Teenager shot dead after playing loud music

[Vic]

Also known as an occupied vehicle.

Castle doctrine applies.

Not in this case it doesn't.

 

[spidey07]

Not in this case it doesn't.

If he was in his occupied vehicle it absolutely does.

 

[Geosurface]

No doubt he could really hear all those alleged threats from behind his closed windows and over that loud jungle music.

According to him the music was loud and he initially thought some of what they were yelling was part of the music itself, before he eventually realized (possibly after they got increasingly loud and started to get his attention by motioning or looking toward him out of the windows or something) that they were talking to him, or that they probably were.

I think you may be overestimating a car window's ability to block out noise/speech only a couple feet away. He may also have rolled the window down at some point to ascertain what they were saying to him.

It's so obvious this guy is lying about the shotgun.

Certainly a very real possibility. Or in his stress immediately after it, or his stress of being contacted by the police, he didn't happen to mention it at those particular times.

Who knows?

 

[Victorian Gray]

I don't know where you guys are getting your information but Dunn's own statement is that he was in the car, with the windows up and the engine running, at the time of the shooting.

Reality doesn't matter. <shrug> Racialist concern troll is being racialist concern troll and internet tuff guy is being internet tuff guy. It's a game.

 

[Vic]

If he was in his occupied vehicle it absolutely does.

Except that there was no credible threat to justify the use of deadly force.

 

[Capt Caveman]

My source for the information that he got out of the vehicle was his interview with the police. I don't feel like watching it again, but from skimming the police report I only see mention of him opening the car door to continue firing, and one mention of him firing while squatting. So, I may be mistaken about him getting out, but at very least he opened the car door so he could continue shooting at them as they drove away.

While skimming for that I did find this (written by the police):



Strange that he offered a reason why it was self-defense, but didn't mention the shotgun. Must have just forgotten, I guess.

Edit:
He also forgot to mention it when he was explaining the situation to his girlfriend while driving away. He told them they were "making threats and he believed they were starting to 'advance on him,'" but he never mentioned seeing any weapon. It's so obvious this guy is lying about the shotgun.

Correct. And the interview with the gf, she mentions that Dunn has confronted these thug types over their music before.

 

[spidey07]

Except that there was no credible threat to justify the use of deadly force.

Verbal threats with disparity of force is absolutely credible.

No weapon is needed.

 

[Geosurface]

Correct. And the interview with the gf, she mentions that Dunn has confronted these thug types over their music before.

Without shooting anyone? Hmmm interesting.

I wonder what sort of reactions - a middle aged white guy who makes it a point to tell cars full of young black men to turn down their rap music - gets.

Probably a wide spectrum of reactions. Sometimes polite agreement, sometimes begrudging agreement, sometimes angry refusal, sometimes yelling and bluster... and maybe, just maybe, eventually such a person might run into a (by all appearances) credible threat on his life.

What was it about this incident that made him end up unloading his gun into their car, when he hadn't done that any of the previous times? Was it his breaking point, or was there a line that they crossed that none of the previous people had?

Face it: none of us know. Pretending it is clear cut is stupid.

 

[mugs]

Certainly a very real possibility. Or in his stress immediately after it, or his stress of being contacted by the police, he didn't happen to mention it at those particular times.

Who knows?

Anything is believable if you want to believe badly enough. I'm a reasonable man though, I believe what a reasonable man would believe. I see the following:

- He mentioned that they were "advancing on him" the first time he was asked about the incident, but forgot to mention the shotgun
- He mentioned that they were "advancing on him" the second time he was asked about the incident, but forgot to mention the shotgun
- There is absolutely no evidence, physical or eyewitness outside of Mr Dunn-goofed, that the shotgun ever existed
- There is evidence that the shotgun never existed (lack of opportunity to dispose of it, they were being observed the entire time). There are no trash cans visible on Google Maps near where they stopped, by the way. It's a strip mall with two lanes of parking spots running parallel to the road; they stopped in the lane closest to the road. Would be a strange place for a trash can; around here the trash cans are always on the sidewalk in front of the businesses.

No, a reasonable man could not conclude that there was a shotgun present. And that's all the prosecutor has to prove. He doesn't have to refute all of the mental gymnastics that the sociopathic cross-burning crew of savages in this thread go through to believe that Michael Dunn is an "honorable" "businessman."

 

[Capt Caveman]

Without shooting anyone? Hmmm interesting.

I wonder what sort of reactions - a middle aged white guy who makes it a point to tell cars full of young black men to turn down their rap music - gets.

Probably a wide spectrum of reactions. Sometimes polite agreement, sometimes begrudging agreement, sometimes angry refusal, sometimes yelling and bluster... and maybe, just maybe, eventually such a person might run into a (by all appearances) credible threat on his life.

What was it about this incident that made him end up unloading his gun into their car, when he hadn't done that any of the previous times? Was it his breaking point, or was there a line that they crossed that none of the previous people had?

Face it: none of us know. Pretending it is clear cut is stupid.

Yet, you have zero problem speculating like you have through-out this thread. :biggrin: Go back to Storm Front.

What's different this time? Maybe, he was drinking? Maybe, he was high? Maybe, he finally got tired of these thugs saying bad things to him?

Zero evidence to back-up anything he has said. He ran, never mentions the gun to his gf and stupid enough to continue his racist rants in letters that he's writing from prison b/c he's been denied bail.

