Temps While Encoding Video?

[Burpo]

NORMAL operation of the i7-870..
"the i7-870 has the Intel Turbo feature allowing an instant overclock by increasing the multiplier by two on the primary core and 1x on the remaining three so the cores are clocked to 24, 23, 23, 23 when you need the extra power most giving an overclock of 3.6GHz."

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/intel_core_i7-870_lynnfield_processor/2

 

[Virgorising]

NORMAL operation of the i7-870..
"the i7-870 has the Intel Turbo feature allowing an instant overclock by increasing the multiplier by two on the primary core and 1x on the remaining three so the cores are clocked to 24, 23, 23, 23 when you need the extra power most giving an overclock of 3.6GHz."

First, Bless U, cause this is brilliant.

But, again, that first screenie I put up was from when the system was at idle pretty much, and it said 27 I think.

So, now, and STILL, for me, the operative (I would say core instead of operative, but that would be too cute:sneaky... issue is and remains "when you need the extra power most.'

Would have been one thing had I seen what I did and made the screenie when the system was under load, i.e. video encoding. But, it was NOT.

Do you see the specifics of my confusion and concern? Now, even reiterated given you last post!!!:\

 

[Bubbleawsome]

First, Bless U, cause this is brilliant.

But, again, that first screenie I put up was from when the system was at idle pretty much, and it said 27 I think.

So, now, and STILL, for me, the operative (I would say core instead of operative, but that would be too cute:sneaky... issue is and remains "when you need the extra power most.'

Would have been one thing had I seen what I did and made the screenie when the system was under load, i.e. video encoding. But, it was NOT.

Do you see the specifics of my confusion and concern? Now, even reiterated given you last post!!!:\

Intel boost is pretty random, just during any load. The 27 multiplier is due to only one core boosting, the more cores you boost the lower speed per core it gives. For example, my 870. 1 core boost 3.6/1.8/1.8/1.8 IIRC whereas all 4 cores boost to 3.4/3.4/3.4/3.4.

 

[Virgorising]

Intel boost is pretty random, just during any load. The 27 multiplier is due to only one core boosting, the more cores you boost the lower speed per core it gives. For example, my 870. 1 core boost 3.6/1.8/1.8/1.8 IIRC whereas all 4 cores boost to 3.4/3.4/3.4/3.4.

Boys and girls (however few comprise the latter), I think above, we have a WINNAH!!!! That you shared specific metrics about your chip which is identical to mine.....ROCKED.:thumbsup: New hysteria may soon abate!

But I am now a little creeped out by "random." Wouldn't you assume Tuboboost would have been evolved to be a leetle more discerning and nuanced? I did. Assume that, I mean.

Thanks so much for this last....and all that went before it.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

Boys and girls (however few comprise the latter), I think above, we have a WINNAH!!!! That you shared specific metrics about your chip which is identical to mine.....ROCKED.:thumbsup: New hysteria may soon abate!

But I am now a little creeped out by "random." Wouldn't you assume Tuboboost would have been evolved to be a leetle more discerning and nuanced? I did. Assume that, I mean.

Thanks so much for this last....and all that went before it.

I have no idea how it works, just that it does. I know someone out there could explain it.

But I really love the 870/875k. (Same chip) Even though they run hot mine's lasted through 4 years now of 75c averages, a dead psu, a crappy mobo (on the 2nd one) 1.3vcore, 3 videocards and 2 thermal shutdowns.
Best chip of the original core i IMO, even the 9xx series had its problems.

 

[Burpo]

Idle means no load on the CPU, and can show the maximum multiplier of 1 core in any of these monitoring type applications. Ask your pc to do anything other than run some speed monitor app and watch that multiplier drop. You're thinking about this backwards. No load = show max multiplier.. Load = show true multiplier..

 

[Virgorising]

I have no idea how it works, just that it does. I know someone out there could explain it.

But I really love the 870/875k. (Same chip) Even though they run hot mine's lasted through 4 years now of 75c averages, a dead psu, a crappy mobo (on the 2nd one) 1.3vcore, 3 videocards and 2 thermal shutdowns.
Best chip of the original core i IMO, even the 9xx series had its problems.

