Teenager shot dead after playing loud music

[Geosurface]

Capt Caveman, the thing with the jewelry is much like what you see in this case now with the attorney's comment.

Available online briefly then quickly expunged.

The jewelry report from Trayvon's school security guard was leaked, eliminated... and now remembered. All his school records were sealed, and now no sight has the balls to host the direct information anymore.

But those of us who have paid attention from the outset of the Trayvon thing saw it.

And I believe that in time it may resurface, since GZ has very good lawyers.

 

[HumblePie]

POST A LINK. Or you're just lying more. This time, your posting in OT for everyone to see you lie your way out of this one.

Umm, he's referencing a logical deduction I posted in the Trayvon Martin thread. I made a link to several news articles that had some details of the possible stolen jewelry found in Trayvon's backpack that school officials found. I made the conjecture that based on what was said in the article of what was found, and how many pieces, I did an average jewelry price assumption. Putting the price just over $1000 or so in jewelry. I never said it was worth that much, just that taken from the evidence we knew at the time to probably be that much.

 

[They Live]

Speaking from a logical discourse standpoint under the assumption they had a gun, it is easy to see.

Once the gun was dumped and that evidence is hidden, you still have to deal with someone that is dying in your vehicle. Your two options are to drive to the nearest hospital yourself, or wait at the scene where you KNOW help is coming for you. As an added bonus, without the presence of the gun anymore, it's much easier to fabricate a story in time that doesn't mentioned they had a gun and threatened Dunn first.

With the gun removed, it's easier to garner sympathy from police officers due to the presence of a dying "friend" at the time instead of suspicion from those officers.

As for denied bail, the judge doesn't have to grant it. If the judge is trying to not have to deal with fallout from poltical/media problems like what happened with George Zimmerman recently, it stands to reason a judge would rather do a CYA and not grant bail.

Also, there is still there fact Dunn fled the scene of the crime. That might have gone into the judge's decision that he could be a flight risk.

All these are just logical deductions assuming certain possibilities to the scenario happened. What I'm trying to make a point is that making logical speculation based on what we know is fine and dandy so long as you KNOW that it's pure speculation at this point for either side of this case. Making blanket statements that Dunn is either guilty or innocent right now is just being stupid.

Are you saying Spidey and SpartiallyAware are being stupid?

 

[Capt Caveman]

Again.. The issue isn't the music. It's them threatening his life and, based on the evidence we have thus far, pointing a shotgun at him.

And link for what?? All of this stuff has been proven ad nauseum... It's just like the trayvon thread, if the evidence doesn't fit your agenda then it must not be true. Rofl..


I hope this one actually makes it to trial, but based on what we know thus far I doubt it will happen.

AGAIN POST A LINK OF THE VALUE OF THAT JEWELRY. I asked you about five times in the other thread and you couldn't. But it didn't stop you from lying and making-up stuff.

The issue is the music. B/c no issue would have even occurred if he left the teenagers alone for doing nothing illegal and blew a gasket when they told him to fuck off and turned the music up louder.

 

[HumblePie]

Capt Caveman, the thing with the jewelry is much like what you see in this case now with the attorney's comment.

Available online briefly then quickly expunged.

The jewelry report from Trayvon's school security guard was leaked, eliminated... and now remembered. All his school records were sealed, and now no sight has the balls to host the direct information anymore.

But those of us who have paid attention from the outset of the Trayvon thing saw it.

And I believe that in time it may resurface, since GZ has very good lawyers.

The judge already granted the sealed records of any past misconduct from Trayvon be released to the defense. That privilege was granted at the last hearing. Whether that motion has been fulfilled or not at this time I don't know. I do know the prosecution has a history of not exactly succeeding to demands from the defense to hand over their evidence in a timely manner as they are suppose to. Or handing over BAD evidence as in the case of the original photo of George Zimmerman's nose being busted at the scene of the incident.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Umm, he's referencing a logical deduction I posted in the Trayvon Martin thread. I made a link to several news articles that had some details of the possible stolen jewelry found in Trayvon's backpack that school officials found. I made the conjecture that based on what was said in the article of what was found, and how many pieces, I did an average jewelry price assumption. Putting the price just over $1000 or so in jewelry. I never said it was worth that much, just that taken from the evidence we knew at the time to probably be that much.

Please read his posts in that thread where he lies about what was found and I posted a link of what was found. Then he went from $1k to upwards of $20k. Every time I asked him to post a link and he couldn't.

