Teenager shot dead after playing loud music

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mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
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Uh oh, we have an inconsistency between two witnesses.

Witness #1 stated that Dunn-goofed "said loudly 'You can't talk to me that way'"
Witness #2 stated that Dunn-goofed "stated 'You can't talk to me like that'"

We have an inconsistency between the manner of delivery "said loudly" vs "stated" and the way he ended the sentence "that way" vs "like that."

Obviously these witnesses are unreliable and we have to accept Dunn's claim that he asked "are you talking to me?"

Case closed.

Edit: I'm willing to admit when the facts contradict something I say, even if it was a joke. One of the passengers in the vehicle did report Dunn's words to be "you talking to me?" (page 40)
 
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LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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Uh oh, we have an inconsistency between two witnesses.

Witness #1 stated that Dunn-goofed "said loudly 'You can't talk to me that way'"
Witness #2 stated that Dunn-goofed "stated 'You can't talk to me like that'"

We have an inconsistency between the manner of delivery "said loudly" vs "stated" and the way he ended the sentence "that way" vs "like that."

Obviously these witnesses are unreliable and we have to accept Dunn's claim that he asked "are you talking to me?"

Case closed.

That's for the jury to figure out. :biggrin:
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
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Mystery solved re: whether the victims told the police they left the store. Page 39, the driver told the police they left and came back. No mention of "circling;" he actually says he backed the SUV back to the gas station. I haven't gotten to any mention of anyone in the SUV being on the phone yet. Still reading.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
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WTF, Dunn's former neighbor claimed that in 2000, Dunn "solicited him to kill or find someone to kill an individual for him. Mr. Dunn was having trouble with an individual who was suing his computer company and wanted him eliminated." He didn't report it to the police at the time, and he simply ended the conversation.

He also claims to have witnessed Dunn committing insurance fraud for $30,000. He reported this to the police.

He "was also aware of Mr. Dunn putting a gun to the head of his ex-wife. He advised Mr. Dunn was also married to another woman who was a foreign national and Mr. Dunn would use this fact to control her.

This could just be a crackpot or someone with a grudge against Dunn. Or Dunn could legitimately be an asshole.

(page 44)
 
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waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
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from what i see this is nothing like the TM case. what i believe happened is that dunn asked them to turn it down. the kids got pissy at that and gave him attitude and got out and acted like thugs.

dunn freaked out pulled his gun. the kids ran and dunn fired the whole time.

its murder
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
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from what i see this is nothing like the TM case. what i believe happened is that dunn asked them to turn it down. the kids got pissy at that and gave him attitude and got out and acted like thugs.

dunn freaked out pulled his gun. the kids ran and dunn fired the whole time.

its murder

So far I haven't found a witness who has said anyone got out of the SUV before the shooting. One passenger claims that the child locks are engaged on the back doors and "the doors have functioned that way every time he has been in the truck." (Seems odd, but maybe the vehicle is owned by the driver's parents and they have younger kids). I guess Jordan Davis could have reached out and opened the door from the inside, but back windows don't go down very far.

The police found the child locks to not be engaged.
 
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mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
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If anyone was curious, the song that set off the confrontation was "Beef" by a "Li'l Reese"
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
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So far I haven't found a witness who has said anyone got out of the SUV before the shooting. One passenger claims that the child locks are engaged on the back doors and "the doors have functioned that way every time he has been in the truck." (Seems odd, but maybe the vehicle is owned by the driver's parents and they have younger kids). I guess Jordan Davis could have reached out and opened the door from the inside, but back windows don't go down very far.


hmm i swear i read a report that said they were seen getting out. but then yeah i read the police reports (well most of the dump anyway.) and not one of the witness's say that.

yeah if you have younger kids the child door locks are on (well at least with me).

but the point of dunn being a insane gun holder still is right. the guy reminds me of a guy who post here a lot..

but anyway NONE of it matters. It does not matter if the kids didnt' get out and try to intimidate him.

He fired while they were fleeing! fuck him. he is guilty of murder.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
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Typical inconsistent witnesses:

One guy says they left the parking lot and returned about 5 minutes later.

Another says they returned within 2 minutes.

Another says they returned within 30 seconds to a minute.

(page 50)
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
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A while back there was some discussion about one of the 911 callers mentioning the the kids "stashing" something in the parking lot. The usual suspects latched onto that word "stash."

The caller's actual words:

One was on his cellphone looking back, and it looked like they were pretty much just -- I don't know if they were trying to stash something in the car or look for something or what, but it looked like they got out, kind of brushed themselves off and then they got back in,

I interpreted that phrasing to mean he was speculating about what they might have been doing, influenced by having seen them flee the scene of a shooting.

Notes on his interview begin on page 51.

