Teens to be charged as adults in rock-overpass death.

[Darwin333]

2/5 get to do no time at all, they didnt try to stop the others, they were just decided to be mentally unfit. is it really fair and just to throw the book at the others?

especially considering that the likely reason the other 2 were able to weasel out trial is because their parents spent lots and lots of money.

I just looked up a bunch of articles on this and I believe that you are reading it wrong. The lawyers of 3 of the kids requested they be tested for competency and were found to be competent. The lawyers for the other 2 did not request their clients be tested which means that all 5 will be, as of right now, standing trial. The lawyers of the first 3 kids have requested, and been granted, an additional independent evaluation which hasn't been performed yet. All 5 remain behind bars as no bond has been set yet.

 

[aigomorla]

So wait kids throws a rock and kills a man, gets 2nd degree + trialed as adults.

A man in fit of road rage gets out of car Stab's a 19yr old with a knife, only gets man slaughter and also gets released on bail the next day.
This one:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...almart-parking-lot-released-article-1.3670878

I am completely lost in how our stupid legal system works.

Since when was Rock > Knife.

 

[bshole]

, I can say that unburdened by that responsibility as you are, I could feel far more comfortable holding the kind of emotionally stimulating and vindictively gratifying hard nosed disgust for the criminality of others that you do.

A sense of justice is an evolved trait as is the sense of empathy. They are twin competing constituents of the human ego. Michael Shermer in a debate brought up a video where a man pushed a woman into the train tracks. It was utterly compelling in monitoring the reactions of another man at the scene. The bystander had a clear conflict between empathy and justice. He first moved to help the woman but stopped and instead attacked the man who had pushed her. After beating on him for a bit, he stopped again and went back to helping the woman.

SNC is obviously more of a beat the perp kind of guy and you are more of a help the victim kind of guy. I think I may be a little closer to SNC than you.

 

[SNC]

It doesn't just harm those that are in it, it significantly harms society as a whole. Is it worth harming society, potentially to the point of leaving another family with a similar loss, sheerly for revenge? As I stated in another reply to you, which you ignored, other countries take a vastly different approach to how long they incarcerate people and how they treat incarcerated people and they get vastly better results. Despite that you seem to be hell-bent on continuing our draconian system to the detriment of our society for some bullshit notion that our justice system should be used for revenge and it will lessen this family's loss.

What country is that? Seems to me that based on per capita stats the US is FAR from the top of the list of crimes committed. So perhaps our approach is a bit better than the others in preventing crime in the first place.

I'd be interested in seeing the same stats you are using to draw you conclusions.

 

[SNC]

What about the 98.8% that don't commit another murder? They should rot because an absurdly small percentage fucks up again?

So how about you tell those 9000+ people that are without a father, husband, wife, mother or child that they are an absurdly small issue and that there loss is insignificant in the big picture.

 

[Darwin333]

So how about you tell those 9000+ people that are without a father, husband, wife, mother or child that they are an absurdly small issue and that there loss is insignificant in the big picture.

It was 3,000+ not 9,000 and the fact remains that 98.8% of them never committed another murder. Using your logic we should psychologically screen people and those found to have the potential to murder people should be locked up just in case since you are OK with keeping 98.8% of people in jail for life because 1.2% will commit murder.

 

[snarfbot]

I just looked up a bunch of articles on this and I believe that you are reading it wrong. The lawyers of 3 of the kids requested they be tested for competency and were found to be competent. The lawyers for the other 2 did not request their clients be tested which means that all 5 will be, as of right now, standing trial. The lawyers of the first 3 kids have requested, and been granted, an additional independent evaluation which hasn't been performed yet. All 5 remain behind bars as no bond has been set yet.

yes you are correct my apologies for taking the conversation off topic.

 

[SNC]

It was 3,000+ not 9,000 and the fact remains that 98.8% of them never committed another murder. Using your logic we should psychologically screen people and those found to have the potential to murder people should be locked up just in case since you are OK with keeping 98.8% of people in jail for life because 1.2% will commit murder.

