Teenager shot dead after playing loud music

[rudeguy]

So many people tried to compare the facts between the two cases but the only real similarity I see is the DA overcharged again and it cost them the case. I wonder if Corey felt like she had to win big after losing the GZ case. It sounds like if Dunn had been charged with manslaughter or Murder 2, he would be sitting in jail right now like he should be.

Guy shoots unarmed teenager

That is enough of a fact for me to start comparing the two. You seem to have missed that big similarity. How did you miss that?

 

[brycejones]

So many people tried to compare the facts between the two cases but the only real similarity I see is the DA overcharged again and it cost them the case. I wonder if Corey felt like she had to win big after losing the GZ case. It sounds like if Dunn had been charged with manslaughter or Murder 2, he would be sitting in jail right now like he should be.

He was convicted on 3 counts that mean he will be spending at least 60 years in prison. The only part of the case to be retried is the charge for the kid he killed. Dunn will die in prison most likely.

 

[Daverino]

So many people tried to compare the facts between the two cases but the only real similarity I see is the DA overcharged again and it cost them the case. I wonder if Corey felt like she had to win big after losing the GZ case. It sounds like if Dunn had been charged with manslaughter or Murder 2, he would be sitting in jail right now like he should be.

I just commented on this a few posts ago. Dunn was charged implicitly with murder 2 simply by being charged with murder 1. The jury had the ability to convict Dunn on murder 2 and did not because three jurors did not see Dunn as guilty of any crime against Davis. So if Dunn had been charged with murder 2, the outcome would have been the same with this jury.

Charging someone with murder 1 in Florida is not an 'all-or-nothing' proposition. The jury can decide to drop the charge to murder 2 or manslaughter. What they can NOT do is convict of murder 1 if the prosecutor has only charged murder 2. In other words, the jury can go down in severity, but never up. This is why the prosecutors choose the highest possible charge and leave it to the jurors to lower the severity of the charge if they see fit.

 

[Capt Caveman]

So many people tried to compare the facts between the two cases but the only real similarity I see is the DA overcharged again and it cost them the case. I wonder if Corey felt like she had to win big after losing the GZ case. It sounds like if Dunn had been charged with manslaughter or Murder 2, he would be sitting in jail right now like he should be.

Incorrect on all accounts.

The jury could have charged Dunn on the 1st Count with Murder 2 or Manslaughter.

The jury did convict on Counts 2-5 with Murder 2.

He's been in jail since being arrested and will remain so more than likely for the rest of his life.

 

[cubby1223]

If you want to go down that path...

What threat have I ever made to you personally, in person, having the means to carry out that threat via proximity or disparity of force?

See where reasonable person comes into play?

This is all covered in state mandated ccdw classes.

You are relying on two assumptions:

(1) the person you are confronting is not a paranoid threat-seeking nut-job.
(2) there will always be quality witnesses to your actions

And let's not forget THE BIG FUCKING POINT that once someone perceives you as a threat, regardless of legitimacy, and shoots you dead, it doesn't matter if that person is found guilty or not guilty, YOU ARE STILL STONE COLD [size=+2]DEAD[/size]. When the shooter is convicted of murder, I'm sorry but you do not receive your life back.



The only option your world vision presents to the sane, reasonable portion of this country, is vote for laws limiting the "freedoms" of paranoid threat-seeking nut-jobs like yourself. You are a threat to everyone around you whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Congratulations, spidey, I used to be strongly anti-gun control. You have shown me the error in my ways.

 

[highland145]

They did. The charge of first degree, in the case that just concluded, included lesser included charges of 2nd degree and manslaughter. In other words, the jury could have found Dunn guilty of 2nd degree if they felt 1st was not warranted. However, the jury was split amongst members believing he was guilty of one of the three charges and three jurors who felt he was not guilty of any of the charges.