And I'd love to know why the police were supposed to look for a gun the night of the murder? Dunn took off and wasn't apprehended til the next day by another county and was the only one to mention one, not even his gf brought it up.

 

[Vic]

Verbal threats with disparity of force is absolutely credible.

No weapon is needed.

There's no eyewitness to those either.

 

[Geosurface]

Anything is believable if you want to believe badly enough. I'm a reasonable man though, I believe what a reasonable man would believe.

Don't forget the possibility that he was legitimately in fear and his life was threatened, and they were opening the door of the truck making moves toward him, but that he's lying about the shotgun to try to "firm up" his defense.

He could have been legally in the clear to do what he did, but be lying about it to make himself seem even MORE SO.

 

[bshole]

I guess this is another "victory" for CCW fans. Another middle class law abiding person will get the chance to spend the rest of his life in prison because he just had to have a weapon on him. CCW turns otherwise normal people into John Wayne/Dirty Harry wannabes. From shooting up movie theaters, to shoot outs on the highway, it is now just a part of everyday life to have a CCW holders losing it and killing people needlessly. Perhaps CCW permits should be limited to women.... men simply have too much testostorene.

 

[Ichinisan]

I guess this is another "victory" for CCW fans. Another middle class law abiding person will get the chance to spend the rest of his life in prison because he just had to have a weapon on him. CCW turns otherwise normal people into John Wayne/Dirty Harry wannabes. From shooting up movie theaters, to shoot outs on the highway, it is now just a part of everyday life to have a CCW holders losing it and killing people needlessly. Perhaps CCW permits should be limited to women.... men simply have too much testostorene.

The overwhelming majority of gun murders are committed without a CCW.

 

[TerryMathews]

The overwhelming majority of gun murders are committed without a CCW.

Don't let facts get in the way of the liburl rage, I wanna see some frothing at the mouth!

 

[bshole]

Don't let facts get in the way of the liburl rage, I wanna see some frothing at the mouth!

Terry, where would this fellow be right now if he hadn't had a CCW? Would he be facing life in prison for murder or would he be living a middle class life with his fiancee? The rage issues appear to be all on your side of the aisle.... my side isn't blowing gaskets and shooting people because they piss us off.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

So who do your think are involved in more shootings a person with a CCW or a person with an illegal weapon?

 

[fskimospy]

So who do your think are involved in more shootings a person with a CCW or a person with an illegal weapon?

It's really hard to see why that would matter. The pros and cons of a concealed weapon permit do not depend on how many murders people without them commit.

 

[TerryMathews]

Terry, where would this fellow be right now if he hadn't had a CCW? Would he be facing life in prison for murder or would he be living a middle class life with his fiancee? The rage issues appear to be all on your side of the aisle.... my side isn't blowing gaskets and shooting people because they piss us off.

For all you know, he could be dead on the side of the road, or he could've killed that young man with a different weapon.

Classic logical fallacy. You're mistaking the object for the action.

 

[Vic]

Terry, where would this fellow be right now if he hadn't had a CCW? Would he be facing life in prison for murder or would he be living a middle class life with his fiancee? The rage issues appear to be all on your side of the aisle.... my side isn't blowing gaskets and shooting people because they piss us off.

His concealed carry didn't make him rage. At its core, this is really just another road rage incident and this guy was probably going to end up killing someone with his car.

BTW, your side is a figment of your imagination. You're posting anonymously on an Internet message board. Quit pretending that you represent anyone but yourself.

 

[TerryMathews]

His concealed carry didn't make him rage. At its core, this is really just another road rage incident and this guy was probably going to end up killing someone with his car.

BTW, your side is a figment of your imagination. You're posting anonymously on an Internet message board. Quit pretending that you represent anyone but yourself.

Exactly this. If you believe that he flew into a rage and killed that guy for no good reason (and I am split down the middle on it, I just dont know), then he was going to act out his rage with something.

 

[bshole]

The gun "empowered" him to confront the black teens. He would NEVER had confronted them without that gun in his pocket, no fucking way, not a chance on earth.

That is something that happens alot with CCW permit holders.... they seem to do a lot of "confronting". And after they do their "confronting", we have a bunch of conservatives on this forum justifying their confrontations. The CCW holders are the 2nd biggest victims in all of this, the biggest victims are the ones they shoot.

 

[TerryMathews]

The gun "empowered" him to confront the black teens. He would NEVER had confronted them without that gun in his pocket, no fucking way, not a chance on earth.

So, to be clear, youre saying no middle aged white man has ever confronted a black teen without having a firearm in their possession? Ever?

 

[Dr. Zaus]

The gun "empowered" him to confront the black teens. He would NEVER had confronted them without that gun in his pocket, no fucking way, not a chance on earth.

That is something that happens alot with CCW permit holders.... they seem to do a lot of "confronting". And after they do their "confronting", we have a bunch of conservatives on this forum justifying their confrontations. The CCW holders are the 2nd biggest victims in all of this, the biggest victims are the ones they shoot.

This happens "a lot" in the same sense anything you've seen sensationalized happens "a lot": in your mind.

 

[cubby1223]

The gun "empowered" him to confront the black teens. He would NEVER had confronted them without that gun in his pocket, no fucking way, not a chance on earth.

You are saying a group of black teens are inherently a dangerous threat to others.

Must be, because if they were peaceful there is no reason to fear & avoid confronting them.