3000+ were killed leaving an average of 9000 people without their loved ones. Where did I ever say we should screen people? I specifically said those COMMITTED of murder, not those likely. The report that was referenced in this thread said that 1.2% of the 272,000 MURDERS were back in the system charged with another murder. This number is from just 3 states, not the nation, and only over a 3 year period. But hey if your OK with thousands of people being killed every year by people who have proven that that they are ready, willing and able to take a life but are let out because you are worried they might become bad people while locked up, who am I to argue.

 

[Darwin333]

What country is that? Seems to me that based on per capita stats the US is FAR from the top of the list of crimes committed. So perhaps our approach is a bit better than the others in preventing crime in the first place.

I'd be interested in seeing the same stats you are using to draw you conclusions.

Norway is the perfect example of how incarceration should be handled, its prison system is designed to inflict as little pain as possible and they have a recidivism rate of 20%, Austrailia also has a vastly superior system in place with a recidivism rate in the 20's. Hell even Singapore with its draconian sentencing practice has the vast majority of its prisoners in halfway houses. Ironically the last two were originally penal colonies.

The US has the most inmates per capita (and total) than ANY other country and we have roughly 2/3rds more inmates than any 1st world country that I'd actually want to compare us to. We have more murders per capita than any other 1st world country, for refernce we are higher than Rwanda, Liberia, and Libya. So no, it does not seem like our approach is better than others in preventing crime unless you want to start comparing the US to Venezuela and El Salvador...

Anyone with any sort of objectivity can look at the numbers of other first world countries and see that our justice system is severely broken.

 

[Darwin333]

yes you are correct my apologies for taking the conversation off topic.

No worries, glad I could impart some knowledge to you my friend. Gaining and giving knowledge is the reason I am here and enjoy debating in general.

 

[Darwin333]

3000+ were killed leaving an average of 9000 people without their loved ones. Where did I ever say we should screen people? I specifically said those COMMITTED of murder, not those likely. The report that was referenced in this thread said that 1.2% of the 272,000 MURDERS were back in the system charged with another murder. This number is from just 3 states, not the nation, and only over a 3 year period. But hey if your OK with thousands of people being killed every year by people who have proven that that they are ready, willing and able to take a life but are let out because you are worried they might become bad people while locked up, who am I to argue.

I'm not ok with punishing 98.8% of them more severely for the actions of 1.2%. As a completely separate issue I am also not in the least ok with how we treat all of our prisoners, regardless of the crime they committed.

The insanely large use of literal psychological torture, long-term isolation, alone is horrendous. One of the Americans that was imprisoned in Iran after being caught on the Iran-Iraq border spent 4 months of his 26 months in an Iranian prison in isolation. He said that he woke up every day in isolation praying that he would be interrogated by the freaking Iranians just to have some form of human contact, just to give you an idea of how bad it is. It has been proven to cause long-term and even permanent psychological and mental health problems yet we have over 80,000 people in isolation right now. One guy in California has been in isolation for 42 years!

That is just one of 1,000 things wrong with how we treat our prisoners. Our out of control judicial system and absurdly lengthy prison terms is another problem altogether. Unfortunately we have a lot of people who are like you in this country and support both, fortunately we have more and more people like me every day and we are starting to see some progress albeit slowly.

 

[Moonbeam]

A sense of justice is an evolved trait as is the sense of empathy. They are twin competing constituents of the human ego. Michael Shermer in a debate brought up a video where a man pushed a woman into the train tracks. It was utterly compelling in monitoring the reactions of another man at the scene. The bystander had a clear conflict between empathy and justice. He first moved to help the woman but stopped and instead attacked the man who had pushed her. After beating on him for a bit, he stopped again and went back to helping the woman.

SNC is obviously more of a beat the perp kind of guy and you are more of a help the victim kind of guy. I think I may be a little closer to SNC than you.

