Teenager shot dead after playing loud music

[HumblePie]

Hello Beavis, the defense already had it's chance to cross examine the witness. That ship has sailed my brother. If the defense had impeaching evidence, they would have brought it up in cross. So the jury KNOWS he was drunk.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...nishes-emotional-testimony-about-jordan-davis

Uhh no, the defense can recall the GF anytime before the end of the trial if they wish. If they missed something said earlier, they can go back and check on it later. Sometimes lawyers miss things in court during the trial. They routinely recheck, or at least their aids/staff does, and see if there was something they missed and need to go back to.

But keep berating me with name calling when I've not said single thing to denigrate you. See how well that helps your argument in this discussion.

 

[Geosurface]

Could be that she felt that committing perjury in a Court of Law under oath was more serious than "fibbing to the police."

Allow me to point out that the party took place like 14 months ago, and immediately prior to the most stressful event of her life. Her initial estimate of what he'd had to drink came much closer to the time of the event.

Let me also point out that this is the same woman who volunteered to police that Dunn had said "I hate that thug music" - something they could have never had any way of knowing if she hadn't told them, which harms his situation, and which if she had omitted they couldn't even get her in any way for because she could simply say she didn't remember him saying that. Yet she volunteered it.

If you watched her full testimony as I did, you got a few distinct impressions about her. She seemed to be absolutely, 100% genuine and honest - even to a fault. She seemed to care DEEPLY for Dunn and have no reason to want to worsen his situation. And perhaps most importantly, she seemed to have a less than perfect memory.

She said that the music wasn't making their car rattle, and that she couldn't hear the music when she was inside the store. This is at odds with what the state's own witnesses and the surveillance video attest to.

It is by no means inconceivable that she bumbled into a higher and less accurate estimate of how much he drank.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Anyone know offhand the prosecutors reasoning for going for murder one instead of a lesser charge?

Lesser charges of 2nd degree murder and manslaughter are included with the 1st degree murder charge.

The old shoot for the moon and hope for the best routine played often by SA Angela Corey.

 

[HumblePie]

Spray and pray. He was less than 3 feet away.

Which grouping of bullets hit where before the vehicle was moving? Hitting a moving target and doing so from across the card and while sitting down while under stress is going to change accuracy of the shot quit a bit. You know noting of guns if you do not know how accuracy falls off dramatically for a shooter not accustomed to it. I shoot at a range and can nail a quarter size area with my small caliber sig p238 at 50 yards. Not many can do that. I can't say I could hit much better under Dunn's situation as I've seen what happens to people with "good" range accuracy are forced to fire in a off the cuff situation.

 

[HumblePie]

Could be that she felt that committing perjury in a Court of Law under oath was more serious than "fibbing to the police."

If Mr. Dunn was slightly buzzed, which is admittedly questionable since we don't know how strong the drinks were or what his general tolerance is (or if she lied in court and was truthful in initial questioning), it could explain why he didn't report the shooting but waiting more hours before going to his neighbor police officer to report it.

We also don't know if he was one to become more aggressive if buzzed or not as well, while still being able to hit the broad side of an SUV.

the above is of course speculation like quite a lot of posts in this thread.

However, imo, if he was completely sober and called 9/11 within minutes after the shooting I doubt there would be as much doubt regarding his side of the story as there is now.

Anyone know offhand the prosecutors reasoning for going for murder one instead of a lesser charge?




....

There are many reasons as to why her testimony has changed.

1) It has been over a year since she gave her "fresh" testimony to the police. Many things change in time including ones own memory of events.

2) Her situation with Dunn has changed in that time. Perhaps not for the better. It is not uncommon for a witness that originally testified one what to police during interrogation to "change" their story a little when something has happened to change their bias to the defendant or plaintiff.

I'm not saying either has happened here. But that there is a discrepancy there in her two testimonies is something the defense should rectify in my opinion before the end of the trial.

 

[Geosurface]

Watching trial now. Defense is bringing on several witnesses to say Dunn has always been a peaceful man and the ones who were at the wedding are all attesting he was happy the entire time, and when he left he was in no way showing signs of intoxication whatsoever.

 

[mugs]

"May have" would be attempting to open the door. Or partially opening the door. Even so far as trying to remove his seatbelt. All those imply Jordan was attempting to exit the vehicle. The fact he didn't get out yet doesn't mean he wasn't attempting it.

