Teenager shot dead after playing loud music

[Capt Caveman]

https://www.facebook.com/bpssanantonio

Look at the picture at the top right. That is what lanes 1-4 look like. The blue markings are for 7 and 15 yards (there is a 3 yard marking closer but blocked by wall you can't see it's right where the cardboard backing is hanging from in that picture). The backstop is 25 yards. You can push the target all the way to the backstop if you want. The last two are twice as far.

But call me a liar if you don't like what the picture shows.

From this pic, looking at the markings, I would guess that those lanes are 15yds.

 

[Geosurface]

My personal opinion is that HumblePie is probably telling the truth about the gun thing, but I admit I say this from a position of already feeling positively toward him, and being ignorant about firearms.

If he IS bullshitting, frankly I consider that well within normal male braggadocio, fish stories, etc.

I personally try to be completely honest about my life, but I don't judge those who exaggerate to boost their self-esteem particularly harshly, if the matter is pretty much completely irrelevant.

 

[Orignal Earl]

I personally try to be completely honest about my life, but I don't judge those who exaggerate to boost their self-esteem particularly harshly, if the matter is pretty much completely irrelevant.

Where you a moderator on some popular message boards when you were 15 years old?

 

[HumblePie]

The furthest blue marking you see is 15 yrds. I also did more looking up before I left work last night and another site people were saying it's 8 lanes not 6. Ooops, thought it was 6 lanes. Lanes 7-8 are the long lanes and 1-6 are the normal 25 yard lanes. CHL class is held all the time there. The furthest they push that target is to the last blue line at 15 yards. They do not push the target all the way to the back stop for the CHL course. That's how I know the backstop on those lanes is 25 yards. The last two lanes are literally twice as long as the other 6.

*EDIT* drew on the pics to show what those blue lines mean. No CHL class pushes the target to the back stop on any lane in there. I've watched several from different classes and instructors. There are 3 blue lines on lanes 1-6. They mark 3 (cut off in photo), 7, and 15 yards. Which is the required shooting distances for CHL course here in Texas. Again, the last 2 lanes are twice as long as the first 6 where the backstop is at.

As for filming it screw that because:

1) None of the indoor ranges around here I know of let you bring cameras into them
2) Outdoor is effing cold right now and there are more variables that mess up bullet flight at that distance for a pistol (cross wind)
3) Even if I did go to an outdoor range in a month or so and film it; I highly doubt anyone here would still believe it. They would say it was a camera trick, or that I tried a hundred shots previously and only submitted the one that showed a lucky shot.
4) Why would I care about internet people and earning internet brownie points off idiots that already don't have a clue? Nothing I show to people like bshole would effing matter. He probably doesn't even believe I still have 20/11 vision at my age of 35 going on 36. (recently checked since my wife needed new prescription and I was curious so asked the doc to check me. Covered on my vision plan.

So with all those, who cares?

 

[Geosurface]

Where you a moderator on some popular message boards when you were 15 years old?

I was heavily into online debate about religious issues when I was 15, mostly via IRC (Internet Relay Chat.)

I was head moderator at some messageboards which were significant in size on a well known site (within a certain admittedly narrow cultural context) when I was oh, I guess probably 19-22 or so?

I believe that is how I represented those aspects of my earlier online history in the post you are hearkening back to now. If I switched the dates around it was entirely accidental and no deception was intended. However, I strongly suspect that it is you who have flipped the ages around.

You are welcome to try to dredge up that post if you want, so we can find out for sure, though personally I don't give a shit and can't imagine why you would.

 

[Geosurface]

Hey by the way all, I think Dunn is mere minutes from testifying.

Good streaming link here: http://www.wildabouttrial.com/trial_videos/michael-dunn-live-stream/

 

[Orignal Earl]

I was heavily into online debate about religious issues when I was 15, mostly via IRC (Internet Relay Chat.)

I was head moderator at some messageboards which were significant in size on a well known site (within a certain admittedly narrow cultural context) when I was oh, I guess probably 19-22 or so?