I don't think I agree with this. I see empathy and justice as inborn inherent traits we share with other animals especially our closest relatives that add survival value to higher level social mammals. For me therefore, most of the alterations in our inborn capacity will incline toward suppression or lack of development of those capacities due to abnormal environmental influences, nurture, not nature.

I think, also therefore, that you are off in your characterization that a sense of justice involves a desire for punishment. That is what I would regard as justice at a low level of expression. A more nuanced expression of justice can only develop as an application, say as an expression of rules of behavior and or law, as I have mentioned earlier and supported by others who have posted in this thread, that is to say, as a function of experience, data, and reason, intuition and feeling weighed on a practiced scale with a focus on relevance. Justice is the expression of empathy applied to social interactions and are not essentially different, in my opinion.

I also believe that I am far more sophisticated intellectually than I am emotionally meaning I would not trust myself to practice what I preach. I was born and raised in a culture full of rage and am not pain free. That can easily mean that despite what my words may say, I might actually be more 'beat the perp' than you are.

What I might be able to do that is more atypical, owing to exposure to pretty good teaching and long practice, is to see a few things about myself that others might be less inclined to admit. Self hate makes us monsters and I know I hate myself. The fact that I am a monster is pretty much guaranteed. In some cases I have actually seen it. And we are the world. That means the world we experience is a mirror of out inner state.

It also means that if you have a punitive attitude toward others, you have a punitive attitude toward yourself. But then too if you have a sloppy indifference to the injustices of others it may imply a lack of personal responsibility. This is why the subject is complicated and requires balance and wisdom, among other reasons.

 

[I Snort Flour]

This happened close to where I live and drive. Shortly thereafter ANOTHER young man was killed by ANOTHER set of young men. This time, throwing a fucking sandbag off the overpass and killing this one. Here is a link to that story:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2017/12/26/sandbag-death-75-ohio/981846001/



I remember being young. I remember throwing eggs and small stones at cars on the freeway from the sides. Not dropping off the overpass but same principle, different trajectories. I remember that maybe killing someone wasn't even a thought.... though anything could have happened. Would not have been from blunt force trauma but from being startled and crashing, etc...

These two stories, however... It is really hard to think of how ANY kid older than 7 or 8 wouldn't know that dropping sandbags or a 6 pound "rock" could and very well might kill someone.

This is no rock kids:

That's a fucking boulder... I would have NEVER in a million years past the age of maybe 4 or 5 thought tossing someone like that onto a car travelling 70 mph would be an okay thing...

Whoever tossed the sandbag and the small boulder need to pay for taking a life. I doubt intent can be proven. I doubt they were trying to kill anyone. They still need to go to jail for a long time...

Umm I love being the bearer of bad news so I decided to reply to this inaccurate statement and 1 other person. As you can see in the pic there is somebody's toe near the "boulder" and this gives you a rough idea of the scale of the "boulder" and it is no where close to being 10.1" in diameter which means it doesn't classify as a boulder it is still a rock. It's kinda like calling Pluto a planet. Yes it's close to being one and up until the time at which we were able to getting a more detailed look at it and redefined the definition for what constitutes a planet it was believed to be 1 for centuries but it wasn't. What I'm trying to say is that medium sized rock may look big in the picture but it really is only 5-7" in diameter and most likely weighs around 5 lbs it's really not that shocking a teenage kid threw it off a bridge as they probably done this hundreds of times before and never thought anything worse would happen than damaging a vehicle. I would be willing to bet the sandbag was a small 3lb bag they use to hold down road construction signs.

 

[I Snort Flour]

What about the 98.8% that don't commit another murder? They should rot because an absurdly small percentage fucks up again?

Roughly 2/3s of all prisoners released will end up back in the system within 3 years of being released from jail. Other countries that don't "toss the fucking key" and treat their prisoners humanely have recidivism rates of 20%. Your way is simply bad for society as a whole, causes MORE pain and suffering, costs a shitload more money, destroys more lives, fucks up more families, and overall just treats people horribly. The only arguments I have yet to see you make is one of revenge and they have a 1.2% chance of murdering someone else if released. Personally I think that number is a lot lower than the average since they aren't your "average" murderers, I don't for one second believe that they set out to kill someone.