Dunn stated that Jordan was threatening his life. The others in the vehicle said that Jordan was cussing loudly and angrily at Dunn, but specifically all teens in the car said the radio was so loud that they couldn't hear what Jordan was yelling at Dunn. Which means there is NO ONE to state the opposite of what Dunn claims. That Jordan was threatening his life. The prosecution must disprove that evidence which Dunn's testimony is. This is like Zimmerman and Trayvon case. TESTIMONY IS EVIDENCE. The prosecution must present evidence that disproves or counters defense evidence. If they can't do it, then the defense evidence is the only thing that stands. The prosecution right now has failed to disprove the evidence presented that Jordan was making threats on Dunn's life. It is a simple concept to understand.

Assuming Dunn testifies that Jordan Davis threatened his life, the prosecution doesn't have to disprove his testimony at all if the jury doesn't believe him. He will also be testifying about that imaginary shotgun, and there were other people who witnessed the argument and didn't hear any threats, so I think the jury will decide that Dunn is not credible.

I don't know if the prosecution will be able to use the racist ramblings in his letters from prison against him; I imagine they will not. Those letters don't help his credibility.

 

[bshole]

I shoot at a range and can nail a quarter size area with my small caliber sig p238 at 50 yards.

That is utter and complete garbage.

30 feet is the outer limits of the consistancy range (and consequently the effective range) of any caliber of pistol with the barrel length of a P238.

You obviously have never shot a handgun otherwise you would never make such a ridiculous claim. There is nobody on earth that can do what you said. It is impossible. That is one of the more outlandish claims I have run across.

 

[Geosurface]

I don't know if the prosecution will be able to use the racist ramblings in his letters from prison against him; I imagine they will not. Those letters don't help his credibility.

Ever watch Lock Up? Or any other prison documentary?

Those weren't racist ramblings, those were very natural reactions to uncomfortable realities.

 

[HomerJS]

"May have" would be attempting to open the door. Or partially opening the door. Even so far as trying to remove his seatbelt. All those imply Jordan was attempting to exit the vehicle. The fact he didn't get out yet doesn't mean he wasn't attempting it.

Dunn stated that Jordan was threatening his life. The others in the vehicle said that Jordan was cussing loudly and angrily at Dunn, but specifically all teens in the car said the radio was so loud that they couldn't hear what Jordan was yelling at Dunn. Which means there is NO ONE to state the opposite of what Dunn claims. That Jordan was threatening his life. The prosecution must disprove that evidence which Dunn's testimony is. This is like Zimmerman and Trayvon case. TESTIMONY IS EVIDENCE. The prosecution must present evidence that disproves or counters defense evidence. If they can't do it, then the defense evidence is the only thing that stands. The prosecution right now has failed to disprove the evidence presented that Jordan was making threats on Dunn's life. It is a simple concept to understand.

So he didn't get out of the car and there was no gun found. So far I see nothing imminently life threatening. Cursing at someone doesn't grant a license to kill.

If it did, that little Asian line judge at the US Open a few years ago would have been justified shooting Serena Williams in the head.

 

[Geosurface]

So he didn't get out of the car and there was no gun found. So far I see nothing imminently life threatening. Cursing at someone doesn't grant a license to kill.

If it did, that little Asian line judge at the US Open a few years ago would have been justified shooting Serena Williams in the head.

Mr. Dunn says he didn't open fire because of curse words.

 

[HumblePie]

That is utter and complete garbage.

30 feet is the outer limits of the consistancy range (and consequently the effective range) of any caliber of pistol with the barrel length of a P238.

You obviously have never shot a handgun otherwise you would never make such a ridiculous claim. There is nobody on earth that can do what you said. It is impossible. That is one of the more outlandish claims I have run across.

I do it all the time. I've even shown pics of the guns I own in the off topic thread. I could care less if you believe or not what my capabilities and aim are. I was making those shots at the bass pro shop off IH10 on their 50 yard rifle range lanes which are lanes 5 and 6. I can aim and hit a quarter size area pretty damn consistently with my p238 at 50 yards on a B27 target. Which is basically the little black center. I do have fliers though and if I speed up my shots then the groupings go wider. But if I take my time, aim, and squeeze I can make that shot damn near every time.

But obviously a gun hater like yourself has soo much knowledge amassed at what is capable and what isn't by any given shooter and conditions. Sure buddy, keep telling yourself that.

 

[HumblePie]

Assuming Dunn testifies that Jordan Davis threatened his life, the prosecution doesn't have to disprove his testimony at all if the jury doesn't believe him. He will also be testifying about that imaginary shotgun, and there were other people who witnessed the argument and didn't hear any threats, so I think the jury will decide that Dunn is not credible.

I don't know if the prosecution will be able to use the racist ramblings in his letters from prison against him; I imagine they will not. Those letters don't help his credibility.

