Teenager shot dead after playing loud music

[himkhan]

Without shooting anyone? Hmmm interesting.

What was it about this incident that made him end up unloading his gun into their car, when he hadn't done that any of the previous times?

You have new information that tells he had a gun those previous times? An eqaul good question was this the initial time he was in possession of a gun when confronting?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

So, to be clear, youre saying no middle aged white man has ever confronted a black teen without having a firearm in their possession? Ever?

And in saying that, he seems to be upset that the old white man was able to level the playing field with these young bucks.


I wonder how many of these thug supporters go around bullying old men. People like that have a right to be afraid of CCW.

 

[mugs]

Without shooting anyone? Hmmm interesting.

I wonder what sort of reactions - a middle aged white guy who makes it a point to tell cars full of young black men to turn down their rap music - gets.

Probably a wide spectrum of reactions. Sometimes polite agreement, sometimes begrudging agreement, sometimes angry refusal, sometimes yelling and bluster... and maybe, just maybe, eventually such a person might run into a (by all appearances) credible threat on his life.

What was it about this incident that made him end up unloading his gun into their car, when he hadn't done that any of the previous times? Was it his breaking point, or was there a line that they crossed that none of the previous people had?

Face it: none of us know. Pretending it is clear cut is stupid.

Capt Caveman was mistaken, he hadn't previously confronted anyone over loud music (according to his girlfriend).

She stated when they pulled in they parked next to a red SUV that had music turned up loud. Ms. ____ advised the suspected stated, "I hate thug music." I asked Ms. ____ if it was normal for the suspect to express his dislike of "thug music." She stated it was very common. I asked Ms ____ if it would be normal for the suspect to confront someone over loud music. She stated it was totally out of character. She advised normally he would complain about loud music, but would not confront anybody.

Page 43 of the discovery documents.

 

[bshole]

And in saying that, he seems to be upset that the old white man was able to level the playing field with these young bucks.

I wonder how many of these thug supporters go around bullying old men. People like that have a right to be afraid of CCW.

You do realize he is in jail. He could go to prison for life. I can see him in jail now thinking, "It was so worth it to tell them thugs to turn down their music. I really showed them. God I am so glad that I had a CCW permit. Now I can bask in the afterglow for the rest of my life while being ass banged by a population of large black thugs looking for a bit of payback."

ROFLMFAO!!!

I think I'll pass on putting thugs in their place, I will leave that to "heroes" like Spatial, Spidey and the like. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

 

[Exophase]

And in saying that, he seems to be upset that the old white man was able to level the playing field with these young bucks.

I like how the guy who was killed in the movie theater was a young buck in that story but this guy who is practically the same age is now the old man.

There's this disturbing presumption among some that the guy who got shot just had to have been doing something to have it coming.

I guess without the gun he wouldn't have been on the same playing field and would have just had to endure listening to that "thug music" for a few minutes while waiting for his girlfriend.

How is pulling a gun on someone level with playing loud music in the first place?

 

[TerryMathews]

I guess without the gun he wouldn't have been on the same playing field and would have just had to endure listening to that "thug music" for a few minutes while waiting for his girlfriend.

How is pulling a gun on someone level with playing loud music in the first place?

You're assuming that their version of events is truthful and his is not. Considering the police did not investigate crime scene for 4 days, I dont know how at this point anyone can be sure what really happened.

It definitely casts the shooters version of events into question since he did not report to police. OTOH the people traveling with the deceased acted oddly as well.

It is possible that both parties are lying.

 

[bshole]

You're assuming that their version of events is truthful and his is not. Considering the police did not investigate crime scene for 4 days, I dont know how at this point anyone can be sure what really happened.

It definitely casts the shooters version of events into question since he did not report to police. OTOH the people traveling with the deceased acted oddly as well.

It is possible that both parties are lying.

There is absolutely NO disagreement that it started by him telling the black kids to turn the music down. Why the dumb fuck didn't keep his mouth shut is extremely obvious. He had a GUN so he didn't have to keep his mouth shut. He wanted confrontation and he got it.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

"Why the dumb fuck didn't keep his mouth shut is extremely obvious. He had a GUN so he didn't have to keep his mouth shut. He wanted confrontation and he got it."