I believe that is how I represented those aspects of my earlier online history in the post you are hearkening back to now. If I switched the dates around it was entirely accidental and no deception was intended. However, I strongly suspect that it is you who have flipped the ages around.

You are welcome to try to dredge up that post if you want, so we can find out for sure, though personally I don't give a shit and can't imagine why you would.

Because when I mentioned it you denied you said it.

 

[HumblePie]

HumblePie, No and No.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...e_why_it_was_too_easy_for_him_to_get_off.html

In Florida, as in most states—even the ones that don’t have Stand Your Ground—the prosecution in a criminal case has the burden to disprove self-defense, beyond a reasonable doubt, once the defendant produces some evidence of self-defense. If the other person is dead, and there are no witnesses, as long as you tell the police, “He started it and I thought he was reaching for a gun” you have created some evidence that you acted in self-defense. And at that point, prosecutors have the burden of proof to show otherwise. Zimmerman was acquitted because the state couldn’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman started the fight.

In fact, the jury CANNOT even be given the self defense instruction unless the DEFENDANT produces some evidence of self evidence.

The main difference between Zimmerman and Dunn is that it was easy for Zimmerman to put on evidence (through the police) of self defense that he was acting in self defense because there were no witnesses to contradict the assertion. Here, there are three others in the car. For that very same reason, I think we are going to see Mr. Dunn on the stand tomorrow trying to make a case for self defense.

No, all one has to do is say it was self defense and then not say a word. At all. Or even say I was standing my ground in Florida and that is it. The police can't even arrest the person without some evidence that it might not be self defense. And then they have to have it granted. The police couldn't arrest Zimmerman, and should have ever, because they had no evidence the shooting wasn't justified (which it was).

In Florida, and most states, all one has to say was that the act of harming another person was self defense. Nothing more. There is no legal requirement to produce anything further. Naturally, a defendant does tend to do extra things like produce evidence for self defense, but it is NOT a legal requirement.

 

[HumblePie]

I agree. At this point, the only way the jury will get a self-defense instruction is if Dunn takes the stand, whereupon the prosecution will likely skewer him. Quite frankly, I think it's too late for Dunn to even try for a plea bargain.

This case has so few parallels to the Zimmerman case, I'm really sick of the comparisons. Say what you feel like about Zimmerman, he did everything right if you want to be able to claim self-defense. Dunn literally did everything wrong.

HAHAHA, deluded like in the Zimmerman case. Are you like Airdata that is going to claim Dunn has to take the stand or he's guilty too?

Dunn has already claimed self defense. That's all there is for the jury to be read the self defense instructions before deliberations. Dunn doesn't need to take the stand at all. Wow some people are dense around here and haven't learned from history.

 

[Orignal Earl]

The furthest blue marking you see is 15 yrds. I also did more looking up before I left work last night and another site people were saying it's 8 lanes not 6. Ooops, thought it was 6 lanes. Lanes 7-8 are the long lanes and 1-6 are the normal 25 yard lanes. CHL class is held all the time there. The furthest they push that target is to the last blue line at 15 yards. They do not push the target all the way to the back stop for the CHL course. That's how I know the backstop on those lanes is 25 yards. The last two lanes are literally twice as long as the other 6.

*EDIT* drew on the pics to show what those blue lines mean. No CHL class pushes the target to the back stop on any lane in there. I've watched several from different classes and instructors. There are 3 blue lines on lanes 1-6. They mark 3 (cut off in photo), 7, and 15 yards. Which is the required shooting distances for CHL course here in Texas. Again, the lanes 2 lanes are twice as long as the first 6 where the backstop is at.

You can't pop over there, or go somewhere out of town and do some of this fancy shooting on video for us?

 

[Geosurface]

Because when I mentioned it you denied you said it.

You're just reinforcing that you almost certainly misunderstood the original post because I know for a fact you misunderstood what you're calling a "denial."

I told you you were wrong about me being a forum moderator at 15 (because I was not one then.) I didn't go into any more detail than that, because as you and I both can see at this very moment, the more a person engages with you, particularly on issues like this, the further down the rabbit hole of bullshit and distraction and personal insult one gets.