And if the jury does that they would not be following the law. His testimony is evidence that must be used by the jury unless it can be shown that it is not as factual as it should be. Not to say the jury won't do that, but it's going to be hammered into them not to weigh the evidence based upon feelings that they can't articulate. They have to be able to state why they are disregarding Dunn's testimonial evidence.

I pointed out that a shotgun did not need there to be considered a credible threat. That camera tripod in the SUV is all that is needed for a person to misrepresent that it was a gun instead of a tripod. Long, black, and barrel looking from the right vantage point. Regardless if the tripod is a weapon or not, it only matters if it could be construed as a weapon to a reasonable person in Dunn's situation. If the prosecution can't show that a reasonable person could not construe that as a weapon in that scenario that is all Dunn needs.

Remember, like the Zimmerman case, the prosecution has the hurdle of presenting evidence that overcomes self defense. And like the Zimmerman case, if the prosecution can not present that evidence, then Dunn will walk free.

Right now, with what has been presented, the prosecution has not met that burden of proof. At least not for murder. Now if they go after Dunn and his additional shots on the SUV once it began fleeing then they might nail him for attempted murder, reckless endangerment, and other miscellaneous charges.

 

[Geosurface]

Interesting. Detective on stand now admitting that when they checked the child locks (which the lads claimed prevented Jordan from being able to open his own door, and that the driver Tommy Storns had to open the doors for other teenagers every time they stopped lol) were NOT engaged when they checked them, after the boys claimed a few days later that they had been locked.

Now, ask yourself how believable it is that four teenagers driving around trying to pick up girls and going out to malls, are going to have the two rear passengers have to fucking wait for the driver and front seat passenger to get out and release them every time they stop? Locking them in there like toddlers? You can't say "oh well maybe sometimes there are kids in there" because the damned thing can be turned on and off with a simple flip of a switch. How likely is it that the two rear passengers would tolerate such a thing, as teenage males trying to look cool and impress girls?

Now, combine the fact that it simply isn't believable, with the fact that they didn't claim it until they found out Dunn was telling cops Jordan had been opening the door, and combine it also with his best friend admitting Jordan had been working the door handle during his confrontation with Dunn, and with the fact that the police found the child locks NOT engaged when they checked.

What's it all add up to? A very strong indication that they lied about the child locks, as a way to provide an "alibi" which would make Jordan opening that door seem to have been impossible. Which in turn indicates that at least one of them knew Jordan had in fact been opening the door at or immediately prior to the time he was shot. Ask yourself why they would lie about the child locks OTHER than for this reason?

Oh and the detective also revealed that the tripod had been found under Jordan's seat, of all seats it could have been under...

 

[bshole]

I do it all the time. I've even shown pics of the guns I own in the off topic thread. I could care less if you believe or not what my capabilities and aim are. I was making those shots at the bass pro shop off IH10 on their 50 yard rifle range lanes which are lanes 5 and 6. I can aim and hit a quarter size area pretty damn consistently with my p238 at 50 yards on a B27 target. Which is basically the little black center. I do have fliers though and if I speed up my shots then the groupings go wider. But if I take my time, aim, and squeeze I can make that shot damn near every time.

But obviously a gun hater like yourself has soo much knowledge amassed at what is capable and what isn't by any given shooter and conditions. Sure buddy, keep telling yourself that.

They don't even have a 50 yd range. Keep digging....

3D ARCHERY RANGE AND GUN RANGE
Our 27 yard long, wilderness decorated archery range has thirteen 3D animals and five shooting positions. Also, customers can enjoy our 25 yards long pistol range and 100 yards long rifle range. . We have 1 rifle and 7 pistols positions (one of them is handicap accessible). Call the store for times and restrictions.

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CFPageC?appID=94&storeID=18&storeId=10151

 

[HumblePie]

They don't even have a 50 yd range. Keep digging....



http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CFPageC?appID=94&storeID=18&storeId=10151

The SA bass pro shop is 50 yards on lanes 5 and 6. As for the Dallas one, could care less.

 

[bshole]

The SA bass pro shop is 50 yards on lanes 5 and 6. As for the Dallas one, could care less.

San Antonio's longest is 25 yards. I just called and asked. Here is their contact information. Humble, you are a dishonest person.

San Antonio, TX | Bass Pro Shops
17907 IH-10 West
San Antonio, TX 78257
210-253-8800


http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s...gId=10051&langId=-1&appID=94&tab=3&storeID=46

 

[HumblePie]

San Antonio's longest is 25 yards. I just called and asked. Here is their contact information. Humble, you are a dishonest person.