I don't think anyone disagrees with this either: It's just that the racists on the board are happy that some black kids were killed, just like they fantasize about every time they are subjected to loud rap music.

 

[They Live]

Unless, of course, none of them had actually ever shot the thing before and Jordan just knew where it was kept in the guy's truck, and grabbed it on an impulse thinking he could just scare this old cracka by flashing it, never having any intention of actually firing it.

Atmosphere within truck goes from turning down the music to "nah fuck that, turn that shit back up, who this bitch think he is?" and escalates, and escalates (rapidly) as each of the three who are in the truck (driver was inside at this time) is spurred on by the bluster of the other two and a desire to outdo them, prove they are even more of a badass.

Until Jordan remembers the driver keeps a sawed off shotty under the passenger seat, reaches down, grabs it, without pausing to consider how bad of an idea this is, and points it out the window in the hopes that the result is the three of them laughing their asses off two minutes hence about "did you see that white bitch's face? I think he musta shit himself! He peeled out of here so fast!" and again, never having intended to actually fire it. If it was even loaded.

Instead, unexpectedly the cracka has pulled a pistol and is UNLOADING on the truck. Not even most hardened special ops soldiers are going to willingly just remain in the line of fire and try to counter the barrage by blasting the shooter with their own gun. Every instinct in anyone's mind and body is going to be to DUCK and get low in the truck's back seat when those bullets start coming in. This is assuming the first couple rounds didn't outright hit Jordan anyway.

You honestly think someone is going to stay in the most dangerous position possible and return fire instead of ducking? Especially if they hadn't ever intended to fire?

In the end, what the defense and prosecution can get the jury to entertain/believe is going to depend very heavily on the racial composition of said jury. Which is twisted, sick, ridiculous, and a huge piece of evidence of how stupid a multicultural society is to deliberately pursue.

Your constant use of the word "cracka" is annoying , although I know your using it as an attempt to race bait.

 

[They Live]

If he was in his occupied vehicle it absolutely does.

He actually got out of his vehicle and fired as they were driving away.

 

[They Live]

Without shooting anyone? Hmmm interesting.

I wonder what sort of reactions - a middle aged white guy who makes it a point to tell cars full of young black men to turn down their rap music - gets.

Probably a wide spectrum of reactions. Sometimes polite agreement, sometimes begrudging agreement, sometimes angry refusal, sometimes yelling and bluster... and maybe, just maybe, eventually such a person might run into a (by all appearances) credible threat on his life.

What was it about this incident that made him end up unloading his gun into their car, when he hadn't done that any of the previous times? Was it his breaking point, or was there a line that they crossed that none of the previous people had?

Face it: none of us know. Pretending it is clear cut is stupid.

Why did 71 year old Trevor Dooley with no criminal history decide to flash a gun at someone, and then kill him during a physical altercation?

Shit happens.

 

[Exophase]

You're assuming that their version of events is truthful and his is not. Considering the police did not investigate crime scene for 4 days, I dont know how at this point anyone can be sure what really happened.

It definitely casts the shooters version of events into question since he did not report to police. OTOH the people traveling with the deceased acted oddly as well.

It is possible that both parties are lying.

The only thing I'm assuming is that there wasn't a shotgun. I'm not totally convinced or anything, I just think there's more evidence against it than for it.

 

[TerryMathews]

There is absolutely NO disagreement that it started by him telling the black kids to turn the music down. Why the dumb fuck didn't keep his mouth shut is extremely obvious. He had a GUN so he didn't have to keep his mouth shut. He wanted confrontation and he got it.

I like how your so sure that Dunn is the one that escalated the situation.

Nothing like good ole liburl faith. Pour it on everything baby.

BTW, when do you want to get started on that anal sex education?

 

[TerryMathews]

The only thing I'm assuming is that there wasn't a shotgun. I'm not totally convinced or anything, I just think there's more evidence against it than for it.

I'll agree with that. Id feel a lot more confident if the police had secured and searched the scene in a reasonable amount of time however.

Mark my words, if Dunn walks or gets a shortb sentence it will be due to length of time it took for the police to search the scene.

 

[Geosurface]

The gun "empowered" him to confront the black teens. He would NEVER had confronted them without that gun in his pocket, no fucking way, not a chance on earth.