If you check, none of my replies or his were in regard to the value of the jewelry that you may have posted on.

 

[HumblePie]

Are you saying Spidey and SpartiallyAware are being stupid?

Use your own logical deduction skills

 

[HumblePie]

Please read his posts in that thread where he lies about what was found and I posted a link of what was found. Then he went from $1k to upwards of $20k. Every time I asked him to post a link and he couldn't.

If you check, none of my replies in regard to the value of the jewelry were to you.

You may not have been referencing anything I stipulated, but I was answering your question as to the claim of $1000 of stolen jewelry SA was talking about.

If you go to that other thread, you can find in there the long discourse about that jewelry found in TM backpack. Many people for TM tried to downplay the value of that jewelry as well as to stipulate that it wasn't stolen. As far as it being stolen goods, the public has no idea if those items were stolen or not. The value was certainly ascertained at one point but not made public knowledge that I was aware off. But the article talking about it did mention the jewelry was real gold and diamonds which included rings, watches, and earrings. Real gold and diamond jewelry usually isn't cheap.

 

[soundforbjt]

Speaking from a logical discourse standpoint under the assumption they had a gun, it is easy to see.

Once the gun was dumped and that evidence is hidden, you still have to deal with someone that is dying in your vehicle. Your two options are to drive to the nearest hospital yourself, or wait at the scene where you KNOW help is coming for you. As an added bonus, without the presence of the gun anymore, it's much easier to fabricate a story in time that doesn't mentioned they had a gun and threatened Dunn first.

With the gun removed, it's easier to garner sympathy from police officers due to the presence of a dying "friend" at the time instead of suspicion from those officers.

As for denied bail, the judge doesn't have to grant it. If the judge is trying to not have to deal with fallout from poltical/media problems like what happened with George Zimmerman recently, it stands to reason a judge would rather do a CYA and not grant bail.

Also, there is still there fact Dunn fled the scene of the crime. That might have gone into the judge's decision that he could be a flight risk.

All these are just logical deductions assuming certain possibilities to the scenario happened. What I'm trying to make a point is that making logical speculation based on what we know is fine and dandy so long as you KNOW that it's pure speculation at this point for either side of this case. Making blanket statements that Dunn is either guilty or innocent right now is just being stupid.

Course the only problem is there's no evidence of any shotgun, without the "shotgun", Dunn is done.

 

[spidey07]

They didn't just tell him to fuck off.

They made multiple direct threats to his life along with disparity of force. As far as law is concerned its the same as car hacking. As such he is allowed to fire in self defense.

 

[blankslate]

Again, I am not saying there was a gun, just giving a logical argument for there being a gun and how/why it could have been hidden.

Which is why Mr. Dunn (if the hypothetical shotgun is a reality) screwed himself by leaving the scene. Leaving the scene after a shooting even a justified one (if you take at face value the claims of seeing a shotgun) looks incredibly shady.

where did the SUV go. Did the person shot even arrive at an emergency room?

I'm sorry but if you are involved in a justifiable shooting and you run off (which may be acceptable if there was a further threat) it's incredibly suspicious to not contact the police immediately thereafter.

Which seems unlikely if the link in the OP is accurate.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...r-loud-music-row/story-fnat7jnn-1226525359103

Mr Dunn, whose girlfriend was buying in a convenience store when the incident occurred, was in town for his son's wedding. He left the scene and returned to his hotel but he was later traced from closed-circuit television footage.

If Mr. Dunn was justified in the shooting shooting why didn't he stay and wait for police and if he was forced to flee out of fear for his life (which doesn't seem to be the case) why he didn't make other efforts to contact the authorities?

The article makes it sound like he didn't do that. So we need more information.

However, leaving the scene given the details available doesn't look good.

Remember the story about the shotgun from article I have seen are based on what Mr. Dunn has said so that depends on how much credibility you give him.

As far as I know witnesses from the store and it seems that there were at least one or two do have not yet been described as corroborating or denying Mr. Dunn's statement (or being able to conclusively say either way) detailed by the media, or released by the police.

 

[HumblePie]

Course the only problem is there's no evidence of any shotgun, without the "shotgun", Dunn is done.

Exactly. And if there was a shotgun, then ditching it before the police arrived was a brilliant move on their part. That is if there was a shotgun in their possession. If there was and they did hide it, then giving a story as to why they drove off and came back could be as simple as...