I would love to know where you guys got these figures from. Where did you get 2/3 of all prisoners will end up back in prison in 3 years? First off that's wildly inaccurate as crimes and incarceration levels very state to state and country to country. If this statement was true 66%+ of the usa would currently be in jail. 1 there isn't enough space for that many prisoners and 2 even if you got a more realistic number <10% most of the time they didn't even do anything to deserve it as probation/parole officer's make them obtain 40 hour a week job and pay up to hundreds of dollars a month to stay out of jail and have a place to live but nobody hires felons for full time work unless the job is so bad that the owner should be imprisoned and as far as housing goes if you got a felony or just bad credit and there is nobody to help your just screwed where i live as you can't rent or buy a home and there are 0 homeless shelters in operation as of fall of last year so they end up getting shoved deeper into the hole they can't climb out of. If you can't or won't give criminals another chance to fix their lives the only way they got to survive is to do crimes. Besides that our great nation has gone forward looking down the barrel on people who use drugs and put them in jail (even though most illegal drugs are relatively safe and with a little education, patience, free treatments and will power these lowlife drug addicts draining our economy by sitting in jails could be regular people contributing to society and what they do on their own time is their business as the only people they are going to hurt are themselves) while simultaneously creating drugs in labs, pushing them out like candy especially to the older people with some of the world's most addictive and life changing substances without any concern about the well being of the customer as they have proven time and time again creating a stronger more addicting synthetic opioid to push onto people after the government bans their current product. We have known the horrors of heroin and what it does to those who get addicted but yet every 5 years they release a man made more potent version of it while claiming every single time they have eliminated or greatly reduced the addiction which occurs but it's all a lie to line their pockets with cash.
So i ask you who has killed more people pharmacist or teen are boys throwing stuff off of a bridge.

 

[umbrella39]

Umm I love being the bearer of bad news so I decided to reply to this inaccurate statement and 1 other person. As you can see in the pic there is somebody's toe near the "boulder" and this gives you a rough idea of the scale of the "boulder" and it is no where close to being 10.1" in diameter which means it doesn't classify as a boulder it is still a rock. It's kinda like calling Pluto a planet. Yes it's close to being one and up until the time at which we were able to getting a more detailed look at it and redefined the definition for what constitutes a planet it was believed to be 1 for centuries but it wasn't. What I'm trying to say is that medium sized rock may look big in the picture but it really is only 5-7" in diameter and most likely weighs around 5 lbs it's really not that shocking a teenage kid threw it off a bridge as they probably done this hundreds of times before and never thought anything worse would happen than damaging a vehicle. I would be willing to bet the sandbag was a small 3lb bag they use to hold down road construction signs.

I love being the bearer of good news... You get a nice PLONK for your new sock puppet. Now run along and go fuck off...

 

[Darwin333]

I would love to know where you guys got these figures from. Where did you get 2/3 of all prisoners will end up back in prison in 3 years? First off that's wildly inaccurate as crimes and incarceration levels very state to state and country to country. If this statement was true 66%+ of the usa would currently be in jail. 1 there isn't enough space for that many prisoners and 2 even if you got a more realistic number <10%

We have increased our prison population by 500% over the last 40 years and not because we have more crime/criminals. During the same time crime rates have actually plummeted.

