Tesla is not dead yet!!!

[Joe1987]

So even better for oil if it's mostly from Canada and domestic production. Did you understand the point?

It makes no strategic sense to kick off an energy source for cars that comes from our close ally and neighbor and domestic production and switch to one that's almost completely controlled by a hostile nation.

Being dependant on the Saudis should have taught us the folly in that policy.

When did Wyoming become a hostile nation?

Sigh...

 

[desura]

The thing to keep in mind with a hybrid like the prius is that it isn't actually more complex. An ICE is a very complex contraption. An electric motor is comparatively simple. By having an electric motor assume many of the duties of the ICE, it spares it wear and tear, so in theory should actually be more reliable than a comparable Corolla.

As for Canadian oil, it's a global market. Money spent on gasoline in the USA gets into Saudi hands one way or another, be it from direct sales (since most Saudi oil is light) or from higher prices from demand.

And don't forget climate change. It matters.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Hey guise... apparently cars are CENTURIES years old... Henry Ford must have had a time machine too! Amazing mother fucker!

 

[baydude]

What will prevent Tesla from stopping all the other car companies w/ bigger distribution power from taking over their market share?
Porsche is now in the market. When Toyota, Honda, Ford, etc all combine to enter the market, Tesla will crumble.
http://www.wired.com/2015/09/porsche-takes-aim-tesla-stunning-electric-concept/

 

[PricklyPete]

You're worried about a concept that is being compared to a production car that has been around for several years?

Maybe you haven't been keeping up, but Ford, Nissan, Toyota, Fiat, Mini, etc. have all offered electric cars recently. Porsche and Audi entering doesn't suddenly change the game.

Tesla has a huge head start and has several marketing advantages (not least of which is their supercharger network).

While the stock may be overvalued, I don't see any end in sight for funding as long as Tesla maintains their current track record.

Nice job bumping a thread from over a year and a half ago.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

I don't get why some people hate an American start up car company so much.

 

[Stopsignhank]

I used to like Tesla until I looked into solar for my house. Then I found out how Solar city is ripping people off. (Sorry if you got your solar from solar city but you paid too much.) Made me wonder if he is charging too much for the cars just like he is charging too much for solar.

 

[Train]

I used to like Tesla until I looked into solar for my house. Then I found out how Solar city is ripping people off. (Sorry if you got your solar from solar city but you paid too much.) Made me wonder if he is charging too much for the cars just like he is charging too much for solar.

3 year wating list for Teslas... no he is not charging too much.

 

[Phoenix86]

edit: replied to old post.

 

[MrDudeMan]

I used to like Tesla until I looked into solar for my house. Then I found out how Solar city is ripping people off. (Sorry if you got your solar from solar city but you paid too much.) Made me wonder if he is charging too much for the cars just like he is charging too much for solar.

Solar City quoted my house and it was very comparable to every other quote. I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but you're going to have a hard time convincing me that paying $0 for solar panels that reduce my current rate is a bad deal. They have to make money and I'm fine with that as long as my bills get lower as well.

 

[Stopsignhank]

3 year wating list for Teslas... no he is not charging too much.

People are all excited about the batteries too. Does not make it a smart decision.

 

[Stopsignhank]

Solar City quoted my house and it was very comparable to every other quote. I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but you're going to have a hard time convincing me that paying $0 for solar panels that reduce my current rate is a bad deal. They have to make money and I'm fine with that as long as my bills get lower as well.

Go to http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum.php Do you want to save $20 per month or $120 per month. FYI the guy that sits next to me went with Solarcity and he paid 10K more than me for a smaller system.

 

[disappoint]

I thought this thread would be a Nicola Tesla sighting.

"I saw Elvis! He's still alive!"

"I saw bigfoot!"

"Oh yeah? Well I saw Nicola Tesla!"

"What the..."

 

[LegendKiller]

Solar City quoted my house and it was very comparable to every other quote. I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but you're going to have a hard time convincing me that paying $0 for solar panels that reduce my current rate is a bad deal. They have to make money and I'm fine with that as long as my bills get lower as well.

