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Tesla Cybertruck

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WelshBloke said:
Related topic. The UK gov has said that they want to ban the sale of petrol/diesel vehicles by 2035.

What sort of power source is going to work for that?
I cant see how EVs can work for everyone. How do you charge one if you only have on street parking?
All I can see here is hydrogen making a bit of an inroads. It can use the same fueling infrastructure as regular ICE vehicles and you can get your 400 mile range in a 5 minute fuel stop.
What's the great advantage of batteries over fuel cells?
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A standard for quick-change battery modules at petrol stations would be doable.
 
Ichinisan said:
A standard for quick-change battery modules at petrol stations would be doable.
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Considering how the batteries are integrated into the car and cooling systems, I just don't see that happening. Force a standard charging standard and install more chargers in common locations where people may park for a while.
 
Brainonska511 said:
We need to think about how we set up our towns and cities to reduce reliance on personal automobiles. And we need to think about where to place charging infrastructure. You don't need individual EV "gas stations" - look into setting stuff up in places where you already have parking and people spending decent amounts of time: office parking lots, grocery store lots, etc...
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I just cant see everyone (and remember that the idea is to get everyone off petrol/diesel) plugging in on the street. There'll be cables running everywhere for a start.


Ichinisan said:
A standard for quick-change battery modules at petrol stations would be doable.
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I was thinking about this as I was in a queue for petrol last week. It takes a few minutes to fill an ICE car and we still get queues in busy petrol stations, even if we get EV car charging a lot quicker it's going to be hell if every car there takes 20 minutes to fuel! 3 cars in line in front of you? That's a lovely hours wait just to get to the plug!




All that gets avoided with hydrogen. You still get no emissions from the car and they have the advantage of easy fueling and using the same infrastructure as we use already.
 
WelshBloke said:
I just cant see everyone (and remember that the idea is to get everyone off petrol/diesel) plugging in on the street. There'll be cables running everywhere for a start.
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That's why we shouldn't just put charging stuff on streets. If you put it where there are already parking lots, it should be fine. People aren't charging their cars all the time. Plus, we should be looking to move people out of their personal autos more, further driving down individual car trips and charging needs.

As for hydrogen, much of it comes from fossil fuels at the moment. Not sure that would be the best thing to switch to.
 
Brainonska511 said:
That's why we shouldn't just put charging stuff on streets. If you put it where there are already parking lots, it should be fine. People aren't charging their cars all the time. Plus, we should be looking to move people out of their personal autos more, further driving down individual car trips and charging needs.

As for hydrogen, much of it comes from fossil fuels at the moment. Not sure that would be the best thing to switch to.
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You are getting way to theoretical. We could completely eliminate the need for all of this if we burned down all cities, offices and started all over. The fact is that not everyone lives in the city, people park on streets, jobs are not always a few blocks away and people will need personal transportation. We currently have a very flexible transportation structure that allows nearly any income level mobility.
 
Brainonska511 said:
That's why we shouldn't just put charging stuff on streets. If you put it where there are already parking lots, it should be fine. People aren't charging their cars all the time. Plus, we should be looking to move people out of their personal autos more, further driving down individual car trips and charging needs.
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In Europe on street parking in cities is the norm.


Brainonska511 said:
As for hydrogen, much of it comes from fossil fuels at the moment. Not sure that would be the best thing to switch to.
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That's the same as electric vehicles. Making batteries is pretty dirty. Hydrogen is as clean as your primary electricity generation.
 
KentState said:
You are getting way to theoretical. We could completely eliminate the need for all of this if we burned down all cities, offices and started all over. The fact is that not everyone lives in the city, people park on streets, jobs are not always a few blocks away and people will need personal transportation. We currently have a very flexible transportation structure that allows nearly any income level mobility.
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It's not theoretical; you're just stuck in the unimaginative windshield perspective. We didn't build up our current situation overnight, and we could certainly work to undo it with proper zoning and time. Plus, there are a lot of people who do live in cities, but have to rely on cars because we've made choices that make cities car-friendly and car necessary. We're not going to eliminate all cars, but since most car trips are under 10 miles, maybe it's time to reevaluate how we get around for most of them, particularly in urban and suburban areas.
 