most of the time they didn't even do anything to deserve it as probation/parole officer's make them obtain 40 hour a week job and pay up to hundreds of dollars a month to stay out of jail and have a place to live but nobody hires felons for full time work unless the job is so bad that the owner should be imprisoned and as far as housing goes if you got a felony or just bad credit and there is nobody to help your just screwed where i live as you can't rent or buy a home and there are 0 homeless shelters in operation as of fall of last year so they end up getting shoved deeper into the hole they can't climb out of. If you can't or won't give criminals another chance to fix their lives the only way they got to survive is to do crimes. Besides that our great nation has gone forward looking down the barrel on people who use drugs and put them in jail (even though most illegal drugs are relatively safe and with a little education, patience, free treatments and will power these lowlife drug addicts draining our economy by sitting in jails could be regular people contributing to society and what they do on their own time is their business as the only people they are going to hurt are themselves) while simultaneously creating drugs in labs, pushing them out like candy especially to the older people with some of the world's most addictive and life changing substances without any concern about the well being of the customer as they have proven time and time again creating a stronger more addicting synthetic opioid to push onto people after the government bans their current product. We have known the horrors of heroin and what it does to those who get addicted but yet every 5 years they release a man made more potent version of it while claiming every single time they have eliminated or greatly reduced the addiction which occurs but it's all a lie to line their pockets with cash.
So i ask you who has killed more people pharmacist or teen are boys throwing stuff off of a bridge.

Did you read the 2nd half of the post you quoted or any of my other posts on the subject? You and I are on the same page so keep the outrage just direct it at someone else.

 

[I Snort Flour]

So you are asking if my position on the others should change because 2 of the guys get to go home? I think I answered that, they got lucky, the rest should spend the rest of their lives in jail. JUST as the ones that got to go home should be doing. I'm not sure what you're missing. My position does not change because someone is not getting charged. Is it fair? Hell no! The ones that are free should be doing time, it still does not change what I think should happen to the ones that are being charged. But since I am not the one who makes that decision, why does it matter to you what I think?

Ok i think i can explain what they have been trying to tell you with a comparison. Your sitting at 4 way stop with 3 other people which all came to a stop at the sign, out of no where a truck driven by somebody You've known in your lifetime which was drunk plows through the intersection killing a pedestrian. Do you and the other 3 drivers in that 4 way stop all go to jail for life sentences even though 3 of you didn't kill the person but tough titties because you were their friend and we're completely unaware they were going to drive drunk? Answer is hell no you don't.
You can't jail a child longer than they have physically been alive and expect anything positive to come out of their release from jail in 20-25 years later as they will not know how to do anything except what they learned in prison. They won't be able to get a job, know how to pay bills, how to treat others, buy food or anything as they will never be taught by a loving family. Avg life span of a male is 80 years old and it costs something like $100 a week per prisoner so that's 66 years of jail time x 3 prisoners as they will have a 75% chance of being career prisoners at that point. 66x3=198x52=10296x100=$1,029,600.00 is the cost to ruin 3 teenagers lives which just seems stupid to less of people as you could take that money and build a curved or enclosed chain link fence on their overpasses which not only stops anybody else from getting killed like this, but also prevents suicide jumpers from being able to end it there and then while saving you a cool million dollars which you could use for support groups, education, treatments, road repairs or anything else you feel your tax money would be better spent on. Just don't seem right to lock up 3 kids and have to flip such a large bill so other kids can continue throwing stuff off of the overpass.