Are you leasing or buying? They are making money, hand over fist, by leasing systems. The tax-equity makes insane returns. They reap the depreciation, government incentive, and finance your lease at uber-low interest rates while charging you a far higher interest rate imbedded into the lease stream.

Meanwhile they attach a lease stream to the home and hold the new homeowner hostage to that lease stream. Some may not want it, so it hurts your liquidity.

 

[Sabrewings]

Are you leasing or buying? They are making money, hand over fist, by leasing systems. The tax-equity makes insane returns. They reap the depreciation, government incentive, and finance your lease at uber-low interest rates while charging you a far higher interest rate imbedded into the lease stream.

Meanwhile they attach a lease stream to the home and hold the new homeowner hostage to that lease stream. Some may not want it, so it hurts your liquidity.

That's not how it works for my coworker who has their system. They installed it for free, and he just pays them for his electricity. If he overproduces during the day and doesn't use that much at night, he gets money back from his utility company. If his roof needs work, they come and move panels out of the way for free. And, when he goes to sell his house, the new home owner can be under the same plan or they can buy the whole system outright and roll it into their mortgage, freeing them from Solarcity entirely.

He loves it. I'd have it too if I wasn't surrounded by trees.

 

[Wreckem]

What will prevent Tesla from stopping all the other car companies w/ bigger distribution power from taking over their market share?
Porsche is now in the market. When Toyota, Honda, Ford, etc all combine to enter the market, Tesla will crumble.
http://www.wired.com/2015/09/porsche-takes-aim-tesla-stunning-electric-concept/

Nothing will stop them but Tesla won't care because their batteries will likely be in those products. Car development will ultimately be a nitch market once they are providing to majority of batteries to the world including their competitors in the auto biz. Auto manufacturers will need batteries and the only one that will have capacity and the technology will be Tesla..

 

[Wreckem]

People are all excited about the batteries too. Does not make it a smart decision.

Being an early adopter never makes sense financially.

 

[Stopsignhank]

That's not how it works for my coworker who has their system. They installed it for free, and he just pays them for his electricity. If he overproduces during the day and doesn't use that much at night, he gets money back from his utility company. If his roof needs work, they come and move panels out of the way for free. And, when he goes to sell his house, the new home owner can be under the same plan or they can buy the whole system outright and roll it into their mortgage, freeing them from Solarcity entirely.

He loves it. I'd have it too if I wasn't surrounded by trees.

We need to know all the details, which we can only guess at, but most people are getting screwed over by solar city. For instance you are forgetting the 3% price increase they have in their contracts. "Hey solar rates increase by 5% every year and we will only charge you 3%. You are money ahead." What you have listed there is all of the fluff that Solar city puts in their contracts. You can do better financially.

My coworker loves his solar city system too. But I know that I did not put an extra 10K in Elon's pockets, it is staying in mine.

 

[LegendKiller]

That's not how it works for my coworker who has their system. They installed it for free, and he just pays them for his electricity. If he overproduces during the day and doesn't use that much at night, he gets money back from his utility company. If his roof needs work, they come and move panels out of the way for free. And, when he goes to sell his house, the new home owner can be under the same plan or they can buy the whole system outright and roll it into their mortgage, freeing them from Solarcity entirely.

He loves it. I'd have it too if I wasn't surrounded by trees.

That is exactly how it works if you are leasing the system. Nothing is "free". This is the problem and it is why they are being pressured by Congress. They don't clearly state how much they are making. Sure, they'll move it for free, because they are moving *THEIR* property, that also is imbedded into the "cost" of the system, do you think they want some bonehead roofer moving *THEIR* property? What if the homeowner doesn't want to be under that plan? What if the lease is now included in the DTI/PTI/LTV of the home (which it is from what I understand) since it is not a contingent but a fixed liability with a known payment? What if they can't roll it into the mortgage since it's not considered a 100% improvement (it isn't, in fact, it hurts home values from what I have read). That means for a 20k system you now need to put in more equity, a lot more. You also can't afford as big of a house, since you now have another liability. What if the new person doesn't want it aesthetically?

You don't even realize the benefits they are getting, nor the equity returns they are reaping. It's hiding right under your nose and you don't get it.

I have been offered tax-equity toggle certificates that return 15%. That's *AFTER* the tax-equity is done reaping their profit. It's the scraps.