If all 12 had believed he was guilty of some crime regarding Davis they would have convicted of a lesser charge. Since Florida allows lesser included charges, I think the strategy is always to go in with the highest possible charge and let the jury consider the range of charges. I don't know if that strategy will change in the retrial.

Thanks.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

You are relying on two assumptions:

(1) the person you are confronting is not a paranoid threat-seeking nut-job.
(2) there will always be quality witnesses to your actions

And let's not forget THE BIG FUCKING POINT that once someone perceives you as a threat, regardless of legitimacy, and shoots you dead, it doesn't matter if that person is found guilty or not guilty, YOU ARE STILL STONE COLD [SIZE=+2]DEAD[/SIZE]. When the shooter is convicted of murder, I'm sorry but you do not receive your life back.


<snip>

Like it or not, support for gun control in this country has gone way way down. CCW rates are skyrocketing.


There are plenty of crazy people who have not been diagnosed, who can legally CCW. There are plenty of crazy people who have been diagnosed but don't care about the laws behind CCW.


So, perhaps you should think twice before showing a shotgun at a poor old man who has politely asked you to turn down the music. He may just be crazy, or not care about the law, and blow your head off. That's the simple fact, and it's not going to change.


Weird though, I am not at all bothered by these facts. I don't threaten people, I don't confront people, I don't relate with thug culture. If you do these things then you have a right to be worried.

 

[HomerJS]

Like it or not, support for gun control in this country has gone way way down. CCW rates are skyrocketing.


There are plenty of crazy people who have not been diagnosed, who can legally CCW. There are plenty of crazy people who have been diagnosed but don't care about the laws behind CCW.


So, perhaps you should think twice before showing a shotgun at a poor old man who has politely asked you to turn down the music. He may just be crazy, or not care about the law, and blow your head off. That's the simple fact, and it's not going to change.


Weird though, I am not at all bothered by these facts. I don't threaten people, I don't confront people, I don't relate with thug culture. If you do these things then you have a right to be worried.

Continuing to make shit up must take a lot of effort just to make sure massa is always right.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Continuing to make shit up must take a lot of effort just to make sure massa is always right.

You do realize that the ONLY reason dunn is in jail is due to him shooting into the back of the SUV?

If he stopped shooting as they pulled away he would be A-OK in the clear.

So don't act like this was some overwhelmingly clear verdict...... Or act like dunn acted outside the bounds of the law. Morally, I agree, he is a dumbass. But legally, everything was spot-on except for the 3-4 rounds as they drove away.


Just keep that in mind the next time you're mean mugging someone due to their skin color.. That as dumb as this guy is, that was the only thing that put him in jail.

 

[thraashman]

Like it or not, support for gun control in this country has gone way way down. CCW rates are skyrocketing.


There are plenty of crazy people who have not been diagnosed, who can legally CCW. There are plenty of crazy people who have been diagnosed but don't care about the laws behind CCW.


So, perhaps you should think twice before showing a shotgun at a poor old man who has politely asked you to turn down the music. He may just be crazy, or not care about the law, and blow your head off. That's the simple fact, and it's not going to change.


Weird though, I am not at all bothered by these facts. I don't threaten people, I don't confront people, I don't relate with thug culture. If you do these things then you have a right to be worried.

No shotgun was ever shown. There is exactly ZERO evidence of any gun other than Dunn's. The only thug present was the man who fired upon unarmed young men, Dunn. The only thug culture is people who support gunning down innocent youths. In other words people like you. Stop making shit up that has zero evidence to support it.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I don't know if there truly was a shotgun in the car and I doubt we will ever no one way the other 100%, too bad the police chose to wait 3-4 days before actively searching the area for one. Personally I think Jordan Davis decided he was going to scare the crap out of Dunn however, he didn't realize Dunn was armed. Dunn took the threat seriously and let loose with several volleys of rounds.

 

[himkhan]

Continuing to make shit up must take a lot of effort just to make sure massa is always right.

LOL come on man!