Rantings of a mad man who's bored below:
Honestly if it were up to me i would jail their mayor, senators and representatives for not having the common sense of enclosing a walkway on the overpass which since the first overpass was built there has been young boys spitting loogies on cars and chucking things over the side not thinking of the risk or consequences. This was an extremely cheap and avoidable scenario but they wanted to keep the money for themselves so as far as I'm concerned they should be treated as we now treat drunk drivers and if somebody's blood is on your hands due to greed, laziness, Idiocracy or just don't give a fluke then you should be held accountable. Just because it's your job and you suck at it don't make you any less liable. It's bad enough these politicians and big business can cause lots of damage and thousands of death's and nobody is held accountable and there is no outrage from the community but 3 kids being kids mess up bad 1 time in their lives and it's all over for them while we got presidents and big business who sold cocaine to the ghettos creating a huge drug epidemic, committed high treason, embezzlement, threaten others well being for asking journalistic questions, violating geneva convention and it's always forgiven because they have money. This country is just so f'd in the ace hole that i can't wait for China to take over or our government to finally collapse as its dangling by thread and all these suicide bombers, whack jobs pissed at the irs and gov and fly their plane into it, Mass murders with guns and bombs, electing Donald Trump and so on hasn't given away how our country's people are frustrated and ready for it to come to an end as they are having to pay more for the inflation and cost of living at the end of every year which takes their job 5 years to compensate for 1. If something isn't done in 10 years half the population will be homeless just watch. I sure as hell can't make it on what they pay vs the cost of housing since the oil boom picked up and left years ago leaving us with outrageous housing costs and food prices while the wages are similar to that of 10 years ago before the oil boom happened and a person didn't need a high credit score, be older than 25 and no felonies to move into a $10k or less trailer in a trailer park which homeless bums look at and say man I'm glad i don't live there. You can't keep cutting taxes for millionaires and pretending that a big portion is going to lower income families when all you did was take money from other important programs to cover up your fake tax cut just to get a lousy $1-2k back at the end of the year. Some day these stupid poor Republicans you need to win your election will figure out your all full of shit but maybe not as i live in a republican state with most die hard Republicans riding the poverty line while being so retarded and party biased they believe every lie out of their mouths and that healthcare is the worst thing to happen in history as i watch them pawn off their silver coins for booze money because they can't get enough hours or a good paying job with you can live on.
Sorry about that went off on a rant there but my point is valid in the last year over 10 politicians and every president dating back to Ronald Reagan should be currently sitting in jail for crimes far worse than involuntary manslaughter but nobody talks or gets upset about it. Maybe it's just because I've been falsy imprisoned and got the screws taken to me in both the usa and once in Mexico for touching a marijuana seed from a guy who wouldn't leave me alone for 2 straight hours which just tossed it into my hand without consent just before police ripped is out of the cab and took us to jail where i say for a few hours until they came back with my bail which ironically was exactly the amount of money me and my bro had on us for shopping and cigs. The only thing jails really do is teach them how to be better criminals and after being treated like an animal your care and sympathy for the world has been stripped away from you and all you see is the bad in people which makes your life worse.

 

[I Snort Flour]

We have increased our prison population by 500% over the last 40 years and not because we have more crime/criminals. During the same time crime rates have actually plummeted.

Did you read the 2nd half of the post you quoted or any of my other posts on the subject? You and I are on the same page so keep the outrage just direct it at someone else.

No i hear you and i know your on the same page i just pointed out your inaccurate figure then trained off into a rant because stories like this make me pissy as i know their pain but not as well as they are going to know it as i am always out within a couple days to a week. Prison population is growing and 75% of it is due to us locking up non violent drug users for 5-25 years at a time which doesn't help them manage their problem or find the cause to need to use so much but 2/3 of them will not go back in the first 5 years after they get released as they have the most expensive an ineffective way of teaching you control and will power which could have been done in less than 3 months but we have to flip the bill for 3 years. This is just my state I'm talking about we don't have any real crime that's why our cops harass and douche while they have no clue what protect and serve means. Our prisons are filled with mainly non violent drug users and alcoholics with too many dui's.

 

[I Snort Flour]

So how about you tell those 9000+ people that are without a father, husband, wife, mother or child that they are an absurdly small issue and that there loss is insignificant in the big picture.

Dude over 9000 people have died to opioid overdose in the course of just a few months and we never lock up the doctor. Seems to me doctors kill more people than anybody else so let's just lock up all the doctors for life. Hell even Ronald Reagan was the direct result of thousands of dead people with all the cocaine he and Olley North brought into the states to fund gorilla warfare which became our biggest enemies after they won. Why is it only poor people have to face jail time and why are they given the toughest sentences and more in fines, requirements and fines/fees?

 

[bshole]

We have increased our prison population by 500% over the last 40 years and not because we have more crime/criminals. During the same time crime rates have actually plummeted..