- Both front seat occupants get out and open their respective rear doors; this could support the child lock story. I'm really not sure what to make of that, with the police finding the locks not engaged. If Jordan did get out while he was yelling at Dunn his friends could be covering for him, but so far there seems to have been a lot of people in that gas station parking lot and no one saw him get out.

- Neither had anything in their hands other than the cell phone held by the front passenger.

- He did not see anyone remove anything from the vehicle.

- Neither occupant left the immediate vicinity of the SUV.

- He says he used the word "stash" on the 911 call because he heard the shooting and he did not know what the involvement was of the individuals in the red SUV.

- He observed all of this from about 5-6 parking spaces away in the same lane as the SUV.


I never get tired of being right.


Quotes from the beginning of July:

As much as I know some of you hate it, but a witness verifying that they did in fact stop in this other parking lot, leave the vehicle, and appear to stash something is HUGELY damning to your agenda of making sure this guy is convicted.

Nope. He needs two pieces of evidence. One is that witnesses calling 911 and stating it looked like the teens were stashing something. Two is the phone records of the teens at the time and who they were calling.


A witness specifically saw them trying to stash something. That is HUGELY damning evidence if the state is going to take another lynch mob to trial.

He didn't say they looked like they were trying to stash something. He said, "One was on his cellphone looking back, and it looked like they were pretty much just -- I don't know if they were trying to stash something in the car or look for something or what, but it looked like they got out, kind of brushed themselves off and then they got back in." It's pretty obvious that he's just offering a guess as to what they might have been doing. That's more clear when he's interviewed and says he didn't see a weapon and didn't see them throw anything out of the car.

So he heard gunshots, saw some teens flee the scene, didn't know what their involvement was but guessed they might have been the shooters and were ditching the gun. It was just a guess, it doesn't tell us anything.

If you're familiar with the English language, which I presume that you are from your repeated usage of it, then you can read his words and see that he's clearly guessing.

What's important here is that the witnesses's later statement that he didn't see them remove anything from the vehicle is not inconsistent with his previous statement to the 911 operator, because his previous statement was clearly speculation. With my masterful understanding of the English language I correctly interpreted that from his words on the 911 tape. These clowns latched onto the word "stash" and ignored the context.
 
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waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
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Typical inconsistent witnesses:

One guy says they left the parking lot and returned about 5 minutes later.

Another says they returned within 2 minutes.

Another says they returned within 30 seconds to a minute.

(page 50)



not really a suprise. eye witnesses are can be very inconsistent. I remember a show (think 60 minutes) that did a test where a guy ran into a class grabbed the teachers laptop and ran off. the students were asked to describe the guy. it was a huge variety of descriptions and most were wrong.
 

MetalMat

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2004
9,687
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It appears that Mr. Dunn is toast, the fact that he did not call the cops after the incident raises a huge red flag
 

MetalMat

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2004
9,687
36
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So far I haven't found a witness who has said anyone got out of the SUV before the shooting. One passenger claims that the child locks are engaged on the back doors and "the doors have functioned that way every time he has been in the truck." (Seems odd, but maybe the vehicle is owned by the driver's parents and they have younger kids). I guess Jordan Davis could have reached out and opened the door from the inside, but back windows don't go down very far.

The police found the child locks to not be engaged.

Yep, they opened the door from the inside at the impound. Still from what I read not a single witness states that anyone got out the car.

What I am a bit confused about is their reasoning for going back to the gas station. I guess they saw Dunn drive away and figured it was safe?
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
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Yep, they opened the door from the inside at the impound. Still from what I read not a single witness states that anyone got out the car.

What I am a bit confused about is their reasoning for going back to the gas station. I guess they saw Dunn drive away and figured it was safe?

Best I can figure they just went back to wait for help when they realized Jordan had been shot. They never actually made it very far from the gas station. Here's a map:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=9964...sonville,+Duval,+Florida+32256&gl=us&t=h&z=20

They started at the Gate gas station and drove north into the attached strip mall. They stopped just past the southern entrance to the strip mall, but before they got to the sign with the names of the stores in the strip mall. They were close enough that they just drove in reverse to get back to the store, probably figuring police/ambulance would already be on the way there.
 
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MetalMat

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2004
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Best I can figure they just went back to wait for help when they realized Jordan had been shot. They never actually made it very far from the gas station. Here's a map:

http://*******/maps/4lmnJ

They started at the Gate gas station and drove north into the attached strip mall. They stopped just past the southern entrance to the strip mall, but before they got to the sign with the names of the stores in the strip mall. They were close enough that they just drove in reverse to get back to the store, probably figuring police/ambulance would already be on the way there.

Ah

And Dunn fired even more bullets at them as they were trying to get away? Jeez this idiot must have had a real chip on his shoulder that night. Sure I would be annoyed with someone next to me blasting shitty music but its no reason to go rambo on them.

Unless other other evidence pops up this seems to me like a no brainer conviction.
 