"Yes officer I drove off at first. I thought we could make it to the hospital in time. I admit I was panicking. We all were. But after I got a little ways, my friend here said to go back since the police and help would more than likely make it back to the gas station before we got to the hospital. So we came back after I thought about it."





Just to be certain everyone knows, what I posted above is not a statement I know to be made from anyone at the scene. Just something that could have been said to cover why they left the scene and came back. It could also be something said or something like it because that was the reason they left and there was no shotgun.

 

[soundforbjt]

They didn't just tell him to fuck off.

They made multiple direct threats to his life along with disparity of force. As far as law is concerned its the same as car hacking. As such he is allowed to fire in self defense.

You got proof of that from any "real" witnesses other than the accused murderer?

 

[HumblePie]

Which is why Mr. Dunn (if the hypothetical shotgun is a reality) screwed himself by leaving the scene. Leaving the scene after a shooting even a justified one (if you take at face value the claims of seeing a shotgun) looks incredibly shady.

where did the SUV go. Did the person shot even arrive at an emergency room?

I'm sorry but if you are involved in a justifiable shooting and you run off (which may be acceptable if there was a further threat) it's incredibly suspicious to not contact the police immediately thereafter.

Which seems unlikely if the link in the OP is accurate.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...r-loud-music-row/story-fnat7jnn-1226525359103


If Mr. Dunn was justified in the shooting shooting why didn't he stay and wait for police and if he was forced to flee out of fear for his life (which doesn't seem to be the case) why he didn't make other efforts to contact the authorities?

The article makes it sound like he didn't do that. So we need more information.

However, leaving the scene given the details available doesn't look good.

I agree. He was an idiot to flee. Or flee too far and never call the cops. Straight up stupid. However, if the shooting was justified, there is nothing illegal about it. Just stupid in hindsight. That is something we can ALL agree on at least.

 

[Pens1566]

They didn't just tell him to fuck off.

They made multiple direct threats to his life along with disparity of force. As far as law is concerned its the same as car hacking. As such he is allowed to fire in self defense.

Because you were there. Right.

 

[Capt Caveman]

You may not have been referencing anything I stipulated, but I was answering your question as to the claim of $1000 of stolen jewelry SA was talking about.

If you go to that other thread, you can find in there the long discourse about that jewelry found in TM backpack. Many people for TM tried to downplay the value of that jewelry as well as to stipulate that it wasn't stolen. As far as it being stolen goods, the public has no idea if those items were stolen or not. The value was certainly ascertained at one point but not made public knowledge that I was aware off. But the article talking about it did mention the jewelry was real gold and diamonds which included rings, watches, and earrings. Real gold and diamond jewelry usually isn't cheap.

And all I'm getting at with SA is the lying he did around this issue. You're free to look up his posts in that thread. From what was in the bag which I provided a link to, to the value increasing post after post. So, please drop it, I wasn't responding to you in that thread.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

And all I'm getting at with SA is the lying he did around this issue. You're free to look up his posts in that thread. From what was in the bag which I provided a link to, to the value increasing post after post. So, please drop it, I wasn't responding to you in that thread.

OMFG... No kidding, we have gone through this countless times and you refuse to see anything other than what you want to see. It is a total waste of time (and a derailment of this thread, so this is my last post about it) to debate something when I have proven you wrong over, and over, and over...

Reports started out saying it was (I don't recall exactly) like 8 pieces. Then it was 10+ including watches and wedding bands (likely from the home invasions in zimmermans gated community which trayvon trafficked down to miami to sell). Then someone involved in the case admitted it was "real gold, real diamonds, not costume jewelry".

The estimated value went up as we got more factual information. It's too bad that trayvon was a minor, so all news reports were pulled - but those of us involved from the beginning knew what was going on.


So yes, I am capable of changing my opinion based on new facts that come out - much better than you, who comes to a racially-based conclusion on the first few tidbits of info and refuse to open your mind to anything else.

 

[Pens1566]

OMFG... No kidding, we have gone through this countless times and you refuse to see anything other than what you want to see. It is a total waste of time (and a derailment of this thread, so this is my last post about it) to debate something when I have proven you wrong over, and over, and over...

I just wanted to quote this part of the post for hilarity.

 

[Capt Caveman]

OMFG... No kidding, we have gone through this countless times and you refuse to see anything other than what you want to see. It is a total waste of time (and a derailment of this thread, so this is my last post about it) to debate something when I have proven you wrong over, and over, and over...