Starting to understand why I've been trying to avoid replying to you?

 

[bshole]

Humble,

The reason I know you are lying is because of the barrel length of a P238. You said you could hit a quarter at 50 yd. With that weapon, it would be damn near impossible to hit a quarter at 25 yards, much less 50. BARREL LENGTH determines ACCURACY. Jesus christ, its not rocket science. Gawd, you don't have to take my word for it, ask any gun expert. I suppose all the employees at the store are lying...

30 feet is the outer limits of the consistancy range (and consequently the effective range) of any caliber of pistol with the barrel length of a P238.

Here is the place I shoot:

www.mcmillershootingcenter.com
Feel free to contact them and ask them if your "accomplishment" is actually possible.

Here is the premier gun site on the web. Feel free to post your "accomplishment" there. They will laugh their asses off.
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/guns-10/

I have a handgun with the same barrel length as yours. At 25 yards, my shot pattern could be measured in feet, not inches, I only tried it a few times and it was a joke. At 10 yards, I am reasonably accurate but I am not shooting quarters.

Just admit you lied and get over it.

 

[HumblePie]

You can't pop over there, or go somewhere out of town and do some of this fancy shooting on video for us?

I made an edit to my previous post. But 1) It's an hour drive now at least to bass pro for me. 2) I don't have my membership so it would be $10 and an appointment to get in. 3) No other indoor range I know of has a 50 yard lane nearby. 4) I don't think they allow cameras inside although at the time I knew Lee the range master well enough I probably could convince him to turn away from the monitor for a moment or two while I filmed but I wouldn't want to even try to ask that just in case it put him in a bad position. 5) Why should I have to prove anything like that to an idiot on an internet forum?

 

[Orignal Earl]

Starting to understand why I've been trying to avoid replying to you?

Probably because I lol at all the circles you run in and hoops you jump through.
Then I throw a comment like " needs more mommy titty " at you lots of times when you start up on one of your inferior races posts

 

[Orignal Earl]

5) Why should I have to prove anything like that to an idiot on an internet forum?

It would be fun no?
You are a deadly shot if what you say is true

 

[Geosurface]

Dunn swearing in as witness now.

 

[bshole]

Dunn swearing in as witness now.

Damn dude, that is shocking. Risky risky risky.....

 

[Daverino]

HAHAHA, deluded like in the Zimmerman case. Are you like Airdata that is going to claim Dunn has to take the stand or he's guilty too?

Dunn has already claimed self defense. That's all there is for the jury to be read the self defense instructions before deliberations. Dunn doesn't need to take the stand at all. Wow some people are dense around here and haven't learned from history.

How dense are you?

In order for 'self-defense' to be claimed, someone in the courtroom has to get up on the stand and state it. In the Zimmerman trial, the police did that for Zimmerman. Therefore Zimmerman didn't need to testify.

In the trial, though NOBODY ON THE STAND has testified that Dunn was defending himself. EVERYBODY ON THE STAND has testified that Dunn was the aggressor. No argument for self-defense has yet been made in court. The only way for it to be introduced is for Dunn to testify himself. What Dunn has said to the press so far is entirely irrelevant. He has not 'claimed self defense' because that claim has not been admitted in court. Either Dunn takes the stand or he has no self-defense claim.

 

[HumblePie]

It would be fun no?
You are a deadly shot if what you say is true

I said if I take my time and do what I can to make an easy shot, I can shoot a quarter area with my p238. That's not the same as shooting on the fly, in an adrenaline scenario, and/or while moving. Which was the point I was trying to talk about.

 

[HumblePie]

How dense are you?

In order for 'self-defense' to be claimed, someone in the courtroom has to get up on the stand and state it. In the Zimmerman trial, the police did that for Zimmerman. Therefore Zimmerman didn't need to testify.

In the trial, though NOBODY ON THE STAND has testified that Dunn was defending himself. EVERYBODY ON THE STAND has testified that Dunn was the aggressor. No argument for self-defense has yet been made in court. The only way for it to be introduced is for Dunn to testify himself. What Dunn has said to the press so far is entirely irrelevant. He has not 'claimed self defense' because that claim has not been admitted in court. Either Dunn takes the stand or he has no self-defense claim.

