we will have an exponentially greater amount of technology than we do now.
~~~

As far as Tesla as a company, I think they can stick around for as long as Musk is willing to toss his money around. He's the type of guy who seems to be willing to lose 10's of millions of his own dollars, just for a chance at making the world a better place for people. Right now they make a niche product for upper class folks, but there's no reason a smart guy like him couldn't end up making more competitively priced cars in the future once EV's become main stream. Of course that might not happen while he's alive given the huge fight big oil will put up..

 

[Wreckem]

Stock price, LOL. Great indicator. How's everyone's Enron stock doing these days?

Tesla is still losing money hand over fist. Will they turn it around? Maybe. Hard to say.

But I can't exactly call a company successful when it's a pet project run by a billionaire who doesn't seem to care about losses. When a rich guy puts his wife to work running an "interior design company" to keep her busy, I wouldn't say she's successful when the only home she designs is her own, to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.

Let me know when Tesla isn't a niche product and is actually profitable. When electric turns the corner, established players will eat Tesla's lunch. Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda; they'll flood the market with electric cars as soon as they're actually a viable option.

Except Tesla will have the market cornered on batteries. By 2020 Tesla and Panasonic will be producing more batteries at their US plant, than was produced in the entirety of the world last year. Batteries are something Ford, GM, et al can't just magically start producing in mass quantities. Only Tesla will have the capacity to crank out large quantities of EVs. If Tesla takes off with the Model 3, it will take a long time for any established player to catch up because they will not have an adequate supply of batteries to power their EVs. The reality is, Tesla has set itself up to be the worlds largest battery supplier for EVs, as well as electronic devices.

 

[Wreckem]

This was my reaction. Thank the lord Vdub isn't an engineer, or anybody in charge of furthering the advancement of the human race.

Cue the herrrrrrrr da derrrrr EVs will never get good enough range and the derpaderr they are just too expensiveeeeee!

Just 100 years ago, we barely even drove such things as automobiles. In 100 years from now, we will have an exponentially greater amount of technology than we do now.
~~~

As far as Tesla as a company, I think they can stick around for as long as Musk is willing to toss his money around. He's the type of guy who seems to be willing to lose 10's of millions of his own dollars, just for a chance at making the world a better place for people. Right now they make a niche product for upper class folks, but there's no reason a smart guy like him couldn't end up making more competitively priced cars in the future once EV's become main stream. Of course that might not happen while he's alive given the huge fight big oil will put up..

Tesla and Panasonic will be able to produce enough batteries for 500,000 ev's by 2020. If the Model III is launched for ~$35k, they will do quite well in Musks lifetime.

 

[BoberFett]

The psychology of your turn from liberal to conservative would make an epic story for all of civilization.

Nothing you just said makes any sense whatsoever.

 

[BoberFett]

Except Tesla will have the market cornered on batteries. By 2020 Tesla and Panasonic will be producing more batteries at their US plant, than was produced in the entirety of the world last year. Batteries are something Ford, GM, et al can't just magically start producing in mass quantities. Only Tesla will have the capacity to crank out large quantities of EVs. If Tesla takes off with the Model 3, it will take a long time for any established player to catch up because they will not have an adequate supply of batteries to power their EVs. The reality is, Tesla has set itself up to be the worlds largest battery supplier for EVs, as well as electronic devices.

Corner the battery market? What a ridiculous notion.

Tesla becoming a large battery manufacturer supplying Detroit and Tokyo? I could see that happening.

Becoming the sole automobile supplier to the world? Call me when it happens.

 

[BoberFett]

Tesla and Panasonic will be able to produce enough batteries for 500,000 ev's by 2020. If the Model III is launched for ~$35k, they will do quite well in Musks lifetime.

Oh wow. 500K. Be still my beating heart.

Auto sales in the US alone is 15M/yr.

If there is massive demand for EVs, then they will be manufactured with or without Tesla, and on a scale Tesla could only dream of.

The big auto companies will eat Tesla.

 

[norseamd]

Corner the battery market? What a ridiculous notion. Tesla becoming a large battery manufacturer supplying Detroit and Tokyo? I could see that happening. Becoming the sole automobile supplier to the world? Call me when it happens.

Agree with you on this. And I am sure China could make more batteries than even Tesla ever could especially supplying batteries for cars in emerging countries.

 

[Brovane]

As far as Tesla as a company, I think they can stick around for as long as Musk is willing to toss his money around. He's the type of guy who seems to be willing to lose 10's of millions of his own dollars, just for a chance at making the world a better place for people. Right now they make a niche product for upper class folks, but there's no reason a smart guy like him couldn't end up making more competitively priced cars in the future once EV's become main stream. Of course that might not happen while he's alive given the huge fight big oil will put up..

Musk has put any of his money into Tesla since they went public.