Some would say the crime rate has plummeted because we are jailing so many people. Others would point the correlation between legalized abortion and the falling crime rate. Some would point out the correlation between the rise of instant communication and the falling crime rate. It is pretty murky to me. Why do you think the crime rate fell?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Some would say the crime rate has plummeted because we are jailing so many people. Others would point the correlation between legalized abortion and the falling crime rate. Some would point out the correlation between the rise of instant communication and the falling crime rate. It is pretty murky to me. Why do you think the crime rate fell?

I suspect that less lead in the environment played a role

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2017/06/01/new-evidence-that-lead-exposure-increases-crime/

 

[I Snort Flour]

I was not part of a group when I threw eggs and small rocks at cars. I did that by myself. I didn't need to deindividuate or need the mob mentality to cross the line! Mostly I was bored and did stupid things which were sometimes illegal. Like throwing rocks at cars...

I do, however, remember being part of groups when I was a kid where things escalated and experience firsthand mob/group mentality in action. Had I been part of a group that had started throwing rocks at cars and one of the kids starting throwing bigger and bigger things up to the point of that boulder, I'd have tried to stop them. If that didn't work I would have bolted knowing that this idiot is going to end up killing someone and I'm not going down with them.

Let's be real folks, the Genesee County Sheriff’s Office said 20 rocks were found, including one that weighed 20 pounds. 20 POUNDS!!! If I threw a 20 pound boulder off an overpass and it missed but my buddy tosses the next one weighing only 6 pounds and it literally destroys this guys skull and chest what should my crime be?

Let me sweeten the pot, they also threw a shopping cart, a chair and a tire iron off the overpass hitting other cars but not killing any one. I find it hard to believe there was an innocent one in the group. Again, even though I was a little shit growing up, I would never have been 2 miles from any of my friends who were doing something like this. I'd like to think I had a little more common sense...

I understand where your coming from but how are they supposed to get their participation award if they didn't help their friends. This is what not spanking your child, meaningless awards, anti bullying programs and not keeping score turns your kids into. Remember when you were outraged with free range parents who spanked their child well their kids are at home doing homework because they weren't stupid enough to throw something off of a bridge and wait around for the cops to show up.

 

[I Snort Flour]

Some would say the crime rate has plummeted because we are jailing so many people. Others would point the correlation between legalized abortion and the falling crime rate. Some would point out the correlation between the rise of instant communication and the falling crime rate. It is pretty murky to me. Why do you think the crime rate fell?

Our crime rate never falls and 80% of the major crimes are caused by the trash the oil fields brought in and left them living in their rv's penny-less because they spent all that big money in $1 apples at Walmart and $800 a month to park on a Farmers deserted feild with no electricity or water.
We had basically 0 gangs MM moved brick weed through but never caused any troubles before the oil fields now we got them all and crime on the outside borders of our city is picking up. I miss the good old days where somebody would steal your car from a bar and the cops would bring you home your deserted car by the end of the week as they usually ended up in a open field at the reservation with minimal to 0 damage done

 

[I Snort Flour]

I suspect that less lead in the environment played a role

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2017/06/01/new-evidence-that-lead-exposure-increases-crime/

I disagree i would put all my money on it being because of the internet giving us an unlimited porn box that we take with us everywhere we go and good old fashioned puberty just kept us all busy until we got to lazy to misbehave.

 

[SNC]

Ok i think i can explain what they have been trying to tell you with a comparison. Your sitting at 4 way stop with 3 other people which all came to a stop at the sign, out of no where a truck driven by somebody You've known in your lifetime which was drunk plows through the intersection killing a pedestrian. Do you and the other 3 drivers in that 4 way stop all go to jail for life sentences even though 3 of you didn't kill the person but tough titties because you were their friend and we're completely unaware they were going to drive drunk?

I stopped reading because if the reas of what you typed is a stupid unresponsive as this, there is no need. NOW, if the 3 of us were at the bar watching the driver drink to the point of impairment, hand him the keys, get into the truck with him as the driver, and allow him to pull out and drive while not stopping him and he killed a pedestrian - then yes we should be charged. I don't know why are feel the need to make up a seriously flawed scenario that has nothing to do with the current subject, Are you attempting to point out a flaw in my thinking?