The gun was in his glove compartment where it had rested for many, many years without being used to shoot anyone. Not in his pocket. Did it empower him to confront someone? Maybe, maybe not. We don't know if he's the type who might have done it anyway. They exist. We don't know if he was even really conscious of the gun being there after all those years, whether it weighed into his considerations at all or not.

You are saying a group of black teens are inherently a dangerous threat to others..

Kinda sounds like it doesn't it?

You have new information that tells he had a gun those previous times? An eqaul good question was this the initial time he was in possession of a gun when confronting?

The discovery documents show that he and his girlfriend attested that the gun had been in his glove compartment for years. I think it was at least like 15 years. So it would seem that 15 years of minor annoyances like bad drivers and loud music went by without triggering him to shoot anyone up. Food for thought.

Capt Caveman was mistaken, he hadn't previously confronted anyone over loud music (according to his girlfriend).

Okay thanks. Based on the interviews and stuff though we still have a situation where he'd had a gun in his car for like 15-20 years if I recall correctly, and had been annoyed by this kind of music constantly... yet never shot at anyone over it.

You do realize he is in jail. He could go to prison for life. I can see him in jail now thinking, "It was so worth it to tell them thugs to turn down their music. I really showed them. God I am so glad that I had a CCW permit. Now I can bask in the afterglow for the rest of my life while being ass banged by a population of large black thugs looking for a bit of payback."

You seem to be asserting that what ended up happening should've been completely foreseeable. If our society has gotten to the point where an adult asking some kids to turn down their music is *expected* to lead to a situation where the adult is getting yelled at and threatened, or a situation where someone ends up shot, then our society has some very deep problems.

If you only think that this was foreseeable and volatile because of the races involved, then we have no business trying to operate a multicultural society. They clearly don't work.

I guess without the gun he wouldn't have been on the same playing field and would have just had to endure listening to that "thug music" for a few minutes while waiting for his girlfriend.

Or not. I've most certainly known people who would say something without having any gun in a situation like that. They exist, believe me. I'm not one of them btw. I would have endured it for a couple minutes and left. If I had a neighbor who blasted loud ass music constantly though, I might eventually go over and say something to them (or maybe I'd call cops, not sure) - and I wouldn't be armed when I did it. In a functioning society that's supposed to be possible to do.

There is absolutely NO disagreement that it started by him telling the black kids to turn the music down. Why the dumb fuck didn't keep his mouth shut is extremely obvious. He had a GUN so he didn't have to keep his mouth shut. He wanted confrontation and he got it.

Well I guess from his perspective it started with the music annoying him. And again, there are plenty of people who would say something without having a gun. Certainly a small minority of people, but still plenty of them. Someone playing loud rap music shouldn't be a condition which necessarily leads to bullets flying. Nor should asking/telling someone to turn that music down. Nor should that request being refused. The question is - and NONE OF US HERE KNOW THE ANSWER - did something else happen in there, something which did justify his actions? Or did he just decide "oh, not gonna turn it down? Time to die then!"

It's just that the racists on the board are happy that some black kids were killed, just like they fantasize about every time they are subjected to loud rap music.

Hmmm I had come to expect a higher level of intellect in your posts than this.

Your constant use of the word "cracka" is annoying , although I know your using it as an attempt to race bait.

No, actually it's an attempt to convincingly portray a scenario with authentic language so that when people read it they are more likely to say "hmm yea, y'know what, it actually could've gone down like that." It bolsters my argument if the dialogue is believable, and makes the reader more likely to imagine the scenario playing out in their mind and for it to "click" for them. I don't "race bait" - this is just another facet of the overall push to classify everything someone doesn't agree with as some variety of "trolling." It's silly. I think the number of actual trolls on these boards is probably about 1/100th of what people act like it is.

I may have some perspectives which aren't the norm, or a way of expressing myself which you don't like, but I am not trying deliberately to upset anyone.

Why did 71 year old Trevor Dooley with no criminal history decide to flash a gun at someone, and then kill him during a physical altercation?

Shit happens.

Very true. Sometimes people just snap. Sometimes they are in a certain mindset because of other things going on in their life and someone pushed back against them at the wrong time, and sent them over the edge. Entirely possible that's what happened here. I just think it's also possible that they really did threaten his life. Whether how he reacted to that was exactly appropriate (like getting out of the car and continuing to fire) is another matter.