Brainonska511 said:
It's not theoretical; you're just stuck in the unimaginative windshield perspective. We didn't build up our current situation overnight, and we could certainly work to undo it with proper zoning and time. Plus, there are a lot of people who do live in cities, but have to rely on cars because we've made choices that make cities car-friendly and car necessary. We're not going to eliminate all cars, but since most car trips are under 10 miles, maybe it's time to reevaluate how we get around for most of them, particularly in urban and suburban areas.
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None of that matters though. However many cars there are they need to be powered and the question is whats the best way to do that. Even with lots of public transport you still have an issue of power.
Now we could use electric and batteries for this but that's a lot of batteries and a lot of stress on the local power grid. I'm just wondering if hydrogen is a more workable solution and if not why.
 
Brainonska511 said:
It's not theoretical; you're just stuck in the unimaginative windshield perspective. We didn't build up our current situation overnight, and we could certainly work to undo it with proper zoning and time. Plus, there are a lot of people who do live in cities, but have to rely on cars because we've made choices that make cities car-friendly and car necessary. We're not going to eliminate all cars, but since most car trips are under 10 miles, maybe it's time to reevaluate how we get around for most of them, particularly in urban and suburban areas.
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If anyone is stuck, it's you on this reimagined world without a thought of how to get there. Instead of actually thinking about a plan, you stomp your feet and insult others when they don't feel you consider realities. Statements like, "reevaluate how get around" are shallow and meaningless. People continually reevaluate their situation and if it makes sense to drive a hour to work or move closer. Guess what, they rarely do. If it were that easy to reshuffle the deck then it would be happening.
 
WelshBloke said:
None of that matters though. However many cars there are they need to be powered and the question is whats the best way to do that. Even with lots of public transport you still have an issue of power.
Now we could use electric and batteries for this but that's a lot of batteries and a lot of stress on the local power grid. I'm just wondering if hydrogen is a more workable solution and if not why.
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Hydrogen has some of the same problems electric charging would have, like where do you build filling stations? But then it's compounded by the logistics of hydrogen storage, inability to charge at home, hydrogen cannot be transported by pipeline, and much of it comes out of the ground as a byproduct of the oil and gas we're extracting for our cars and other oil-based enterprises.

WRT to public transit - a lot of it has centralized storage, which provides an opportunity to institute centralized charging, at least for that infrastructure.
KentState said:
If anyone is stuck, it's you on this reimagined world without a thought of how to get there. Instead of actually thinking about a plan, you stomp your feet and insult others when they don't feel you consider realities. Statements like, "reevaluate how get around" are shallow and meaningless. People continually reevaluate their situation and if it makes sense to drive a hour to work or move closer. Guess what, they rarely do. If it were that easy to reshuffle the deck then it would be happening.
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I do consider the realities and fully recognize that giving up a personal auto isn't for everyone. I think you give people too much credit for "re-evaluating" their situations and fail to recognize the government policies that drove us to our current situation and keep us trapped here. That's all I'm going to say on this topic. I apologize for driving the thread off topic, which should instead be focused on the upcoming hideous and gigantic Cybertruck.
 
Brainonska511 said:
Hydrogen has some of the same problems electric charging would have, like where do you build filling stations? But then it's compounded by the logistics of hydrogen storage, inability to charge at home, hydrogen cannot be transported by pipeline, and much of it comes out of the ground as a byproduct of the oil and gas we're extracting for our cars and other oil-based enterprises.
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You'd just repurpose existing petrol/diesel filling stations!

Is hydrogen storage that big of a problem? We already store huge tanks of petrol and diesel under filling stations.

I cant charge my ICE car at home either, but thsts not a problem because it gets 400 miles out of a tank, theres a filling station 5 minutes away and when I get there it takes me 5 minutes to fill up. All that would be the same with hydrogen.

We dont generally (at least round here anyway) deliver petrol to filling stations by pipe, we use delivery tankers. That would be the same with hydrogen.

Water splitting to make hydrogen is about 70% efficient.
 
