Temash peformance tablet SoC

[Nemesis 1]

By the way 7 watts SPD is that IVB7 watt core that in reality uses 10watt with hub

Haswell 7 watts and below are 7watt is TDC not sdp . Why are you putting SDP behind AMD products. Your abit like AMD . Use the K to unlocked use a higher number on an inferior product . ARE you sure your not AMD top brass you seem to have same mantality

 

[Nemesis 1]

Good point. If it takes a chicken and a half a day and a half to lay an egg and a half, how many days does it take an ant with a wooden leg to kick the seeds out of a dill pickle?

Maybe processors should carry more than just a TDP label for manufacturers. After all, the TDP is marketed to consumers and is quite misleading. For instance, Temash with a 3.9W max TDP but under rare circumstances would it hit that TDP. For most scenarios it would be a 1W SDP.

Something like 3.9W/1W/.05W is far more meaningful. And accurate.

I will bet what ever you said right now not one true word . The best part Anand will check everthing you just stated when he has shipping product in his hand next Nov

 

[frozentundra123456]

All the new chips coming out seem very confusing. Too many marketing department predictions and no real data yet, or even assurance that they will come out on time.

However, in the long run, I cant see Intel not being able to take advantage of their process lead and R/D budget to move ahead in the x86 area. The problem I see is if Intel is willing to sell the chips at a price competitive to AMD and especially ARM.

 

[Nemesis 1]

These days there are plenty of examples of tablets being shipped almost immediately after the SoC it uses is announced. Time to market has been going down and when a company decides to announce a product is arbitrary anyway.

Your right established Arm makers . AMD isn't established to my knowledge as its all I have heard Temash has 3 design wins 2 established Dell HP and a newbe , The Newbe won't be around long after dumping intel and saying what they said . Sure they sell Intel stuff now . But Intel shipping them product . They just moved to the bottom of intels list . Intel has to sell to them . But intel can ship to whom ever it wants 1ST Apple has proven this , Lenovo has proven this , Playing hard ball with intel in this market Is dumbest thing I ever seen So they won't recieve product until Intel wants to ship it . This company better pray that AMD doesn't get backhanded by intel once again , Or their future is bleek at best , Intel doesn't have to make behind closed door deal . They just need to punish those who cross them . AMDs referrance company didn't have to say what they said and how they said it when we will see product that shows that statement false . Bad move by them . They best Hope AMD succeeds but I doubt , AMD 64 woke the sleeping giant , And intel murdered them . They will do the same in this space

 

[sm625]

I doubt Anand is going to check a chicken and a half for a day and a half or even a minute and a half.

 

[Exophase]

Well I don't know if AMD and their limited number of partners has or hasn't gotten better in this regard, I just wouldn't reject the possibility.

The stuff you're saying that seems to be implying that these companies are making a big mistake in making a couple AMD products because they'll piss off Intel is disturbing to say the least. I don't agree one bit that Intel should be punishing those who "cross them" by not giving them 100% exclusivity, much less do I think they need to.

I've said this before and I feel like I'm going to be saying this a lot, but I don't understand why Intel has to dominate everything such that it pushes everyone else to extinction, even if said competitors had much lower volume prospects to begin with. AMD is deliberately dedicating more GPU resources to their low power SoCs than Intel is, that's a fact. This gives them appeal for different kinds of products and different kinds of buyers. There's room for more than one kind of tablet and demographic. I never see anyone talking about how one car manufacturer or even one manufacturer of some particular car part needs to run all the others to extinction, same with say TVs.. yes we're talking about SoCs and not end-products but there's still room for differentiation.

 

[Nemesis 1]

All the new chips coming out seem very confusing. Too many marketing department predictions and no real data yet, or even assurance that they will come out on time.

However, in the long run, I cant see Intel not being able to take advantage of their process lead and R/D budget to move ahead in the x86 area. The problem I see is if Intel is willing to sell the chips at a price competitive to AMD and especially ARM.

That because you really don't see the the dynamics at play here , All you people are stuck on Margins , These chips don't cost intel as much to make ,as people would have you believe Intel makes these chips for the same amount or less than any fab. So they are paying less than all others except Samsung . Intel in this market doesn't need high margins These are really high volumn sales and Intel and its shareholders will embrace High Volumn sales with open ARMS . Intel actually understands this market.It took awhile but they get it now

 

[podspi]

Well I don't know if AMD and their limited number of partners has or hasn't gotten better in this regard, I just wouldn't reject the possibility.