I too LUV IT. And thanks much for the new data above; i agree, best chip of its generation AND better than many in subsequent generations. When the time arrives for me to get a new Optiplex on ebay, the chip comes first. This last purchase was no exception. this vendor offered a second machine, I think originally form the same business, but that one had the 860, and it went for more than I got mine for. I din even bid on the 860.

I did not know it ran hot compared with others. U think it's cause it is 95W?

But 75C? I am getting nowhere near that, thank God. Remember, I went batdoody seeing temps in the 50s while VIDEO ENCODING!

Tell me, are your cores parked or unparked? Is yours an ATX case with good thermal flow? How is your power option configured?

I now wanna know why you are getting that on average, cause it seems way high to me.
________________________________________
Edit: Pls C below. I have VLC playing, two browsers open, am logged on to Skype, working in WORD. Maybe not much, but average for me. Please see my 870's temps. I think we need to find out why yours are running as high as U share!!!
__________________________________________
New edit: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/326122-28-help-intel#.

 

[Virgorising]

Idle means no load on the CPU, and can show the maximum multiplier of 1 core in any of these monitoring type applications. Ask your pc to do anything other than run some speed monitor app and watch that multiplier drop. You're thinking about this backwards. No load = show max multiplier.. Load = show true multiplier..

OMG!!!!

:biggrin:

THANK YOU!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Virgorising]

More for Bubbleawesome!

Just found below addressing our specific chip, tho am sure it applies to Turbo altogether. Pls read and see the part about cooling I made purple. Says Turboboost throttles down in response to heat!

(And, I track this: people still buying this chip right now on Amazon, both new and used.)

Speed Limits: Things That Will Keep Turbo Mode from Working

As awesome as it is, Turbo doesn't work 100% of the time, its usefulness varies on a number of factors including the instruction mix of active threads and processor cooling.
The actual instructions being executed by each core will determine the amount of current drawn and total TDP of the processor. For example, video encoding uses a lot of SSE instructions which in turn keep the SSE units busy on the chip; the front end remains idle and is clock gated, so power is saved there. The resulting power savings are translated into higher clock frequency. Intel tells us that video encoding should see the maximum improvement of two bins with all four cores active.
Floating point code stresses both the front end and back end of the pipe, here we should expect to see only a 133MHz increase from turbo mode if any at all. In short, you can't simply look at whether an app uses one, two or more threads. It's what the app does that matters.
There's also the issue of background threads running in the OS. Although your foreground app may only use a single thread, there are usually dozens (if not hundreds) of active threads on your system at any time. Just a few of those being scheduled on sleeping cores will wake them up and limit your max turbo frequency (Windows 7 is allegedly better at not doing this).
You can't really control the instruction mix of the apps you run or how well they're threaded, but this last point you can control: cooling. The sort-of trump all feature that you have to respect is Intel's thermal throttling. If the CPU ever gets too hot, it will automatically reduce its clock speed in order to avoid damaging the processor; this includes a clock speed increase due to turbo mode.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

I too LUV IT. And thanks much for the new data above; i agree, best chip of its generation AND better than many in subsequent generations. When the time arrives for me to get a new Optiplex on ebay, the chip comes first. This last purchase was no exception. this vendor offered a second machine, I think originally form the same business, but that one had the 860, and it went for more than I got mine for. I din even bid on the 860.

I did not know it ran hot compared with others. U think it's cause it is 95W?

But 75C? I am getting nowhere near that, thank God. Remember, I went batdoody seeing temps in the 50s while VIDEO ENCODING!

Tell me, are your cores parked or unparked? Is yours an ATX case with good thermal flow? How is your power option configured?

I now wanna know why you are getting that on average, cause it seems way high to me.
________________________________________
Edit: Pls C below. I have VLC playing, two browsers open, am logged on to Skype, working in WORD. Maybe not much, but average for me. Please see my 870's temps. I think we need to find out why yours are running as high as U share!!!
__________________________________________
New edit: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/326122-28-help-intel#.

I'm on the intel stock cooler, and mine runs on 1.3vcore, yours probably runs at 1.25. I am also in a mATX case with horribad airflow. I don't know about core parking, but I run folding@home so it is always at 100% except during gaming! but I play CPU intensive games (beamng drive, minecraft with mods.), so it stays warm near 24/7.