Sep 7, 2009
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He's already locked up, has been now for awhile, been denied bail TWICE..


Thanks so much for that correction, butch. You know what I meant.



Technically..... I mean let's say there WAS a shotgun.... In Florida, isn't shooting into the vehicle as it's driving away allowed?

I've seen a couple of videos where someone was attacked, the victim shot back even as the thugs were running away... The argument is that until they are no longer in sight they could technically be a threat.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
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londojowo.hypermart.net

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
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It appears that Mr. Dunn is toast, the fact that he did not call the cops after the incident raises a huge red flag

That has nothing to do with any form of legal trouble he may receive.

Dunn's problem, from a legal standpoint, is that he fired 2 volley's. The first volley was from inside his car, and the second is when he opened the door to get a better angle to continue firing upon a car speeding away. That second volley is what is going to land him in hot water period. Even if his first volley was legally justified, which I'm not saying it is at this point, the second volley would NEVER be considered legally justified anywhere.

In self defense you shoot to STOP a threat. That is not the same as saying you shoot to kill a threat. Killing a threat does stop it, but if you don't kill what you are shooting at and the threat has been stopped, then continuing to shoot is breaking the law. I've stated this a few times in this thread already.

The debate now isn't whether Dunn is going to serve prison time. THAT is a given based off the action I just outlined. I'm not sure of the punishment scale in Florida off the top of my head, but here in Texas that would be at a minimum a class A misdemeanor that would land him a year in prison for his actions of negligent discharge of a firearm.

What is up for debate was if the first shot was legally justified or not. Did the teens present a credible threat would make a reasonable person fear for their life or of receiving grave bodily harm? Right now we don't know for sure. Dunn's two claims were that Davis tried to exit his vehicle while making threats at him and that Dunn saq an object he construed as a weapon. Every party has corroborated that Davis was making threats at Dunn. Making verbal threats by themselves doesn't constitute a credible threat. Davis exiting the vehicle with a possible weapon does. Right now the statement from the teens is that Dunn fired based only off verbal threats from Davis. So without unbiased third party witness testimony, it's Dunn's word against the teen's word.

The ONLY piece of corroborating evidence Dunn may have in his favor is that if there was a weapon, that the teens may have drove off to dump the weapon. Which means the teens needed an outside party to pick up the weapon before it was found by police. The only way to verify that would be through phone records at the time. All the teens were seen by witness testimony to be on the phone when they drove off and came back. Who they were talking to we do not know right now. That is the only key piece of evidence in this case that would swing the case to prove Dunn's innocence.


Even lacking that piece evidence in Dunn's favor of proving there may have been a weapon, Dunn's case for self defense for firing the first volley is STILL strong. Despite his actions after the event. This is because of how the judicial system works. Dunn is INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty. Which means evidence must be brought by the state that PROVES guilt by a reasonable doubt. Testimony from the teens is not enough at this point to reach that burden of proof. Even if the testimony from the teens is the truth and Dunn is lying, the prosecution doesn't have the evidence to prove Dunn's testimony is a lie. Not with what we have right now. So even if it is murder, Dunn will most likely not get slapped with it. Mainly because the evidence shows that Davis was making threats to Dunn. This right now is corroborated by both parties and other witnesses that heard expletives being issued by Davis at Dunn.
 
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Sep 7, 2009
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Wow, go to the beggining of this thread and read Spatially's comments... .....one hell of a 180.



Look at my posting history. I base my opinions on all available facts and evidence, and logical conclusions. It's sometimes difficult for someone to accept that, particularly progressive bleeding hearts.


Unless more evidence comes out, I think what dunn did was wrong. I don't necessarily think he'll get convicted though... The whole shotgun thing creates a LOT of reasonable doubt.


A lot of this case rides on the thug felon crew's phone records. If anything comes out that they called to get someone to recover the missing shotgun then dunn is a free man, and can go on to write his own book.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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Look at my posting history. I base my opinions on all available facts and evidence, and logical conclusions. It's sometimes difficult for someone to accept that, particularly progressive bleeding hearts.


Unless more evidence comes out, I think what dunn did was wrong. I don't necessarily think he'll get convicted though... The whole shotgun thing creates a LOT of reasonable doubt.


A lot of this case rides on the thug felon crew's phone records. If anything comes out that they called to get someone to recover the missing shotgun then dunn is a free man, and can go on to write his own book.

If you were truly honest you would admit your characterization was always

Dunn...good guy
black kids...bad guys

Despite evidence all you effort was geared to prove the above.
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
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Wow, go to the beggining of this thread and read Spatially's comments... .....one hell of a 180.

Don't fall for it. Notice how he admits that Dunn murdered Jordan...but still refers to Jordan and his friends as the "Felon Thug Crew" along with his belief that the Shotgun STILL exists.