No one in a court has to state shit you idiot. That was why Zimmerman COULD NOT BE ARRESTED originally. He had no lawyer. He just said he was standing his ground. By stating that, he was claiming legal self defense. The police had to investigate and find evidence that surmounted the claim of self defense stand your ground. They couldn't and Zimmerman was not originally arrested or charged with any crime. It wasn't until the race baiters and crump idiots got involved that made such a huge public outcry over the media (using deliberate misinformation) that pressure was made to get him charged with something.

You do realize how that worked right? Zimmerman went to no court, had no lawyer, and was not arrested because he claimed self defense with the stand your ground clause. That is ALL that is needed. Nothing more.

When charges are filed, the defendant then usually has a lawyer, or one appointed for them, that files that the defendant was acting in self defense. That's it. There is no taking a stand. There is no major court room hearing about how the defendant has to present evidence of self defense (unless in the special case of Zimmerman where if he claimed stand your ground he would have had a pretrial immunity hearing). It's obvious you don't have a clue how it works.

 

[Daverino]

I said if I take my time and do what I can to make an easy shot, I can shoot a quarter area with my p238. That's not the same as shooting on the fly, in an adrenaline scenario, and/or while moving. Which was the point I was trying to talk about.

The internet consensus on this would be bullshit:

http://vagunforum.net/handguns/opinions-sig-p238-t8837.html
http://sigtalk.com/sig-sauer-pistols/9327-p238-bs-not-bs.html

 

[spidey07]

Dumb ass. He's going to jail and will get shredded. He handled everything wrong, doesn't mean he didn't lawfully shoot in self defense.

 

[classy]

Dumb ass. He's going to jail and will get shredded. He handled everything wrong, doesn't mean he didn't lawfully shoot in self defense.

Well if he does go to jail, then he DIDN'T shoot lawfully in self defense.

 

[classy]

I said if I take my time and do what I can to make an easy shot, I can shoot a quarter area with my p238. That's not the same as shooting on the fly, in an adrenaline scenario, and/or while moving. Which was the point I was trying to talk about.

I don't know much about guns, but I just watched several videos and I would have say there is an extremely high probability you could not pull this off........................like ever.

 

[HumblePie]

Humble,

The reason I know you are lying is because of the barrel length of a P238. You said you could hit a quarter at 50 yd. With that weapon, it would be damn near impossible to hit a quarter at 25 yards, much less 50. BARREL LENGTH determines ACCURACY. Jesus christ, its not rocket science. Gawd, you don't have to take my word for it, ask any gun expert. I suppose all the employees at the store are lying...

30 feet is the outer limits of the consistancy range (and consequently the effective range) of any caliber of pistol with the barrel length of a P238.

Here is the place I shoot:

www.mcmillershootingcenter.com
Feel free to contact them and ask them if your "accomplishment" is actually possible.

Here is the premier gun site on the web. Feel free to post your "accomplishment" there. They will laugh their asses off.
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/guns-10/

I have a handgun with the same barrel length as yours. At 25 yards, my shot pattern could be measured in feet, not inches, I only tried it a few times and it was a joke. At 10 yards, I am reasonably accurate but I am not shooting quarters.

Just admit you lied and get over it.

BShole, you don't know what you think you know. Look up furthest handgun shots on google. Bob Mulden hit a balloon at 600 yards with a handgun. Senior Airman Andy Brown back in 1994 at Fairchild stopped a mass shooter spree by nailing the guy at 70+ yards with his handgun to the head of the perp. Which is a far more adrenaline situation that I would shoot in to make my shot.

There are youtube videos of people shooting hundreds of yards on targets with a handgun. Some might be fake, and others might not be. There are trick shooters like 22plinkster that makes some amazing distance shots with a 22 pistol on very small target areas, usually the size of a pinhead at 25 yards.

Call bullshit all you want because you can't do it. Just because you can't doesn't mean someone out there can't either.