 

[Virgorising]

Sorry, one more from the same place as the above, this, again re core parking, OMG.

Lynnfield: Made for Windows 7 (or vice versa)

Core Parking is a feature included in Windows 7 and enabled on any multi-socket machine or any system with Hyper Threading enabled (e.g. Pentium 4, Atom, Core i7). The feature looks at the performance penalty from migrating a thread from one core to another; if the fall looks too dangerous, Windows 7 won't jump - the thread will stay parked on that core.
What this fixes are a number of the situations where enabling Hyper Threading will reduce performance thanks to Windows moving a thread from a physical core to a logical core. This also helps multi-socket systems where moving a thread from one core to the next might mean moving it (and all of its data) from one memory controller to another one on an adjacent socket.
Core Parking can't help an application that manually assigns affinity to a core. We've still seen situations where HT reduces performance under Windows 7 for example with AutoCAD 2010 and World of Warcraft.
With support in the OS however, developers should have no reason to assign affinity in software - the OS is now smart enough to properly handle multi-socket and HT enabled machines.

HOMEWORK: HOW TURBO MODE WORKSLYNNFIELD'S UN-CORE: FASTER THAN MOST BLOOMFIELDS

 

[Virgorising]

I'm on the intel stock cooler, and mine runs on 1.3vcore, yours probably runs at 1.25. I am also in a mATX case with horribad airflow. I don't know about core parking, but I run folding@home so it is always at 100% except during gaming! but I play CPU intensive games (beamng drive, minecraft with mods.), so it stays warm near 24/7.

"horribad"! I like it.:sneaky:

Why is the thermal flow horribad? Are cables unbundled? Is it the configuration of the internal components?

I din know you were a gamer. But that still don mean yr temps should average high when not gaming, does it?

Is yr thermal paste decent? Do you blow out yr heatsink to get rid of tumbleweeds? Or remove it and clean it fully?

Not sure what cooler Dell uses in this system, if it's stock, etc. I know it sits on little rubber feet which I luved when I saw it, cause never saw that before.... but I've never once had a problem with any in my Optis. U think it would pay for U to get an aftermarket cooler?
_________________________________________________
Edit: looked in the service manual (downloaded it before I bid on the system) to find more info on the cooler, but, typically could not find out the maker. It looks sleazoid, esp compared to what I just saw in Watercooled guy's system via his videos, OMG.....but trust me, this puppy WORKS!

I think you might consider an after market cooler. Cause who deserves it more?????

 

[Bubbleawsome]

"horribad"! I like it.:sneaky:

Why is the thermal flow horribad? Are cables unbundled? Is it the configuration of the internal components?

I din know you were a gamer. But that still don mean yr temps should average high when not gaming, does it?

Is yr thermal paste decent? Do you blow out yr heatsink to get rid of tumbleweeds? Or remove it and clean it fully?

It only has 1 outtake fan. I idle at lower than 30c, it's just nearly always under load. It's an offbrand thermal paste, but it's better than the OEM one, and it is clean.

 

[Virgorising]

It only has 1 outtake fan. I idle at lower than 30c, it's just nearly always under load. It's an offbrand thermal paste, but it's better than the OEM one, and it is clean.

OK, thanks much for the above. Cause now, I feel better.

 

[glugglug]

With the stock Intel HSF, after a year or so of the defective-by-design pogo pins stretching, Lynnfield/Bloomfield will alternate between 99C and 100C during encoding!!!!! When it hits 100, turbo turns off until it drops to 99 and turns it back on again. You can run it at this temp indefinitely, I kid you not. Even brand new it will hit 90C.

(The stock HSF is almost the same as not having a heatsink at all! -- in fact after the pogo pins stretched to the point that only the bottom edge of the heatsink was in contact with the CPU so that the heatsink was basically making an insulative air gap, it only made about a 5C difference at idle vs. a brand new stock HSF, and I found out it had that huge air gap because Diablo III would crash about once every 6 hours. Removing the heatsink entirely the PC was able to run stably as both my DVR and primary PC until a real heatsink arrived. Stopped playing games and doing any encoding during those few days though.)