Old Man = 47
Young Buck = 43

He's playing you a game! It is agreeable that at 45 you go though a short mid life crisis before becoming old man! Text book trolling. 😛

 

[Daverino]

1. Only Dunn said he saw a shotgun
2. Nobody had ever seen any of the youths have a shotgun in the past
3. None of the youths had any criminal activity that might make one suppose they would have a shotgun
4. The Durango was out of the parking lot for about five minutes and was under observation the entire time. No one saw a shotgun then.
5. The Durango and the surviving youths returned to the scene rather than flee.
6. The area was not searched immediately because the only person who claimed there was a shotgun fled the scene and did not report it to the police until the next day.
7. Nobody from the Durango returned fire after Dunn opened fire.
8. Davis would have no need to open his door if he had a shotgun and his window was already down. Dunn's statements that Davis opened his door and Davis had a shotgun are at odds with each other.

In my honest opinion, the shotgun was self-serving testimony introduced by Dunn. Maybe he saw *something* He said in his police deposition he may have seen a stick. But it seems obvious to me that whatever he saw was not a shotgun.

 

[HumblePie]

I don't know if there truly was a shotgun in the car and I doubt we will ever no one way the other 100%, too bad the police chose to wait 3-4 days before actively searching the area for one. Personally I think Jordan Davis decided he was going to scare the crap out of Dunn however, he didn't realize Dunn was armed. Dunn took the threat seriously and let loose with several volleys of rounds.

Doesn't have to be? (to the bolded)

Full size camera tripod was found underneath Davis's seat. He could have pulled that up and was using it as a scare tactic to make the other person think they had a gun. Grab it so the legs are pointing forward like a barrel and squeeze two of the legs together in a hold like you are holding a long-gun. Hide the rest of it behind the door panel so only the last few inches could be seen above the window from Dunn's perspective. There you go, an object being used by Davis to pretend to intimidate and threaten Dunn while that object could be construed as a shotgun.

This would also explain what the kids were doing when they drove off. They weren't stashing anything in the parking lot. They were taking the tripod out of Davis's hands and putting it under the car seat so it didn't look like he had a weapon in his hands anymore. This way no one sees them take anything out of the car, and the cops realize later there is no weapon. Very plausible scenario and I'm very surprised the defense never went after that aspect. Camera tripod was found under the seat. Defense just needs to take a picture of someone holding the tripod in a way that Dunn would have seen it from his perspective and shown that picture to the jury. The picture would have shown how Davis could have been using the tripod as a prop to intimidate Dunn. While he may have been doing it more as a way to scare the guy, and was not thinking anything would come of it. Dunn said several times when Davis was getting out of the SUV it looked like he was pushing and banging up the inside of the door when he saw the edge of a gun sticking peeking out into the window area.

That's really all the defense had to do. Show that, show how the trajectory of the bullets to the back door match the fact that the door had to be open when Dunn shot if Dunn had pulled in all the way into the parking spot.

Then explain the "stashing" the witnesses saw when the SUV drove off as the teens in the SUV putting the tripod back under the seat and out of Davis's hands. As that probably was the case in this scenario.

It still doesn't excuse what Dunn did in continuing to fire after the teens as they drove off. Those extra 4 shots are criminal even if the above is all true. He should be in prison for firing the extra shots in my opinion.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

You left out the part where two of the individuals wasn't seen all the time by witnesses after they returned to the store. As well as one of those individuals family came to the store during the time they weren't seen by witnesses.

 

[cubby1223]

Like it or not, support for gun control in this country has gone way way down. CCW rates are skyrocketing.


There are plenty of crazy people who have not been diagnosed, who can legally CCW. There are plenty of crazy people who have been diagnosed but don't care about the laws behind CCW.


So, perhaps you should think twice before showing a shotgun at a poor old man who has politely asked you to turn down the music. He may just be crazy, or not care about the law, and blow your head off. That's the simple fact, and it's not going to change.


