The only thing I contend in your comment is the suffering all the way. if she has activity you dont know for sure if she is suffering.
I have mixed feelings about this issue but personally I would never want in the vegetative state that she has been under for 15 years. It also sounds like she has very little capacity to function and minimal brain activity. She is basically being kept alive (alive in the most basic of sense since I really cannot call that living) by tubes. If there is any hope of a recovery, I would say keep her alive but in her case, I seriously doubt it. I am glad I am not in their position. It sounds like a difficult decision but ultimately, I feel that it is a decision best left to her, her husband, her doctors and their conscience. The state should stay out of this private matter. This is the posterchild for getting a living will with clear directives on the types of treatments and a designee who is in charge of making medical decisions. Anyway, it doesn't sound like this case will be resolved but I hope it can push other people into making end of life decisions. With people growing older and advances in medicine, I think more of these types of cases will arise, unfortunately,
All P&Ners, now is the time to write down that you'd like to be taken off life support if you're a vegetable for 15 years. Make sure you do this with a lawyer so it's legitimate, otherwise Bush & Rip will keep you alive forever. Soon only the rich will be allowed to die.
FROM DRUDGEREPORT (Pretty reliable):
**Exclusive Fri Mar 18 2005 00:50:07 ET** The Chairman of the Health, Education, Labor, and Pension (HELP) Committee, Mike Enzi (R-Wyoming) has requested Terri Schiavo to testify before his congressional committee, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned. In so doing it triggers legal or statutory protections for the witness, among those protections is that nothing can be done to cause harm or death to this individual.
Members of Congress went to the U.S. Attorney in DC to ask for a temporary restraining order to be issued by a judge, which protects Terri Schiavo from having her life support, including her feeding and hydration tubes, removed... Developing...
Looks like she won't be coming off it. I wish they'd just let her die, it's been 15 years for christs sake, she isn't coming back.
**Exclusive Fri Mar 18 2005 00:50:07 ET** The Chairman of the Health, Education, Labor, and Pension (HELP) Committee, Mike Enzi (R-Wyoming) has requested Terri Schiavo to testify before his congressional committee, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned. In so doing it triggers legal or statutory protections for the witness, among those protections is that nothing can be done to cause harm or death to this individual.
Members of Congress went to the U.S. Attorney in DC to ask for a temporary restraining order to be issued by a judge, which protects Terri Schiavo from having her life support, including her feeding and hydration tubes, removed... Developing...
Looks like she won't be coming off it. I wish they'd just let her die, it's been 15 years for christs sake, she isn't coming back.
Front Page News Today now
Congress has come to a halt over this case, they're even pre-empting the all "Important" Baseball hearings:
3-18-2005 House Panel Seeks to Keep Schiavo Alive
WASHINGTON - Working against the clock, House lawmakers tried to prevent doctors in Florida from removing the feeding tube Friday from a severely brain-damaged woman.
In a two-pronged approach, a House committee was issuing congressional subpoenas to stop doctors from disconnecting the tube.
Such habeas corpus appeals seek to require the government to justify its actions.
"We are going to ask him to issue a stay because in this case, state action would be used to end the life of an innocent, disabled woman," the attorney, David Gibbs said.
In a last-ditch attempt to stop the court-ordered removal, a House committee on Capitol Hill here decided early Friday morning to start an investigation into Schiavo's case and issue subpoenas ordering doctors and hospice administrators not to remove her feeding tubes and to keep her alive until that investigation was complete.
"This inquiry should give hope to Terri, her parents and friends and the millions of people throughout the world who are praying for her safety," House Speaker Dennis Hastert, Majority Leader Tom DeLay and Government Reform chairman Tom Davis said in a joint statement. "This fight is not over."
The Government Reform Committee is the same committee that forced Major League Baseball players and officials to testify Thursday about steroid use.
A possible penalty for not recognizing the subpoena is to be held in contempt of Congress, a GOP leadership aide said.
================================================
It's Official, the Republican held U.S. now has full control of all aspects of humans in every state.