 

[Bubbleawsome]

With the stock Intel HSF, after a year or so of the defective-by-design pogo pins stretching, Lynnfield/Bloomfield will alternate between 99C and 100C during encoding!!!!! When it hits 100, turbo turns off until it drops to 99 and turns it back on again. You can run it at this temp indefinitely, I kid you not. Even brand new it will hit 90C. (The stock HSF is almost the same as not having a heatsink at all!)

Erm... What? I've had mine 4 years and encoding only maxes at 80c. Stock HSF. And no, you can not run it indefinitely, unless you call running until it dies a heat death indefinitely.

 

[Virgorising]

With the stock Intel HSF, after a year or so of the defective-by-design pogo pins stretching, Lynnfield/Bloomfield will alternate between 99C and 100C during encoding!!!!! When it hits 100, turbo turns off until it drops to 99 and turns it back on again. You can run it at this temp indefinitely, I kid you not. Even brand new it will hit 90C.

(The stock HSF is almost the same as not having a heatsink at all! -- in fact after the pogo pins stretched to the point that only the bottom edge of the heatsink was in contact with the CPU so that the heatsink was basically making an insulative air gap, it only made about a 5C difference at idle vs. a brand new stock HSF, and I found out it had that huge air gap because Diablo III would crash about once every 6 hours. Removing the heatsink entirely the PC was able to run stably as both my DVR and primary PC until a real heatsink arrived. Stopped playing games and doing any encoding during those few days though.)

My, how broad brush OMINOUS .

I have no idea if my heatsink fan is stock or not. What I do know is how wondrously optiplexes are engineered and made, how they partner with makers of all components make very high demands, simply because the last thing they want is complaints/requests for replacement parts from the business and institutions they sell these systems to in quantity eating away at their profits....and, I include Samsung's SSDs whose reliability is in part credited to Dell's holding THEIR feet to the fire to meet their requirements for SSDs for their new systems:

anort3
STORAGE MASTER
July 18, 2012 3:39:55 AM

One of the reasons Samsung drives have such a good reputation for reliability is the testing done for Dell. Dell would never put something with a high fail rate in their computers since they would have to replace the bad units. They may very well use a vendor specific firmware for Dell.





Now, if you are speaking from personal (painful) experience with the system you refer to, that's normal and credible. If you are trying to use that experience to illogically extend and broad brush impugn, that is neither OK nor credible, given it abrogates every tenet of responsible data-gathering.
​

And, that this system I am on was in use for just under 2 years before I got it, and everything functions flawlessly, including the HSF, witness my temps....well, I rest my case. The first screenie I put up in this thread, was made DURING VIDEO ENCODING. See the temps. I once saw them higher when VSO was encoding 10 files simultaneously.

 

[Virgorising]

Erm... What? I've had mine 4 years and encoding only maxes at 80c. Stock HSF. And no, you can not run it indefinitely, unless you call running until it dies a heat death indefinitely.

Pls see my response to the OMINOUS without justification, brush POST which took you aback.

But I still feel you deserve an affordable after marker cooler for your lovely Lynnfield.

 

[glugglug]

Erm... What? I've had mine 4 years and encoding only maxes at 80c. Stock HSF. And no, you can not run it indefinitely, unless you call running until it dies a heat death indefinitely.

If you only peg one or two cores, (and most games are close to single threaded) it will stay below 80C even with the stock HSF.

Try something that pegs them all like some video encoders (or if your encoder only uses say about 3 logical cores which seems common, try encoding 3 videos at once). Particularly with hyperthreading (use all 8 logical cores). I guarantee you AIDA64 will get you to 100C within 2 minutes on the stock HSF.

My, how broad brush OMINOUS .
I have no idea if my heatsink fan is stock or not.

Now, if you are speaking from personal (painful) experience with the system you refer to, that's normal and credible. If you are trying to use that experience to illogically extend and broad brush impugn, that is neither OK nor credible, given it abrogates every tenet of responsible data-gathering.

I guarantee your Dell does NOT use the stock Intel HSF. No major OEM does, because like you said, they wouldn't want to deal with the fail rates. Can't seem to find it now, but I know I've seen a page about a class action against Intel for the horribly flawed retention mechanism the stock HSF uses.