The stuff you're saying that seems to be implying that these companies are making a big mistake in making a couple AMD products because they'll piss off Intel is disturbing to say the least. I don't agree one bit that Intel should be punishing those who "cross them" by not giving them 100% exclusivity, much less do I think they need to.

I've said this before and I feel like I'm going to be saying this a lot, but I don't understand why Intel has to dominate everything such that it pushes everyone else to extinction, even if said competitors had much lower volume prospects to begin with. AMD is deliberately dedicating more GPU resources to their low power SoCs than Intel is, that's a fact. This gives them appeal for different kinds of products and different kinds of buyers. There's room for more than one kind of tablet and demographic. I never see anyone talking about how one car manufacturer or even one manufacturer of some particular car part needs to run all the others to extinction, same with say TVs.. yes we're talking about SoCs and not end-products but there's still room for differentiation.

I think the big difference between semiconductors and automobiles is that while both industries enjoy significant economies of scale, the minimum efficient scale is much larger for semiconductors, and getting larger with each new node.

The higher your volume, the faster you can develop a new node, the faster you can develop a new node, the better your products will be [keeping design constant]. I am no expert in either industry, but my perception is that this is just not the case with automobiles.

 

[Exophase]

Cars were just one example. There are plenty of other ones, including within semiconductors. The point is there isn't just one criteria for evaluating everything and you usually don't come out with a silver bullet product that's just better in every way, even if it's on a better node.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Well I don't know if AMD and their limited number of partners has or hasn't gotten better in this regard, I just wouldn't reject the possibility.

The stuff you're saying that seems to be implying that these companies are making a big mistake in making a couple AMD products because they'll piss off Intel is disturbing to say the least. I don't agree one bit that Intel should be punishing those who "cross them" by not giving them 100% exclusivity, much less do I think they need to.

I've said this before and I feel like I'm going to be saying this a lot, but I don't understand why Intel has to dominate everything such that it pushes everyone else to extinction, even if said competitors had much lower volume prospects to begin with. AMD is deliberately dedicating more GPU resources to their low power SoCs than Intel is, that's a fact. This gives them appeal for different kinds of products and different kinds of buyers. There's room for more than one kind of tablet and demographic. I never see anyone talking about how one car manufacturer or even one manufacturer of some particular car part needs to run all the others to extinction, same with say TVs.. yes we're talking about SoCs and not end-products but there's still room for differentiation.

No its how they said it publicly . No need for that . They were Hyping AMD and their own product with a misdirection play . Good linebacker will snuff that out and possiably injury that player and put them out of the Game forgood . Apple is a good example Of Adrian Peterson .
It was badly handle and they will pay for it. By the way I used singularity in my referrance , Why did you make it plural ?

 

[Nemesis 1]

I doubt Anand is going to check a chicken and a half for a day and a half or even a minute and a half.

DOES anyone else believe Anand won't do the exact same voltage testing that he is doing in this market today? I thought not! You don't have chickens all you got was egg in face

 

[frozentundra123456]

That because you really don't see the the dynamics at play here , All you people are stuck on Margins , These chips don't cost intel as much to make ,as people would have you believe Intel makes these chips for the same amount or less than any fab. So they are paying less than all others except Samsung . Intel in this market doesn't need high margins These are really high volumn sales and Intel and its shareholders will embrace High Volumn sales with open ARMS . Intel actually understands this market.It took awhile but they get it now

Look at the ultrabook as an example. Intel is trying to compete with tablets, yes, but they are also trying to move the market upscale toward higher margin products than go into 300 dollar pentium laptops that offer nearly the same performance as an ultra book. So far that effort has had mixed success at best.

 

[Xpage]

So this thread has now degraded into chickens and eggs...


So with the increased transistor density can we cook an egg on haswell's heatspreader? And what about a chicken? Or must we wait till broadwell for that feature?

Back in reality, AMD does have problems getting good processor support out in a timely fashion, even with good products. Hopefully they have learned from the past and this product is good enough to have convinced a few companies to use it and have products ready on launch day in March.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Look at the ultrabook as an example. Intel is trying to compete with tablets, yes, but they are also trying to move the market upscale toward higher margin products than go into 300 dollar pentium laptops that offer nearly the same performance as an ultra book. So far that effort has had mixed success at best.

