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terrorist attack in Orlando gay club - 50 dead, another 53 wounded

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michal1980 said:
like I stated before (and like I agreed with vic) speedy is nuts.

Not to speak for speedy, but if someone wants to remove rights form US citizens without any convection of any crime, why stop at just gun rights, based on that logic, we could kick them out of the country, or just throw them in jail. Its not a door I want opened.
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How do you explain all of the other countries that manage to have partial or strict gun control and don't seem to be evicting citizens or throwing them in jail left, right and centre? Is it possible that there's a rather huge middle ground where guns can be better controlled and all of your civil liberties aren't thrown away?
 
michal1980 said:
please point out the anti-Muslim rants.


your just part of the ultra PC, safe space, easily triggered generation.

Me being rational, can see that in the world there exist people that are Radical-Muslims. And those people want to cause us harm.
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Who the fuck is us?

You're suddenly going to kiss a gay man and invite him into your family's home?

Lets not forget you're the crowd that wants to put us back in the closet and I've fucked a few cute Muslim men too. There was one from bahrain who was particulary cute.

Guess what happened when they were outed by the religious zealots who believe in a sky god?

Conservaterrorists are conservaterrorists whether you label them muslims or christians.
 
swamplizard said:
Greetings,

And the knee jerk reaction continues: never mind the terror spewed by Christians in this country with the almost complete genocide of the Native American culture. Such ideology as Manifest Destiny created an environment where religious zealots fueled by political propaganda slaughtered innocent lives and corralled the remainder into concentration camps called "reservations." Yet again, we see such radical claims to a moral highground with a backdrop of "terrorism."

Wait and find out the facts...
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You are a Fucking Retard!!!
 
A terrible tragedy for all involved. Unfortunately the freedoms we enjoy come with certain risks that can be exploited by enemies and those who want to force change on our way of life.

I would urge caution from those looking to use terrible events like this to push agendas as emotional talking points rarely make for well thought out legislation. Do not let a minority of aggressors or incidents force change on a scale that greatly dwarfs the scope of the attacks - as terrible as those attacks are.

yllus said:
You actually got close to just that in 2015. But then the NRA and its money and Republican votes (a few Democratic ones too)...

MSNBC - GOP blocks bill to stop terrorists from buying guns
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You may want to look up all the terrible things wrong with watch lists before using that as an example. A list with poor oversight, hidden requirements, separate opaque and obscenely lengthy legal processes and fraught with known clerical errors should absolutely not be used to strip constitutional rights

The unfortunate thing is, while everyone bickers about religion and guns no one is talking about the blanket news coverage and the known and well documented risks that entails. Being at each other's throats about drastic changes to this country while simultaneously giving the shooters and extremists an insane amount of media exposure is giving them everything they want and so much more
 
yllus said:
How do you explain all of the other countries that manage to have partial or strict gun control and don't seem to be evicting citizens or throwing them in jail left, right and centre? Is it possible that there's a rather huge middle ground where guns can be better controlled and all of your civil liberties aren't thrown away?
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Those countries didn't have constitutional protections for guns. The argument is that if one right is threatened, then all are. I'm not sure I buy it, but the hysteria that goes with guns could very well go with religious freedoms as well. They are two sides of the political spectrum.

I don't feign to believe I know the solution. IMO these acts are the cost of having guns readily available and being able to freely express and stew on any type of ideology. Personally I'd give up guns before freedom of expression, but I don't think we have a choice such as that. They are both likely coupled and taking away one gives ammo to the other side to take away the other (as I've shown over the last few posts.)
 
Greenman said:
We argue about guns and Muslims, when the problem is insane ideas. Insane people whispering in the ear of the weak minded, people that follow without thought, people that are easily stirred to hatred. Those ideas and those people are the issue, and they've been enabled by instant worldwide communication. That's what I see as the problem, what I don't see is any way of stopping it.
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Pretty much this. No way to stop it really, and the whole blame others game is only escalating the problem.
 
Indus said:
Who the fuck is us?