After I found out just how badly the HSF was doing, I asked some coworkers who also built their own systems, and 2 of them were using the stock HSF. When they went to check temps, both were idling around 65C due to the pogo pins having stretched and no longer making good contact, and could easily hit 100C doing anything really stressful. The only way the stock heatsink maintains good contact with the CPU after a few years of the pogo pins stretching is if you have your case/motherboard oriented horizontally (i.e. put your tower on its side), so that gravity holds the HSF against the CPU.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

If you only peg one or two cores, (and most games are close to single threaded) it will stay below 80C even with the stock HSF.

Try something that pegs them all like some video encoders.

Or F@H, or lynpack, or OCCT, or P95? All of them except OCCT stay under 80c. OCCT lags out and crashes, never gets a temp reading. To be fair, I have a custom fan curve set up.

 

[Virgorising]

If you only peg one or two cores, (and most games are close to single threaded) it will stay below 80C even with the stock HSF.

Try something that pegs them all like some video encoders.

AGAIN, the screenie I put up in my initial post in this thread was made during video encoding. I had core parking off and VSO set to use all cores.

And what I THEN thought were high temps freaked me out. I now finally get, high in video encoding is not exactly in the 50s.

Please do not bungee your experience into: THE SKY will fall in X minutes with the stock cooler; the chip will be incendiary and only saved by Turboboost however briefly; there are NO VARIABLES IMPACTING, RUN FOR THE HILLS!

 

[Virgorising]

Or F@H, or lynpack, or OCCT, or P95? All of them except OCCT stay under 80c. OCCT lags out and crashes, never gets a temp reading. To be fair, I have a custom fan curve set up.

:thumbsup::biggrin:

Deep breaths now.....:sneaky:

 

[Virgorising]

I guarantee your Dell does NOT use the stock Intel HSF. No major OEM does, because like you said, they wouldn't want to deal with the fail rates. Can't seem to find it now, but I know I've seen a page about a class action against Intel for the horribly flawed retention mechanism the stock HSF uses.

K that's possible. That Dell doesn't. I have no idea. Look at the image of it I put up....right out of the shop manual. Does it look the same?
____________________________________

OK, here is a refurbished one on eBay. Mouse over it, you can see every mm of it clearly. Does it look stock or not? Does it look like yours???
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optipl...954?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a32c2260a

And here is my heatsink:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-OEM...?pt=US_CPU_Fans_Heatsinks&hash=item2ec603ce8c
__________________________________________
You know....if you turn Hyperthreading off in the bios.....bet it would lower the temps regardless of which HSF U use.

 

[glugglug]

K that's possible. That Dell doesn't. I have no idea. Look at the image of it I put up....right out of the shop manual. Does it look the same?
____________________________________

OK, here is a refurbished one on eBay. Mouse over it, you can see every mm of it clearly. Does it look stock or not? Does it look like yours???
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optipl...954?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a32c2260a

Of course not.... here is the stock one for Bloomfield.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-i7-LGA1366-Stock-Heatsink-and-Fan-Aluminum-Copper-Core-E97380-001-/111150564705?pt=US_CPU_Fans_Heatsinks&hash=item19e1170561

Note the appropriate price.

Here's the Lynnfield one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Pentium-i3-i5-i7-CPU-Cooler-Fan-Heatsink-LGA-1155-1156-Sandy-Ivy-NEW-/281189394287?pt=US_CPU_Fans_Heatsinks&hash=item417831a76f

 

[Virgorising]

Of course not.... here is the stock one for Bloomfield. I believe the lynnfield one is just a little bit bigger, with the same stupid pogo pins:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-i7-LG...?pt=US_CPU_Fans_Heatsinks&hash=item19e1170561

Note the appropriate price.

K, visuals always help. That is for socket LGA1366. The Lynnfield i7 870 is LGA1156.
_________________________________
K, I now see the Lynnfield one you added. They do both look kinda sleazoid. I guess they try to save on no metal housing. Is there any housing at all?????

I do find them very depressing.:|

I see what you mean now. But I still think you were being way too alarmist/ominous in your first post, hence what Bubbleawesome here posted in response re his subjective experience with the stock cooler over 4 years.

But more than ever now, I want Santa to bring him an after market cooler.