Wonder what Oregonians feel about this? Any over there in this thread???
sourceninja
Diamond Member
- Mar 8, 2005
- 8,805
- 65
- 91
If i was her husband, I would go visit her and stab her to death. Sure, I'd go to jail, maybe even be killed myself on death row, but she deserves release.
dont know that stabbing would be the easiest way to do it.
couldnt they just morphine her to death?
this is a rough issue, though.
is there anything written that the husband has?
You don't need a lawyer. All you need is an Advance Health Care Directive. Many hospitals carry them now for any patients that come in for surgery but I doubt they'd give you one if you're not a patient. However, they are easy to download and fill out. You can find them for various prices on the web (usally for a fee) or even buy basic legal software that will have them included. These are pretty straightforward and easy to fill out and perfectly legal. Don't waste your money on a lawyer. The thing you want to do though is be very specific. There is always an area you can write down specific wishes and restrictions. I would advise you to do so, from the voice of experience.
Less than a month ago I watched my mother pass away. She did fill out the Directive. To (somewhat) oversimplify a bit there were three choices; one is no artificial life support, a second is "basic" life support which means breathing assistance, feeding, meds, etc, and the last says something to the effect that they can do extraordinary things to try and keep you alive. My mother opted for number two: Normal life support, etc. The problem is, that is exactly what Terri Schiavo is going through right now. She is getting "basic" life support, whether she wants it or not. If you don't want to go through this, you MUST specify what is to take place under certain conditions. My mother didn't. She didn't want to be kept alive when her life wasn't viable but she didn't want to just give up on life either. That is why she opted for the basic support. However, after a couple of weeks (into a month long ordeal), it was obvious she wasn't going to live. If by some miracle she did, she would have lingered in a nursing facility for a couple of years at best, then died. However, since my sister had the power of attorney (via the Health Care Directive), she was extremely reluctant to stop the medications and let mom pass with comfort and dignity. We had all had conversations with mom in years past and knew she wouldn't have wanted to be kept alive by drugs and a ventilator as she was, when there was no real hope. However mom wasn't specific in her wishes on the AHCD. She never considered the "extreme" situation like she was going through. That is the problem. You MUST consider them and be specific in your wishes. Let me be clear. Her eyes would open from time to time and even move sometimes. However, it was a purely autonomic response; there was no focus, no recognition, no "life" in them at all. So, we sat through another couple of weeks of hell trying to decide what to do next. And I do mean it was hell. I don't wish to go into more detail that this but mom did finally pass with some comfort and dignity. Again, she (and we) never thought about the extremes in this. If so, there's no doubt she would have made things more clear.
Bottom line: Get and Advance Health Care Directive (AHCD), fill it out and be specific. You'll need a couple of witnesses but it'll save both you and your family a lot of gut wrenching hell; as it would have done in the case of Terri Schiavo. As soon as I got back, my wife and I got ours done immediatly; as did a number of family members who went through this with us. All I can say is don't let it happen to you.
BTW, the crap about Bush and only letting the rich have the right to die is just that; crap and has no place here. If you can't spend $20 for an AHCD to insure your right to dignity, then you've got more problems than this.
Thanks, well it's Official now:
WASHINGTON - Senate Republicans embroiled in the life-or-death legal battle over the severely brain-damaged Terri Schiavo invited the Florida woman to testify to Congress in a procedural move intended to keep her on life support.
-------------------------------
The OP of this thread really needs to change the Title to:
Republicans make Official moves to keep Schiavo alive forever
3chordcharlie
Diamond Member
- Mar 30, 2004
- 9,859
- 1
- 81
Speaking as another Oregonian, I'd say we've got the right idea and the feds need to stay the hell out of our business. BTW it's not Ashcroft anymore and it's not a "suicide act" it's the Death with Dignity Act. Since it's passing in 1998, the numbers rose steadily to a peak in 2003 of 68 prescriptions written with about 40+ actually taking the drugs to cause their death. However, that number declined in 2004 to 60 prescriptions written and 35 deaths.
Speaking also as a conservative in this sea of liberalism here in Oregon, I back any effort to keep the feds out our business in this matter. Having witnessed the passing of a loved one recently I feel very strongly about the right to die with dignity. The feds need to stay out of this because, whether it's a state law or not, it is indeed a personal choice and a right of each individual.