Reports started out saying it was (I don't recall exactly) like 8 pieces. Then it was 10+ including watches and wedding bands (likely from the home invasions in zimmermans gated community which trayvon trafficked down to miami to sell). Then someone involved in the case admitted it was "real gold, real diamonds, not costume jewelry".

The estimated value went up as we got more factual information. It's too bad that trayvon was a minor, so all news reports were pulled - but those of us involved from the beginning knew what was going on.


So yes, I am capable of changing my opinion based on new facts that come out - much better than you, who comes to a racially-based conclusion on the first few tidbits of info and refuse to open your mind to anything else.

LINK? :biggrin:

 

[mugs]

Don't rush to judgement.

But some of you in this thread, and it's most of you frankly... decided he was the devil from the word go. Don't be so hasty. As we've been saying, doesn't the "45 year old businessman driving home from son's wedding decides to unload on strangers for not turning their music down" y'know... fail your sniff test?

It's funny how you're so quick to defend Dunn because we shouldn't rush to judgment, but the occupants of the SUV are being judged guilty of various felonies in this thread and that doesn't bother you. Actually, in your rush to not judge Dunn you've speculated that the kids in the SUV committed those felonies.

We shouldn't be judging anyone involved in this yet, because we don't know what happened. Assuming Dunn is innocent is not withholding judgment, because if you assume Dunn is innocent then you have assumed the kids in the SUV are criminals.

(In case it wasn't clear, my previous comments accusing Dunn of being a drunken, depressed, absentee father were parodying the equally baseless assumptions of certain bigots in this thread)

 

[blankslate]

I found an interview with a legal expert from a Jacksonville Fl. station

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/...2/611/Legal-analysis-of-the-Jordan-Davis-case

it's interesting since it indicates that Mr. Dunn is certain there was a shotgun but then it also indicates that Mr. Dunn indeed made no effort to contact authorities.

In other words it raises more questions that it answers.

Especially (imo) when you wonder what the witnesses mentioned in the video have said to the police.


*edit*

Main link for all of the television stations coverage of the shooting.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/jordandavis/default.aspx

 

[spidey07]

That's what's going to get him deep trouble. If you ever have to shoot in self defense you want to be the first to call 911.

There have been many other cases where the legit shooter fled out of fear. But they were also calling 911 while they did. No charges filed.

 

[TerryMathews]

I found an interview with a legal expert from a Jacksonville Fl. station

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/...2/611/Legal-analysis-of-the-Jordan-Davis-case

it's interesting since it indicates that Mr. Dunn is certain there was a shotgun but then it also indicates that Mr. Dunn indeed made no effort to contact authorities.

In other words it raises more questions that it answers.

Especially (imo) when you wonder what the witnesses mentioned in the video have said to the police.

Regardless of whether or not there was a shotgun Dunn fucked himself by leaving and not calling 911.

That is the pivotal difference between this case and Zimmerman.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

That's what's going to get him deep trouble. If you ever have to shoot in self defense you want to be the first to call 911.

There have been many other cases where the legit shooter fled out of fear. But they were also calling 911 while they did. No charges filed.

From what we know as fact thus far, Dunn didn't think he hit anybody.

It really validates that he truly thought they were a bunch of thugs. What do thugs do when they're shot at? Call in more thugs. He didn't want to be around when they showed up. Since he didn't hit anyone, no point in calling the cops. The SUV was leaving anyway (to ditch the gun) so he went on home as well.


....Again, it's not what I would do, but in a jury trial I really don't think it will hold much weight considering the felon and man on probation in the SUV. Society does not care about thugs, most of us are completely sick of them. A jury of 12? Hah.

 

[blankslate]

Regardless of whether or not there was a shotgun Dunn fucked himself by leaving and not calling 911.

Like the lawyer in the clip said "It's hard to believe that there's a case that would make George Zimmerman's case look good. But this would be it."

George Zimmerman at least didn't flee the scene of the shooting.

From what we know as fact thus far, Dunn didn't think he hit anybody.

The problem was that he didn't immediately call the police when he saw the news report on television that informed him that there was indeed a fatality. (which in my opinion is the very last opportunity for him to actually make that call before he actually starts looking shady) he still waited for the police to contact him.

was he hoping that they wouldn't be able to track him down?