 

[blankslate]

The overwhelming majority of gun murders are committed without a CCW.

If Mr. Dunn went through the training to get a CCW that begs the question(s). If after going through that training and being a responsible firearms owner why did he

• shoot at the vehicle driven by the teenagers as they were leaving?

• Leave the premises and neglect to notify the proper authorities of the shooting?

The last one bothers me the most.

Even if I accept as fact Mr. Dunn's assertion that there was a shotgun and that he was perhaps fearful of the other people at the convenience store; it still begs the question why did he not contact the police as soon as he was away from the store?

If he didn't trust the police in the town the shooting took place in why didn't he go straight to the police in his home town (approximately 160 miles away from the incident) while having his girlfriend contact his neighbor?

The fact that he apparently didn't contact the police before they tracked him down via his license plate number might be a reason his questioning wasn't on the friendliest of terms.

If he contacted law enforcement asap then they probably would be more inclined to believe his statements about the shotgun....

After all it would then be a justified shooting and there doesn't seem to be a reason not to notify LEOs when you have to engage in such an action even if you don't believe you actually hit anyone.

Wouldn't you want to report thugs who go around pointing shotguns at people who politely ask them to turn down their loud annoying music?



.....

 

[Catriona]

If Mr. Dunn went through the training to get a CCW that begs the question(s). If after going through that training and being a responsible firearms owner why did he

• shoot at the vehicle driven by the teenagers as they were leaving?

• Leave the premises and neglect to notify the proper authorities of the shooting?

The last one bothers me the most.

The last one bothers me the most as well.

 

[werepossum]

If Mr. Dunn went through the training to get a CCW that begs the question(s). If after going through that training and being a responsible firearms owner why did he

• shoot at the vehicle driven by the teenagers as they were leaving?

• Leave the premises and neglect to notify the proper authorities of the shooting?

The last one bothers me the most.

Even if I accept as fact Mr. Dunn's assertion that there was a shotgun and that he was perhaps fearful of the other people at the convenience store; it still begs the question why did he not contact the police as soon as he was away from the store?

If he didn't trust the police in the town the shooting took place in why didn't he go straight to the police in his home town (approximately 160 miles away from the incident) while having his girlfriend contact his neighbor?

The fact that he apparently didn't contact the police before they tracked him down via his license plate number might be a reason his questioning wasn't on the friendliest of terms.

If he contacted law enforcement asap then they probably would be more inclined to believe his statements about the shotgun....

After all it would then be a justified shooting and there doesn't seem to be a reason not to notify LEOs when you have to engage in such an action even if you don't believe you actually hit anyone.

Wouldn't you want to report thugs who go around pointing shotguns at people who politely ask them to turn down their loud annoying music?

.....

Hard for me to believe there was a shotgun. Assuming it can easily be proven that he shot at the SUV as it was driving away, that would be a stupid thing to do to an SUV full of thugs armed with a shotgun, just provoking them to turn around and shoot back. Therefore I cannot believe he thought there was a shotgun. I can more easily understand why he would not report the shooting.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

This doesn't sound like it's a cut and dry case. As I suspected the defense is going after the fact that the other teens had the time to stash a weapon and the fact the police didn't secure/search the area for several days.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/06/justice/florida-loud-music-murder-trial/

CNN) -- Michael Dunn killed Jordan Davis. That's not in dispute, but according to attorneys' opening statements Thursday in Dunn's murder trial, almost everything else is.

Assistant State Attorney John Guy, speaking for the prosecution, painted a picture of four innocent teens who stopped at a Jacksonville, Florida, gas station for gum and cigarettes amid a day of "mall hopping and girl shopping" over Thanksgiving break in 2012. Dunn asked the teens to turn down their music, and Jordan disrespected him, saying "F*** that n****r" -- nothing more -- and for that, Dunn opened fire, hitting Jordan three times.

It was a markedly different account from that of defense attorney Cory Strolla, who told jurors that the music was so loud, it was rattling the windows of the teens' SUV, and when Dunn politely asked one of them to turn it down, Jordan uttered the three-word explicit phrase, demanded his pal turn the music back up and began jawing with Dunn.