Weird though, I am not at all bothered by these facts. I don't threaten people, I don't confront people, I don't relate with thug culture. If you do these things then you have a right to be worried.

You have just proven yourself incapable of recognizing what are facts and what are not.

People who cannot distinguish fact from fiction, especially when they carry guns and seek to shoot perceived threats dead, are dangerous people.

That's the fucking point, a certain type of people seek to shoot threats dead, and it has been more than clearly demonstrated by recent events that they do not need to perceive the situation in the same way you do before firing the bullets from their gun. If you don't see the danger there in that situation...



There was no shotgun. Never was a shotgun. Therefore, a paranoid nut-job can perceive a threat in your actions that you never did, and shoot you dead. But in your mind, people who have received a CCW are knowledged and trained and never would shoot an innocent, this must be the case for you to so ferociously want there to have been a shotgun in that situation. But there was no shotgun. Your perception of reality is wrong.

 

[HumblePie]

1. Only Dunn said he saw a shotgun
2. Nobody had ever seen any of the youths have a shotgun in the past
3. None of the youths had any criminal activity that might make one suppose they would have a shotgun
4. The Durango was out of the parking lot for about five minutes and was under observation the entire time. No one saw a shotgun then.
5. The Durango and the surviving youths returned to the scene rather than flee.
6. The area was not searched immediately because the only person who claimed there was a shotgun fled the scene and did not report it to the police until the next day.
7. Nobody from the Durango returned fire after Dunn opened fire.
8. Davis would have no need to open his door if he had a shotgun and his window was already down. Dunn's statements that Davis opened his door and Davis had a shotgun are at odds with each other.

In my honest opinion, the shotgun was self-serving testimony introduced by Dunn. Maybe he saw *something* He said in his police deposition he may have seen a stick. But it seems obvious to me that whatever he saw was not a shotgun.

Doesn't have to be a shotgun at all when that camera tripod was found under Davis's seat.

Push one leg down and away. Squeeze the other two legs together with your hands like you are holding the foregrip of a shotgun. Only let a few inches of the end of the legs show from Dunn's perspective through the window. Doing it in such a way and people could construe it as a gun from that perspective. It would not be a gun. Which means no gun would ever be found. But it doesn't mean Dunn didn't think he was a shotgun from where he was sitting at. Anyone out pumping gas, if they looked which no one did, would only see a camera tripod in a kids hands. The other passengers in the SUV can truthfully claim there was no gun in the SUV or that Davis had no gun. Those would be truthful statements.

But if that was what Davis used, it would make Dunn think it was a gun and that he would be justified in self defense.

 

[Daverino]

Tinfoilhattery

Spin, spin, spin.

Coming up with a highly unlikely if not completely implausible scenario may be 'doubt' but it certainly isn't a reasonable one.

No blood on the tripod.
Doesn't explain why the Durango returned.
Doesn't explain why Dunn didn't mention a weapon to his girlfriend.
Doesn't explain why Dunn didn't report a weapon to the police until the next day.

The first time anyone knows anything about a 'shotgun' or a 'stick' is a day later in a holding cell hundreds of miles from the crime scene. Dunn would never have been found had someone not written down his license plate as he drove away.

I swear you must be an evidence instantiating wizard. I pray you never get selected for a jury.

 

[Druidx]

Guy shoots unarmed teenager

That is enough of a fact for me to start comparing the two. You seem to have missed that big similarity. How did you miss that?

LOL at you, if that is what you honestly reduce the whole case down too.

 

[HomerJS]

You do realize that the ONLY reason dunn is in jail is due to him shooting into the back of the SUV?

If he stopped shooting as they pulled away he would be A-OK in the clear.

So don't act like this was some overwhelmingly clear verdict...... Or act like dunn acted outside the bounds of the law. Morally, I agree, he is a dumbass. But legally, everything was spot-on except for the 3-4 rounds as they drove away.


Just keep that in mind the next time you're mean mugging someone due to their skin color.. That as dumb as this guy is, that was the only thing that put him in jail.