Wrong, The President considers people that are slowly dying as disabled:
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary - For Immediate Release March 17, 2005
STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT
The case of Terri Schiavo raises complex issues. Yet in instances like this one, where there are serious questions and substantial doubts, our society, our laws, and our courts should have a presumption in favor of life. Those who live at the mercy of others deserve our special care and concern. It should be our goal as a nation to build a culture of life, where all Americans are valued, welcomed, and protected and that culture of life must extend to individuals with disabilities.
It never ceases to amaze me how you folks take things completely out of context and read into them whatever you desire. Where does it say that the President believes " people that are slowly dying as disabled"? It does not. For that matter, we're ALL slowly dying; are we ALL disabled? You are drawing an inference where there is none just because he references "individuals with disabilities" at the end of the statement/paragraph. It's called an inclusive phrase, not a statement of policy.
What part of "instances like this one, where there are serious questions and substantial doubts" did you not understand? He's pointing out exactly what the problem is here; no written advanced care directive and dispute about the patient's wishes and her condition. Although I may or may not agree with it, he's preferring to err on the side of caution and life in this kind of scenario. That's it; nothing more "evil" about it than that. Besides, if everyone had their own AHCD filled out, neither the President, Congress, doctors or anyone else can do anything contrary to their wishes. It's that simple. Geez, take a breath once in a while and don't be so eager to go on the attack. It'll lower your blood pressure and that's a good thing!
This is a matter of personal liberty in which the government should have no authority whatsoever.
Make sure you have your advance directives/living will filled out.
Make sure you have your advance directives/living will filled out.
Originally posted by: Buz2b
It never ceases to amaze me how you folks take things completely out of context and read into them whatever you desire. Where does it say that the President believes " people that are slowly dying as disabled"? It does not. For that matter, we're ALL slowly dying; are we ALL disabled? You are drawing an inference where there is none just because he references "individuals with disabilities" at the end of the statement/paragraph. It's called an inclusive phrase, not a statement of policy.
What part of "instances like this one, where there are serious questions and substantial doubts" did you not understand? He's pointing out exactly what the problem is here; no written advanced care directive and dispute about the patient's wishes and her condition. Although I may or may not agree with it, he's preferring to err on the side of caution and life in this kind of scenario. That's it; nothing more "evil" about it than that. Besides, if everyone had their own AHCD filled out, neither the President, Congress, doctors or anyone else can do anything contrary to their wishes. It's that simple. Geez, take a breath once in a while and don't be so eager to go on the attack. It'll lower your blood pressure and that's a good thing!
"It is a contempt of Congress to prevent or discourage someone from following the subpoena that's been issued," David Gibbs, the attorney for her parents, said. "What the U.S. Congress is saying is, `We want to see Terri Schiavo.'"
"The family is prayerfully excited about their daughter going before the United States Congress for the whole world to see how alive she is."
He said that despite her brain damage, she would be able to travel.
=============================================
Wow, I bet she will travel and speak to Congress all by herself too
BREAKING NEWS: Terri Schiavo to Live Until 2050
"Terri is not terminal," he said. "If we feed Terri ... she will live another 30 to 40 years." a lawyer for Terri's parents said.
P&Ns dmcowen correct.....she will outlive all of us until she is only machine
"Terri is not terminal," he said. "If we feed Terri ... she will live another 30 to 40 years." a lawyer for Terri's parents said.
P&Ns dmcowen correct.....she will outlive all of us until she is only machine
Not so fast, the presiding Judge said the hell with Congress:
2
m EST 3-18-2005 Judge OKs Removal of Schiavo Feeding Tube The presiding judge in the case of Terri Schiavo ruled Friday that the feeding tube keeping the brain-damaged woman alive can be removed despite efforts by congressional Republicans to block the move by seeking her appearance at hearings.
Pinellas Circuit Judge George Greer refused a request from U.S. House attorneys to delay the removal, which he had previously ordered to take place at 1 p.m. EST. Greer determined that it should go forward about an hour after another judge issued a temporary delay blocking the tube's removal.
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