Jordan then produced a weapon -- either a gun or a lead pipe, Strolla alleged -- and told Dunn, "I'm going to f***ing kill you," the attorney said. He added, "You're dead, bitch. This is going down now," the attorney alleged.

While Guy said Jordan and Dunn "exchanged f-bombs back and forth," Strolla said his client never uttered a curse word. And while Guy cited witnesses who said an incensed Dunn began shooting after telling Jordan, "You're not going to talk to me like that," Strolla insisted that Jordan was getting out of the car, armed, with the intention of hurting or killing Dunn.

"The first person to get upset, and the only person to curse was Jordan Davis," Strolla said, adding that one of the teens with Jordan, Leland Brunson, initially told police Jordan was getting out of the car when the shots rang out.

Four days later, Strolla said, the teens claimed driver Tommie Stornes had the child locks activated, preventing Jordan from getting out.

"You know why he didn't duck? He was getting out of the car with a weapon," Strolla said.

The shooting

Dunn initially fired three times into Jordan's door, which Guy said was closed, a bullet landing in each of Jordan's legs while a third bullet traveled through his liver, lungs and aorta. A "terrified" Stornes backed up, "but the defendant didn't stop. He kept focus and aimed at the car," firing four more times, Guy said.

Dunn then opened the door of his Volkswagen, swung his legs out of the car and fired three more times, the prosecutor said. One bullet went through the back window of Stornes' Dodge Durango and landed in the visor just above his head, Guy said.

Police reports have indicated that the teens were unarmed, and a police interrogator told Dunn the day after the November 2012 shooting that the teens didn't have a chance to ditch any weapon because they never left the gas station parking lot. Dunn repeatedly said he feared for his life and saw either a shotgun barrel or a stick in the teens' SUV before he began shooting.

When police searched the car, Guy said, they found a basketball, basketball shoes, some clothing, a camera tripod and cups on the floor but "no weapons."

This promises to be a bone of contention in the case, as Strolla told jurors that not only did the teens leave the gas station parking lot, they stopped in an adjacent lot about 100 yards away before returning and asking someone to call 911. They had "ample time to get rid of a firearm or pipe," Strolla said.

Also, Strolla said, the witnesses cannot account for two of the teens' whereabouts immediately after the shooting, and two witnesses initially told police the teens appeared to be "stashing" something.

No weapon was found because the police did not secure the parking lot to conduct a proper search, Strolla said, and it was days before authorities looked in the nearby bushes and Dumpsters.

Though it doesn't appear to be a factor in the case, Jordan did have a knife in his pocket. Guy classified it as a "pocket knife," a description with which Strolla took issue, saying it was a tactical knife with a 4-inch blade.

"It's not a Swiss Army knife with a toothpick and scissors," he said.

The aftermath

What happened immediately after the shooting is also arguable, to hear the attorneys tell it. Dunn and his girlfriend, Rhonda Rouer, drove 40 miles south to St. Augustine, where they had reservations at a bed and breakfast.

Once there, Guy said, Dunn ordered pizza, "took his little dog for a walk," ordered a movie and "poured a big, tall drink -- rum and Coke."

"They had cell phones, but they didn't call 911. He didn't drive to a police substation," Guy said. "That defendant put his head on his hotel pillow and went to sleep."

In the morning, Rouer saw a news report about a shooting at a Jacksonville gas station, in which a 17-year-old had been killed, and rather than call police, the couple packed their bags and drove 130 miles home to Satellite Beach, where Dunn was finally apprehended.

Dunn "was waiting till we get around people we know" to call authorities, and he wanted to ensure "our dog and everybody were where they needed to be. I did not want to bring a s**tstorm down on them in Jacksonville," he told interrogators the day after the shooting.

Strolla added that it wasn't Dunn who ordered pizza, but Rouer, who was nervous meeting Dunn's family for the first time that day. She hadn't eaten much at Dunn's son's wedding and ordered the pizza because she was hungry, Strolla said.

"She's the one who watched the movie to put herself to sleep," the defense attorney said.

Rouer is also to blame for the couple traveling home the next morning, he said. She was "petrified" and "didn't know the law of self-defense" and begged Dunn to take her back to Satellite Beach, Strolla said.