Probably would still be in jail awaiting next trial. We'll see what happens in May

 

[Druidx]

He was convicted on 3 counts that mean he will be spending at least 60 years in prison. The only part of the case to be retried is the charge for the kid he killed. Dunn will die in prison most likely.

I understand that, I meant if the case only involved the boy who died. My mistake, I should have been more clear.

 

[HumblePie]

Spin, spin, spin.

Coming up with a highly unlikely if not completely implausible scenario may be 'doubt' but it certainly isn't a reasonable one.

No blood on the tripod.
Doesn't explain why the Durango returned.
Doesn't explain why Dunn didn't mention a weapon to his girlfriend.
Doesn't explain why Dunn didn't report a weapon to the police until the next day.

The first time anyone knows anything about a 'shotgun' or a 'stick' is a day later in a holding cell hundreds of miles from the crime scene. Dunn would never have been found had someone not written down his license plate as he drove away.

I swear you must be an evidence instantiating wizard. I pray you never get selected for a jury.

LOL, why would there be blood on the tripod. Real life aren't Quentin Tarantino movies. There isn't an arterial spurt every time someone gets injured. Davis was hit once and he wouldn't have died immediately from the shot either. I would have been enough time to sit back down, put the tripod in the seat next to him, grab his stomach wound, and bleed out to death after that.

Who cares why the SUV returned? They saw that Dunn had sped off and the living teens didn't want to be seen as the culprits especially when one was on felony probation already.

According to the GF Dunn didn't want to say anything about the incident. Who cares if he didn't say anything about a gun. Both stated he said nothing much other than he shot because he was afraid for his life. I'm pretty sure the guy was internalizing the whole scenario in his head for many hours after that. Any person would.

As far as the next day, that was the first time Dunn was interogated by police. Of course he is at that point is going to tell the full side of his story as he saw it if the shooting was self defense. Now if he waited a week or a month that would have been one thing, but he started talking about Davis having a gun from his first interrogation with police.

You are the one spinning this into not seeing how a camera tripod would fit the scenario and all the physical and testimonial evidence presented.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Like it or not, support for gun control in this country has gone way way down. CCW rates are skyrocketing.


There are plenty of crazy people who have not been diagnosed, who can legally CCW. There are plenty of crazy people who have been diagnosed but don't care about the laws behind CCW.


So, perhaps you should think twice before showing a shotgun at a poor old man who has politely asked you to turn down the music. He may just be crazy, or not care about the law, and blow your head off. That's the simple fact, and it's not going to change.


Weird though, I am not at all bothered by these facts. I don't threaten people, I don't confront people, I don't relate with thug culture. If you do these things then you have a right to be worried.

You do know that is how the neighbors of a serial killer describes him. "Nice and polite. Didn't threaten or confront anyone." Think we should get the Mods to mention your name and address to the FBI for investigation.

 

[rudeguy]

LOL at you, if that is what you honestly reduce the whole case down too.

Are you saying that doesn't make the two similar?

 

[Daverino]

You are the one spinning this into not seeing how a camera tripod would fit the scenario and all the physical and testimonial evidence presented.

So you're saying that the defense had great physical evidence in the tripod yet never introduced it as a probable explanation, never showed it to the jury, never so much as introduced a picture of the tripod found. You're saying that the tripod was removed from Davis' grip and stowed carefully under the seat in such a way that it would have been inaccessible to Davis without getting a drop of his blood on it in the span of five minutes. And that this happened because the three survivors in the car were more concerned about hiding evidence than about their friend who had just been shot and was bleeding out. AND that these three young men were forward thinking enough to know that Dunn might claim later that a tripod might look like a shotgun and their familiarity with Florida law was great enough that they wanted to remove the possibility of Dunn using it as evidence in a trial.

MAN!

That defense attorney was HORRIBLE! You figured it all out without even seeing the tripod. Boy Dunn must be PISSED you weren't defending him.