You're suddenly going to kiss a gay man and invite him into your family's home?

Lets not forget you're the crowd that wants to put us back in the closet and I've fucked a few cute Muslim men too. There was one from bahrain who was particulary cute.

Guess what happened when they were outed by the religious zealots who believe in a sky god?

Conservaterrorists are conservaterrorists whether you label them muslims or christians.
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Us as in Americans'.


Where and how am I trying to put you back in the closet?


You sound like a very angry person.
 
In case people have forgotten, the original attack took place in Florida, not California.

I don't recall Florida being an "anti-gun" state compared to California.
 
jackstar7 said:
Sorry, what is the point of your opening there?

Are you implying that gun legislation is a futile pursuit? Or something else?
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I'm directly telling you that you are not going to stop the violence from Radical Jihadist by pretending that they will follow the law as you tip toe around the fact that they exist in the US or by eliminating our Constitutional right in order to gain a false sense of safety/security.
 
Subyman said:
That's what Speedy is proposing anyway.

FWIW, I don't agree with those potential laws. I find it interesting how some would limit 1st amendment rights but not 2nd amendment. Also how speedy is more interested in watching mosques and profiling communities instead of enacting policy that would have actually helped in this case when we already knew about the guy. Its not a issue of finding these guys, its an issue of being able to do something about it.
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They're already able to do something about it. The FBI investigated Mateen twice and found no evidence of criminal intent. Do you believe that he should have been punished anyway despite that lack of evidence?

And just to be clear, I oppose violating any Constitutional rights, even in cases where it might improve safety. I'm also entirely unconvinced that any of the civil rights infringements proposed in response to this attack would have prevented it.
 
Very scary, I live in Orlando and know a few people that go to that club occasionally. Spent most of the morning trying to find out if they were all right/had been there.

What took place this morning was a terrible tragedy. My thoughts go out to all involved.
 
Triloby said:
In case people have forgotten, the original attack took place in Florida, not California.

I don't recall Florida being an "anti-gun" state compared to California.
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True, HOWEVER the article I linked above was of an another apparent and impending attack that was stopped before it occurred. Additionally California was the previous state where the San Bernardino terrorist massacre (Sorry it was not a incident of "Work place violence") occurred. You remember that tragic incident right? Or does it conveniently escape your memory?
 
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Capt Caveman said:
30 years is recent?
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Can you answer the FUCKING question? You guys say that muslim immigrants are not the problem and I ask a simple question and you won't fucking answer it.

The question is what is your response to the FACT that every muslim attack on American soil was done by recent immigrants or their children?

Bonus points if you can answer the question why NO OTHER immigrant group is implicated in ANY terrorist attacks on American soil.

If you don't believe that cultures that oppress women, kill gays, support theocracies, hate science, etc... ARE TOXIC to first world secular nations, what can I say other than you are wrong.
 
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Indus said:
Who the fuck is us?

You're suddenly going to kiss a gay man and invite him into your family's home?

Lets not forget you're the crowd that wants to put us back in the closet and I've fucked a few cute Muslim men too. There was one from bahrain who was particulary cute.

Guess what happened when they were outed by the religious zealots who believe in a sky god?

Conservaterrorists are conservaterrorists whether you label them muslims or christians.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I find this entire rant to be just about as stupid as what the extremists think. Label everyone you disagree with as the same "type", and then hate them. I'm not sure why you felt the need to include sexual exploits, I don't think anyone here cares.
 
bshole said:
Can you answer the FUCKING question? You guys say that muslim immigrants are not the problem and I ask a simple question and you won't fucking answer it.

The question is what is your response to the FACT that every muslim attack on American soil was done by recent Muslim immigrants or their children?

Bonus points if you can answer the question why NO OTHER immigrant group is implicated in ANY terrorist attacks on American soil.
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30 years is not recent. You do know that this killer was born in NYC 29 years ago, right? And thus his parents migrated to the US over 29 years ago.

What immigrant group was Timothy McVeigh of?
 
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