Tesla is not dead yet!!!

[Insomniator]

Everything gets solved with time, and its not like there were gas stations all over the country 100 years ago. When its ready and worth it, it will happen.

We aren't going to be running cars with dirty combustion engines exhausting pollution into the air forever. Obviously something will change... the tesla is a clear beginning.

 

[Nintendesert]

That to me is a big issue, the USA is in an oil production renaissance. We finally can kick the Saudis off and we want to switch to materials that are still overwhelmingly controlled by an economically hostile nation with a long track record of market manipulation and underhanded business practices.

The US needs to do a hell of a lot more to develop the raw material production before we can commit so much of our automarket to battery.

 

[zoiks]

That to me is a big issue, the USA is in an oil production renaissance. We finally can kick the Saudis off and we want to switch to materials that are still overwhelmingly controlled by an economically hostile nation with a long track record of market manipulation and underhanded business practices.

The US needs to do a hell of a lot more to develop the raw material production before we can commit so much of our automarket to battery.

Keep spewing that rhetoric. That was true before 2005 but now most of the imported oil in the US comes from Canada. Saudi is next but we don't import nearly as much.
I'm more concerned about the manipulative oil companies and lobbyists in the US who do everything in their power to influence Congress and government officials to make sure alternative energy sources do not succeed or become mainstream.

 

[Train]

I don't know, but I have doubts you would know either.

They are in process of fighting for it....but tell me, clearly they did LOTS of work/investment has been made to FIND those deposits.

Why are we looking for resources in Afghanistan?

:biggrin:

You clearly are clueless about Afghanistan.

You've literally been proven wrong at every turn in this thread.

 

[akahoovy]

Sure, unfortunately you fail you realize that 90% of America lives in Suburban areas and travel long distances (10000-20000 miles a year).

City dwellers = VERY small market share....most use public transportation anyways.

WTF are you on? 20,000 miles a year, if that portion is only driving to work, is 55 miles a day, every day.

The best powertrain warranties are 10 years/100,000 miles, so what kind of long term do you think you're looking for?

 

[Fritzo]

I've been in one and even drove it.

Hybrid tech is too complex, unproven and you CANNOT say it's reliable.

Out of how many priuses sold 10+ years ago are still on the road?

How many just bought a new car cause the cost of battery swap after 7-10 years is more than the car is worth?

Batteries will NEVER have the life of a combustion engine, sorry.

Since I work on cars, extra complexity creates less space, more parts (that can break)

With more parts/system = lesser reliability. There is no going around that.....

Of course many of those points don't apply to full electric.

"Refuting early powertrain-complexity and battery-life scares, more than 97 percent of the Priuses produced are still on the road. Used battery packs are available from salvage yards for around $500."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-toyota-prius-v-first-drive-review

You seem to have this preconceived notion about hybrid and electric cars that isn't based on any facts. I doubt anyone here is going to change your mind.

 

[Jaepheth]

I still think Electric cars will be a failure just like they were almost 2 centuries ago....and again a century ago.....

But I hope I'm wrong....

We all recall James Madison's failed attempt at pushing an electric vehicle initiative through congress. No need to keep rubbing it in.

But can you really blame them? I mean, they did have The War of 1812 going on.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Sure, unfortunately you fail you realize that 90% of America lives in Suburban areas and travel long distances (10000-20000 miles a year).

City dwellers = VERY small market share....most use public transportation anyways.

Troll, retard or retarded troll? Which one are you?

Seriously, stop posting in this thread, you're so friggin ignorant on 99% of what you post in this forum.

 

[sandorski]

True fact: Every Hybrid and Electric vehicle user will die!

You might reply with, "Correlation does not equal causation!", but seriously folks, you can't argue with the FACTS!

 

[PricklyPete]

Man...I hope I can hold off getting a second vehicle for our family long enough to wait for the 3rd generation Tesla cars. I love what they are doing at that company.

 

[JeepinEd]

Consumer Reports (and JD Ppwer) get contributions from manufactures and there is clear conflict of interest.

It's like Government telling you they are honest.

I also seen how their studies are done and even been part of their study. Based on what they asked me, their study is completely flawed.

I also don't give a crap about first year or even 3 years of reliability when the car is under warranty.

I care about 5-10 years down the line and NOBODY is doing any of those studies.

I had a Gen 1 Prius, that I traded in at 230K miles. No problems what so ever. I now own a Gen II Prius with 250K miles and aside from normal maintenance, I've had no issues what so ever. Just changed my front brakes for the first time at 210K miles.

 

[Joe1987]

Vdubchaos, I need some of what you're smoking.

Massive lithium deposit in the US:

http://www.ncbr.com/article/20130517/EDITION/130519933

The best-case scenario is that the entire 2,000-square-mile Rock Springs Uplift could contain up to 18 million tons of lithium: equivalent to about 720 years of current global lithium production. The discovery could have a major impact on the global market, transforming the United States from a significant lithium importer to an independent lithium producer.

Conveniently close to the Northern Nevada site proposed for the battery production facility.

And electric cars are significantly LESS complex than ICE's.

Consumer Reports accepts no money from manufacturers, retailers, etc. I've been included in their surveys as well, they're not rocket science, but they're not massively flawed either.

Finding Luddites on tech related forums always confuses the hell out of me.

 

[Thebobo]

Sure, unfortunately you fail you realize that 90% of America lives in Suburban areas and travel long distances (10000-20000 miles a year).

City dwellers = VERY small market share....most use public transportation anyways.