To keep that market Intel has to deliver . Haswell does that . The cost of the soc chip is low That will be intels lowest end part Even Silvermont could enter this market but Intel will use it to attack the tablet market Intel wins tablet, Phones follow . ONLY the BEST players will be left . AMD is not one of those . There bench players at best. NV will even have a tuff time of it.

I don't get you guys How many times has intel said It wants Good products in ultras at Affordable pricies Intel doesn't want this to be a $1000 product and has said so repeatedly intel should become like Apple Make their own products That Out dazzle and outperform all others . 1 shop is the only way thats possiable . Right now The best partner Intel has is Lenovo , You become number1 threw mutual collaberation

 

[NTMBK]

To keep that market Intel has to deliver . Haswell does that . The cost of the soc chip is low That will be intels lowest end part Even Silvermont could enter this market but Intel will use it to attack the tablet market Intel wins tablet, Phones follow . ONLY the BEST players will be left . AMD is not one of those . There bench players at best. NV will even have a tuff time of it.

You repeatedly say that the cost of the SoC will be low, but what evidence do you have?

 

[pablo87]

Its funny The road intel took They took Haswell from the top down to tablets .

With the atom core they worked out the things they need to which ends with the Z2580s and Silvermont all this to get into phones with tablets as an after thought NO way has AMD positioned itself better in this space Intel already has 7 phones after oems see how quickly intel can come with new models intels is now on their short list. Temash looks good . But I am betting intels Silvermont cpu cores kick it around as for graphics in will be generation 7 intel . I pretty sure with differant power levels . If intel said Products shipping by holidays with silvermont . They will both be arriving around the same time , The fact Temash is good might put ants in intels pants as always its wait and see . As for your pricing of AMD Temash . Haswell will sell just above it on tablets the best of the best . Silvermont will sell below and I do believe intels going for some payback here and will undercut Temash by alot Intel silvermont dies cann't cost more than 6 bucks in this space intels cost . I would like to see silvermont @ $30 Haswell at $60-70 . Were every temash sets intel needs to sqeeze and sqeeze and sqeeze some more there is no intel monopoloy any more ARM sells more cpus than anyone they are the monopoly for the time being

I question how Haswell is a viable competitor in 2013 - isn't NB still a separate chip consuming 3W all on its own?

Price war only works against AMD (in theory and practice) when Intel has an equivalent product. Unfortunately, this is not the case here - Temash will have vastly superior graphics.

On cost, Intel is spending more or less $12B annually on capex for past 2 years (and refused to disclose 2013 capex) which equates to $40 per x86 processor. If this capex level is the new normal, and the company is not growing, then capex = depreciation. Obviously Intel can assign whatever cost they want to their SOCs but it could be argued that since traditional PC market is shrinking, processors destined for tablet should be included in that grosso modo $40 depreciation per processor allocation...

(Not that it matters much given AMD's $1.1B take or pay commit to Gloflo for 2013 which the more they ship Kabini's and Temashes, the more under water they become, go try to figure out how to assign cost there.)

On another subject, I found your comment on AMD's partner interesting and wrong. I know one of the principals, they are much bigger picture thinking than this....

 

[Vesku]

Your right established Arm makers . AMD isn't established to my knowledge as its all I have heard Temash has 3 design wins 2 established Dell HP and a newbe , The Newbe won't be around long after dumping intel and saying what they said . Sure they sell Intel stuff now . But Intel shipping them product . They just moved to the bottom of intels list . Intel has to sell to them . But intel can ship to whom ever it wants 1ST Apple has proven this , Lenovo has proven this , Playing hard ball with intel in this market Is dumbest thing I ever seen So they won't recieve product until Intel wants to ship it . This company better pray that AMD doesn't get backhanded by intel once again , Or their future is bleek at best , Intel doesn't have to make behind closed door deal . They just need to punish those who cross them . AMDs referrance company didn't have to say what they said and how they said it when we will see product that shows that statement false . Bad move by them . They best Hope AMD succeeds but I doubt , AMD 64 woke the sleeping giant , And intel murdered them . They will do the same in this space

Abusive market practices are fantastic for capitalism! Wooh, go Intel! /s

Guess any skepticism you had towards Intel strong arming to stay on top during P4 days has left you.

 

[NTMBK]

I question how Haswell is a viable competitor in 2013 - isn't NB still a separate chip consuming 3W all on its own?

Not the ultrabook/tablet versions- the desktop and laptop versions still have a two package APU/PCH arrangement though.