He said, she said

Witness credibility promises to be an issue as well, as the driver of teens' car, Stornes, was on probation and violating curfew at the time of the shooting. Also, Strolla said, the witness who reported Dunn's license plate to police is in prison and tried to leverage his testimony in Dunn's trial for a lighter sentence.

Dunn has pleaded not guilty to first degree murder and three counts of attempted first-degree murder. Between iffy witnesses and what Strolla called a shoddy investigation, the evidence will show that Dunn's actions were lawful and justified, the defense attorney said. Had Dunn not been armed, he might have been the victim that evening, Strolla said.

"God didn't make all men equal. Colt did. Colt is a firearm," Strolla said. "(Dunn) had every right under the law to not be a victim, to be judged by 12 rather than carried by six."

The prosecution unsurprisingly has a different take. Guy said Dunn was simply incensed by the heavy bass coming from a nearby car -- even telling Rouer before she went to buy wine and chips, "I hate this music" -- and he began shooting when a teen defiantly took issue with being told what to do.

"Jordan Davis was sitting in his car seat with the door closed with nothing in his hands," Guy told the jury. "Michael David Dunn pointed a semiautomatic pistol at four unarmed kids at a distance much closer than you and I."

John Phillips, an attorney for the Davis family, told CNN he expects a quick trial, over before February 14, two days before what would have been Davis' 19th birthday.

 

[Catriona]

Hard for me to believe there was a shotgun. Assuming it can easily be proven that he shot at the SUV as it was driving away, that would be a stupid thing to do to an SUV full of thugs armed with a shotgun, just provoking them to turn around and shoot back. Therefore I cannot believe he thought there was a shotgun. I can more easily understand why he would not report the shooting.

That, and to wait until his BAC wouldn't be a factor in the investigation.

 

[Geosurface]

Hard for me to believe there was a shotgun. Assuming it can easily be proven that he shot at the SUV as it was driving away, that would be a stupid thing to do to an SUV full of thugs armed with a shotgun, just provoking them to turn around and shoot back. Therefore I cannot believe he thought there was a shotgun.

Hmm I interpret it exactly the opposite way.

If he didn't think there was a shotgun, no reason to keep firing.

If he did, then he was laying down "suppressive fire" explicitly to PREVENT them from using the shotgun against him as they drove off, and/or to discourage coming back to make another pass and use it.

That, and to wait until his BAC wouldn't be a factor in the investigation.

Everyone I've read testimony from who was at the wedding said he hadn't had more than like, one or two glasses of wine (if I recall correctly) at the wedding. Including the black DJ.

I think he was just panicked and probably gave in to the silly thought/temptation that he could avoid dealing with all the legal red tape over it. He didn't know til the next day he'd killed anyone, and if his story is true, he probably figured there was no reason his life should be derailed because some punks tried to kill him and he defended himself.

/Devil's Advocate

 

[Catriona]

Hmm I interpret it exactly the opposite way.

If he didn't think there was a shotgun, no reason to keep firing.

If he did, then he was laying down "suppressive fire" explicitly to PREVENT them from using the shotgun against him as they drove off, and/or to discourage coming back to make another pass and use it.



Everyone I've read testimony from who was at the wedding said he hadn't had more than like, one or two glasses of wine (if I recall correctly) at the wedding. Including the black DJ.

I think he was just panicked and probably gave in to the silly thought/temptation that he could avoid dealing with all the legal red tape over it. He didn't know til the next day he'd killed anyone, and if his story is true, he probably figured there was no reason his life should be derailed because some punks tried to kill him and he defended himself.

/Devil's Advocate

Okay, Geo, aside from the fact that the DJ's race should be irrelevant, how many wedding receptions have you been to where someone monitored your alcohol consumption?

Whether or not he knew he killed someone, he knew he fired his gun. And yet he took off. That's a drive by, is it not? Not cool for someone with a CCP.

 

[Vic]

Why do you keep making up stories?

 

[CitizenKain]

I think its funny he ran from the scene of the crime after spraying bullets at another vehicle and then pretends he didn't think he hurt anyone. Its such a massive line of bullshit I can't believe anyone buys it, but here we are.

 

[Vic]

The bullet through the back window is a nice touch. This is murder, no doubt of it.