Think about it. They are selling scraps at 15% return. Scraps. How much are they returning before it becomes the "scraps"?


Think about this.

1. How much does the equivalent panel system cost out of pocket or by a loan

2. How much do you get for federal (or other) incentives?

3. How much is it worth not to have a UCC-1 filed on your house?

4. How much is the resale of the panel worth on the back-end (you own it, you sell it, you get cash out)?

5. Can you finance it with a HEL/HELOC which allows *you* to deduct the interest?

6. How much can you really sell the depreciation for? If they can depreciate 40-50% of the panel up-front (if not more) and reap 20-30% equity return from that depreciation, *PLUS* the government subsidies, they should be able to "buy" that from you for an equivalent deduction to the purchase price, plus a nominal secured financing fee.

You see, they are selling *YOUR* panel's depreciation to somebody who needs to offset revenue with depreciation and then they are stripping *YOUR* incentive away from you *AND* they are charging you an imbedded interest rate in the lease fee while generating power for free with a sub-par system on a 20-year loan and then they are financing that at a very low rate.

A 5-year Solarcity bond yields 4% with 5-year swap rates at 1.57%. That means you are earning 2.43% over swaps, which ain't much for an unrated, illiquid, relatively risky bond backed by an investment structure that heavily benefits other people.

 

[MrDudeMan]

That's not how it works for my coworker who has their system. They installed it for free, and he just pays them for his electricity. If he overproduces during the day and doesn't use that much at night, he gets money back from his utility company. If his roof needs work, they come and move panels out of the way for free. And, when he goes to sell his house, the new home owner can be under the same plan or they can buy the whole system outright and roll it into their mortgage, freeing them from Solarcity entirely.

He loves it. I'd have it too if I wasn't surrounded by trees.

I've got a Solar City contract in my hands that practically negates most of the content in the last few posts. In short, I will pay $0 for the system and less per month than what I can get from the grid for the electricity it produces. I don't give a shit about the rest.

Also, SC systems haven't reduced home values in Colorado. I know several people with a SC system and they had no trouble selling their houses. It didn't seem to add a huge amount of value, but it didn't lower the value either. Personally, I don't care about this angle either as I won't be selling my house any time soon.

 

[MrDudeMan]

...

That's all great I guess, but I still don't care. I get to spend no money and then pay less for my monthly bills. If you want to buy your own panels and deal with all of the steps involved, knock yourself out. I have more than enough cash to buy the entire system, but why? I can keep the cash, invest it somewhere else, and still end up paying less for electricity. They can file for all of the rebates and deductions. My taxes are already immensely complicated, so I don't have the inclination to pile on more tax bullshit. I'll just pay someone else for my electricity bill every month and call it done.

 

[Ferzerp]

3 year wating list for Teslas... no he is not charging too much.

Enjoy making things up much? I ordered one the end of August, and it will be here next week.

 

[bradly1101]

Unpredictable range and slow recharge for long trips, how do I drive from NH to IN non-stop in any foreseeable electric car?

Batteries have a long way to go before replacing internal combustion for the vast majority of consumers.

I forget where I saw it, but if every gas station became a 'battery exchange station,' and all electric cars had universal, easy to exchange batteries (the system I saw installed them from below), you'd never be far from a full charge and you'd only pay for the charging because everyone's exchanging them.

 

[Ferzerp]

That's all great I guess, but I still don't care. I get to spend no money and then pay less for my monthly bills. If you want to buy your own panels and deal with all of the steps involved, knock yourself out. I have more than enough cash to buy the entire system, but why? I can keep the cash, invest it somewhere else, and still end up paying less for electricity. They can file for all of the rebates and deductions. My taxes are already immensely complicated, so I don't have the inclination to pile on more tax bullshit. I'll just pay someone else for my electricity bill every month and call it done.

I've also seen some financing options where you pay $0 down, with the expectation that when you get the 30% tax credit, you use that to pay down 30% of the loan. I'll actually have to look in to this because those credits are expiring next year I believe it is.

 

[DAGTA]

Enjoy making things up much? I ordered one the end of August, and it will be here next week.

He might be referring to the Model X