San Antonio, TX | Bass Pro Shops
17907 IH-10 West
San Antonio, TX 78257
210-253-8800


http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s...gId=10051&langId=-1&appID=94&tab=3&storeID=46

And did you talk to the range master? Or the phone operator? The pistol range is 25 yards for the first 4 lanes. The last 2 are 50 yards. I was told the same thing you were before I went my first time and was surprised that the last 2 lanes were longer than the first 4. The last two are for "rifles" although you can shoot on them with a pistol if you really want to. I only get pushed over there when a CHL class is going on in the first 4 lanes.

 

[Geosurface]

Simple enough it seems to me, Humble. Take a video recording device in there next time you go (and go soon!) and set it up to record you making those shots, if possible. Or get a friend to use a proper camcorder with a proper zoom, or whatever is necessary.

 

[HumblePie]

Simple enough it seems to me, Humble. Take a video recording device in there next time you go (and go soon!) and set it up to record you making those shots, if possible. Or get a friend to use a proper camcorder with a proper zoom, or whatever is necessary.

Don't have my membership there anymore since I moved to the other side and outside of San Antonio. Let it expire. I was going to Bracken and Deitz which are "closer" but they are outdoors. Way too cold to do that right now. Nor can I go get the targets at those ranges since the are fixed at their spots. The pistol range at bracken sucks and is like at 10 yards away only. Only one indoor range near me that I know of which is Nardis. They are ridiculously expensive though to go to since they require a huge membership fee last time I checked.

 

[bshole]

And did you talk to the range master? Or the phone operator? The pistol range is 25 yards for the first 4 lanes. The last 2 are 50 yards. I was told the same thing you were before I went my first time and was surprised that the last 2 lanes were longer than the first 4. The last two are for "rifles" although you can shoot on them with a pistol if you really want to. I only get pushed over there when a CHL class is going on in the first 4 lanes.

ROFLMFAO!!!!! Keep digging. There are 4 15 yd lanes and 2 25 yd lanes. Lanes 5&6 are the ONLY 25 yd lanes. You Texans and your tall tales.

I don't even believe you can shoot quarter groups at 25 yds. There may be a few marksmen who could but you clearly aren't one of them.

You see, when you compromise your credibility, Humble.... everything you say then becomes suspect. What I just did to you has been done to Dunn.

Call the number Geo. They laughed at me when I mentioned a 50 yard range! I was on the phone with them for 5 minutes, they will definitely remember me.

 

[Geosurface]

Don't have my membership there anymore since I moved to the other side and outside of San Antonio. Let it expire. I was going to Bracken and Deitz which are "closer" but they are outdoors. Way too cold to do that right now. Nor can I go get the targets at those ranges since the are fixed at their spots. The pistol range at bracken sucks and is like at 10 yards away only. Only one indoor range near me that I know of which is Nardis. They are ridiculously expensive though to go to since they require a huge membership fee last time I checked.

Excuses, excuses!

Just kidding, I actually believe you.

 

[Geosurface]

ROFLMAFAO!!!!! Keep digging. There are 4 15 yd lanes and 2 25 yd lanes. Lanes 5&6 are the ONLY 25 yd lanes. You Texans and your tall tales.

I don't even believe you can shoot quarter groups at 25 yds. There may be a few marksmen who could but you clearly aren't one of them.

Call the number Geo. They laughed at me when I mentioned a 50 yard range!

Well I don't want to inundate them with calls but did you call a second time and ask to speak with the range master?

 

[HumblePie]

ROFLMAFAO!!!!! Keep digging. There are 4 15 yd lanes and 2 25 yd lanes. Lanes 5&6 are the ONLY 25 yd lanes. You Texans and your tall tales.

I don't even believe you can shoot quarter groups at 25 yds. There may be a few marksmen who could but you clearly aren't one of them.

Call the number Geo. They laughed at me when I mentioned a 50 yard range! I was on the phone with them for 5 minutes, they will definitely remember me.

https://www.facebook.com/bpssanantonio

Look at the picture at the top right. That is what lanes 1-4 look like. The blue markings are for 7 and 15 yards (there is a 3 yard marking closer but blocked by wall you can't see it's right where the cardboard backing is hanging from in that picture). The backstop is 25 yards. You can push the target all the way to the backstop if you want. The last two are twice as far.

But call me a liar if you don't like what the picture shows.

 

[HumblePie]

Find it funny that bshole is going down the rabbit hole of where I shoot at instead of discussing Dunn. Way to deflect as well as use your normal ad homemin attacks and logic fallacies as you do in most of your thread discussions?