Would love to see some links backing up those statements. Anyway Consumer reports did an article about a study. Check it out.

When it comes to electric cars, most people are worried about their limited range and potential repair costs. Instead, they should be concerned about where to plug the cars in. That’s the conclusion of a new study by Consumers Union and the Union of Concerned Scientists, which surveyed 914 adults who own cars in a nationally representative telephone sample.

Of those drivers, 42 percent fit within all the parameters necessary to use a plug-in hybrid vehicle for their transportation needs with few, if any, changes in behavior. Among that group, 60 percent met the criteria to make a pure battery-electric car practical for them.

Read on

 

[theeedude]

I am thinking of shorting TSLA. Musk is good, and I think a company has a bright future, but there is a lot of euphoria in the stock now. I remember when there was same buzz around Toyota Prius, how Toyota was so far ahead and everyone else was standing still. Now everyone and their mother is making hybrids. I think if Tesla makes it clear that full electric is the future, everyone and their mother is going to be making electric cars.

 

[Red Storm]

Man...I hope I can hold off getting a second vehicle for our family long enough to wait for the 3rd generation Tesla cars. I love what they are doing at that company.

Same.

 

[Train]

I am thinking of shorting TSLA. Musk is good, and I think a company has a bright future, but there is a lot of euphoria in the stock now. I remember when there was same buzz around Toyota Prius, how Toyota was so far ahead and everyone else was standing still. Now everyone and their mother is making hybrids. I think if Tesla makes it clear that full electric is the future, everyone and their mother is going to be making electric cars.

And guess where the batteries are gonna be made?

The article in the OP says Tesla Motors only expects to use 30% of the batteries produced there.

In 2020 when all of the big three are pumping out all electric mass consumer market cars, guess who will be selling them batteries? And probably the 3rd gen charging circuitry to go with it.

 

[cheezy321]

I am thinking of shorting TSLA. Musk is good, and I think a company has a bright future, but there is a lot of euphoria in the stock now. I remember when there was same buzz around Toyota Prius, how Toyota was so far ahead and everyone else was standing still. Now everyone and their mother is making hybrids. I think if Tesla makes it clear that full electric is the future, everyone and their mother is going to be making electric cars.

The Prius was first made in 1997. It is far and away the most dominant hybrid on the market. Their first mover advantage is huge and still relevant ~17 years later. I would expect the same of Tesla. That isn't to say their stock is overpriced right now, but they are doing something that nobody else in the market is.

 

[MrSquished]

Sure, unfortunately you fail you realize that 90% of America lives in Suburban areas and travel long distances (10000-20000 miles a year).

City dwellers = VERY small market share....most use public transportation anyways.

doesn't matter what suburban drivers drive in a year, it's what they may drive in a day. i mean how can you even make a statement so asinine? think before you type

way more people live in urban areas over rural

http://www.census.gov/geo/reference/ua/urban-rural-2010.html

 

[DesiPower]

Interesting, they are considering Texas, the state tat would allow them to sell their cars...

 

[Train]

Interesting, they are considering Texas, the state tat would allow them to sell their cars...

$5 billion dollar plant, plus all the jobs it would bring, might sway a lot of TX reps.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Unpredictable range and slow recharge for long trips, how do I drive from NH to IN non-stop in any foreseeable electric car?

Batteries have a long way to go before replacing internal combustion for the vast majority of consumers.

You buy a Tesla, and for the long trips, rent a car.

 

[akahoovy]

You buy a Tesla, and for the long trips, rent a car.

Holy crap, someone gets it.

 

[Thebobo]

Consumer Reports (and JD Ppwer) get contributions from manufactures and there is clear conflict of interest.

Who told you this? Have a link? I don't know about JD powers but Consumer Reports does NOT get contributions from manufactures.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Umm. Yeah uh, when did used car become synonymous for 10+ year old clunker? You can buy a late model Tesla. I've seen used ones on the market. They are scarce because there is not enough volume. That will likely change if Tesla comes out with their $35k electric car in 2017 like they plan.

The Tesla has an 8 year unlimited mile warranty on its 85kwh battery. After 8 years if you needed to you could buy a battery for $12k. How long the battery lasts depends on how many cycles. Life and cost of replacement will ONLY improve as time goes on.

And that's my point. 12k for a battery, most people wont be able to justify that when buying a used car. All the cars I've owned were over 10 years old. They run just as fine, but an electric would need a new battery.

So they need to come up with a battery tech that will last longer than the car or is cheaper to produce. Though maybe if electric cars become more common that will fix itself. More mass production of batteries should mean it will be cheaper. Also the battery does not just outright die so a 10 year old battery might still be good enough for a town car, and just not good for long distance driving. Depends how they degrade.

That said, if I did find a used electric car and the battery was decent I'd probably buy in a heartbeat. The thought of never having to get raped at the pump would bring joy. But it's hard enough finding a NEW one, let alone used. 10 years ago they were even more rare.

 

[Nintendesert]

Keep spewing that rhetoric. That was true before 2005 but now most of the imported oil in the US comes from Canada. Saudi is next but we don't import nearly as much.
I'm more concerned about the manipulative oil companies and lobbyists in the US who do everything in their power to influence Congress and government officials to make sure alternative energy sources do not succeed or become mainstream.

So even better for oil if it's mostly from Canada and domestic production. Did you understand the point?

It makes no strategic sense to kick off an energy source for cars that comes from our close ally and neighbor and domestic production and switch to one that's almost completely controlled by a hostile nation.

Being dependant on the Saudis should have taught us the folly in that policy.