WelshBloke said:
Is hydrogen storage that big of a problem? We already store huge tanks of petrol and diesel under filling stations.
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Hydrogen can effuse through many materials. You'd likely need to install new tanks in order to properly store it; it also needs to be stored under high pressure. Then there is the issue of transferring it to vehicles - you'd want air-tight transfer lines. Perhaps it's not impossible, but it isn't as straightforward as it initially may seem.

Some of the links here may provide some more info on the subject: https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/pros-and-cons-of-hydrogen-energy.htm

WelshBloke said:
We dont generally (at least round here anyway) deliver petrol to filling stations by pipe, we use delivery tankers. That would be the same with hydrogen.
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Yeah, we don't deliver by pipeline to gas stations, but it may move through a pipeline from the refinery to a centralized storage location, where it is then transferred to a truck for final delivery.
 
WelshBloke said:
In Europe on street parking in cities is the norm.



That's the same as electric vehicles. Making batteries is pretty dirty. Hydrogen is as clean as your primary electricity generation.
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Put chargers on the street. Put chargers in parking garages. Build all new houses with solar roof and have 240V standard on every home garage and every new building construction.

You should charge at home. If not at home, then at work or some public charging station. Really, anywhere there is electricity, you have the potential to charge. I just think lot can be done with solar, batteries, and upgrading our home charging infrastructure. If I was young kid today, I would look to becoming an electrician. That field is going to explode and they're going to make so much money just retrofitting existing homes for electric car charging.

The future is batteries. I'm certain of that. It's going to completely revolutionize the entire power utility industry and the electric grid. Solar combined with batteries are going to change the power generation and energy services market transactions. You guys can't see it yet, but I can see the future where Tesla becomes common place in homes by controlling both electric cars and home power through solar and batteries. The energy your house generates could be bought and sold by Tesla and the energy services market transaction could become the currency itself. It's kind of crazy thinking about it, but I see it becoming a reality in my lifetime.

Hydrogen is dead technology. If you believe in hydrogen, invest in Toyota as that's what they're betting their future on. Me, I own three Toyota cars but think they're completely wrong in thinking hydrogen is the future. I'm with Tesla. All my future cars will be Tesla. My home will be powered by Tesla Solarglass and Tesla Powerwall. I believe in Tesla vision. You might not see it now but decade from now, it's going to be crystal clear. Batteries are the future and Tesla is all in on batteries. Tune in for Tesla Battery Investors Day sometime in April when Tesla will explain their battery plan.
 
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ponyo said:
Put chargers on the street.
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This doesn't work. You end up with cables going to every car. It's a trip and fire hazard. Plus people are going to unplug your car and get you to pay for charging theirs.

I honestly csnt see where battery has an advantage over hydrogen.
Well maybe if you live out in the middle of nowhere and own a massive solar or wind farm, but for the other part of the population hydrogen seems to solve all the problems of EVs.
 
WelshBloke said:
This doesn't work. You end up with cables going to every car. It's a trip and fire hazard. Plus people are going to unplug your car and get you to pay for charging theirs.

I honestly csnt see where battery has an advantage over hydrogen.
Well maybe if you live out in the middle of nowhere and own a massive solar or wind farm, but for the other part of the population hydrogen seems to solve all the problems of EVs.
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The chargers reset when unplugged, so there's really no concern about someone else charging at my expense.
 
WelshBloke said:
There’s a concern about going out in the morning and finding out that someone unplugged your car to charge theirs and you have no juice!
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Your car can't be unplugged while charging. The vehicle locks the connecter preventing removal until you're ready.
 
From an engineering standpoint I kinda like the design, it's simpler to build, you don't need any special metal bending molds to make awkward rounded shapes. If I actually wanted to build my own vehicle I would be going towards something like this just because it's simpler. Though you can still have rounded edges on 1 plane, that's not too hard to do. The part I don't like about this truck is the bed, it feels like there would not be much room, but they don't really have much pictures of it. IMO If it does not have an 8x4 bed it's not a real truck. 😛 I have to laugh at most trucks now with the tiny boxes, like what is even the point? If you need to sit 6 people then you probably don't want a truck. Longbox trucks with single cab are actually getting very hard to find now and you pay a premium.
 
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