 

[Jaepheth]

On a slightly related note:
Does anyone know if any of the other Electric/Hybrid manufacturers have incorporated any of the released Tesla patents into their designs yet?

 

[Brovane]

Stock price, LOL. Great indicator. How's everyone's Enron stock doing these days?

Tesla is still losing money hand over fist. Will they turn it around? Maybe. Hard to say.

But I can't exactly call a company successful when it's a pet project run by a billionaire who doesn't seem to care about losses. When a rich guy puts his wife to work running an "interior design company" to keep her busy, I wouldn't say she's successful when the only home she designs is her own, to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.

I guess you put Amazon in the same category? What is your definition of losing money hand over fist?

 

[OutHouse]

I see several Model S daily here in Denver.

yes i see a few in Boulder.

 

[Wreckem]

Oh wow. 500K. Be still my beating heart.

Auto sales in the US alone is 15M/yr.

If there is massive demand for EVs, then they will be manufactured with or without Tesla, and on a scale Tesla could only dream of.

The big auto companies will eat Tesla.

You don't seem to grasp the fact that Tesla will be producing more batteries at a single plant in 2020, than the worlds entire battery supply produced in 2013.That takes capital investment and time. Tesla has a head start. They and Panasonic are already doing what no one else ever dreamed of doing(the GigaFactory). Tesla and Panasonic will be well positioned with the battery tech and R&D to stay ahead of other competitors. Right now no one other than Nissan is really putting much R&D into EV. So it will take them years to catch up to Tesla in terms of battery production and actual EV R&D. You can bash Tesla all you want but they are they company spurring change and driving down costs that will eventually get the bigger players involved. Without Tesla there would NEVER be large market for EVs. Tesla will be just fine.

You also forget, Tesla is in the luxury car business which is about 1.5million units in the US. They will NEVER be in a mainstream auto company. They will leave that up to their partners. They will always be in the luxury car market. Their $35-40k car will be a luxury compact car. So when you talk about 500,000 evs, thats a large number when it is 500,000 LUXURY EVs. That would be a third of luxury sales.

Telsa is doing just fine and will continue to do well. More importantly they are spurring change inside and outside of the auto industry thanks to their battery tech and the R&D they are funneling into battery technology.

 

[Brovane]

Corner the battery market? What a ridiculous notion.

Tesla becoming a large battery manufacturer supplying Detroit and Tokyo? I could see that happening.

Becoming the sole automobile supplier to the world? Call me when it happens.

Just some numbers on the scale of batteries that Tesla plans to produce at its Giga Factory. Current world wide Lithium battery production was 4.4 Gigawatt-Hours. The single Tesla GigaFactory is scheduled to produce 35 Gigawatt-Hours by 2020 and current forecasts show world wide production capacity at 49 Gigawatt-Hours by 2020. Tesla/Panasonic will have a large share of the world wide battery production capacity.

 

[Printer Bandit]

where did tesla get all their smarts from?

 

[BoberFett]

I guess you put Amazon in the same category? What is your definition of losing money hand over fist?

Using GAAP to determine profitability rather than whatever smoke and mirrors you want to use to put your company in a positive light.

 

[natto fire]

I vote it the dumbest thread in AT history.

OP you've won.

I'm pretty sure Adlep's Rossi thread tops this one, if not for it's longevity. At least both threads will live on and as time continues it's inexorable march forward, we will see who should eat crow. Of course, this being AT, those on the wrong side of the debate will just continue with one fallacy after another.

Stock price, LOL. Great indicator. How's everyone's Enron stock doing these days?

Tesla is still losing money hand over fist. Will they turn it around? Maybe. Hard to say.

But I can't exactly call a company successful when it's a pet project run by a billionaire who doesn't seem to care about losses. When a rich guy puts his wife to work running an "interior design company" to keep her busy, I wouldn't say she's successful when the only home she designs is her own, to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.

Let me know when Tesla isn't a niche product and is actually profitable. When electric turns the corner, established players will eat Tesla's lunch. Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda; they'll flood the market with electric cars as soon as they're actually a viable option.

Your post definitely has sound logic, but the bolded about the big players could have some leeway. The established norm can sometimes get tunnel vision, like when the big three were pumping out shoddy SUVs, when the market was just wanting more reliable vehicles in general. Yeah, they have come around now (and even made the imports broaden their lineup), but are still shaking the unreliable stigma. Tesla is still in "hail mary" territory in my opinion, but I am rooting for them in a big way. Electric cars I am REALLY rooting for, because the motor side is already well established, it is just a matter of storing all that energy. Anyone with even a modicum of engineering smarts can see the advantage of an electric motor that spins in a perfect circle, when compared to the awkward concentric action of an otto cycle internal combustion one.

As with any intelligible discussion with electric vehicles, it comes down to storing the energy, but this thread is supposed to be about Tesla the company. Like I said, I am pulling for them, but I cannot refute the logic of your post.