Teen dies after falling over 594 feet waterfall.

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lxskllr

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,901
11,244
126
DrPizza said:
And, the water's force does not "squirt" you towards shore - take a physics class, please. Imagine a 30 foot wide conveyor belt that you're in the center of. Walking at a 45 degree angle toward the side is not going to use the "conveyor's force to squirt you towards shore."

In situations such as this that was presented, you're not going to be able to swim fast enough to maintain your place along the shoreline anyway.
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Because fluid dynamics is exactly the same as a conveyor belt, right? I'd expect someone that professes to paddle whitewater would know about ferrying...
 
BoberFett

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
DCal430 said:
So here is a warning that is posted at river near were he was swimming:

Seems like a case of darwin at work.
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Are you sure? Maybe we should ban waterfalls? Waterfall viewing permits? And construct safety features around all of them?
 
Imp

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
106
DCal430 said:
Though here is a picture of were he was swimming,

it does look a bit inviting. Seems others may swim here to, looks popular.

2ztcz6x.jpg
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That is a gorgeous park.
 
Nintendesert

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
lxskllr said:
Because fluid dynamics is exactly the same as a conveyor belt, right? I'd expect someone that professes to paddle whitewater would know about ferrying...
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I figure you would just treat it like a riptide and swim towards shore as hard as you could. With the current moving as fast as it was I don't it really would have mattered though, 150' isn't much room to get to shore.
 
T

tHa ShIzNiT

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2000
2,321
8
81
I honestly think the sign isnt good enough, and they probably just shouldn't let people swim up there at all. The resulting lawsuits arent worth it, I'd imagine.
 
lxskllr

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,901
11,244
126
Nintendesert said:
I figure you would just treat it like a riptide and swim towards shore as hard as you could. With the current moving as fast as it was I don't it really would have mattered though, 150' isn't much room to get to shore.
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From Whitewater Rescue Manual, Walbridge & Sundmacher

Aggressive swimming in whitewater takes the form of short, hard bursts to carry you across the river, or into an eddy. To cut across the current, use a body ferry. Roll onto your belly and swim hard upstream, angling across the onrushing water with your body angling toward your goal. Compared with paddling a canoe or kayak, this is slow tiring work. Allow plenty of distance and time to make a move. Even if you can't swim to safety, it may be necessary to get from one side of the river to the other to miss nasty rocks, big holes, or strainers. This is is vital in rapids of Class IV and above.
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Edit:
incorrect attribution
 
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R

randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
5,449
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Yeah that's not how you handle riptide either. You swim parallel to the shore until you get out of it.
 
N

natto fire

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2000
7,117
10
76
DCal430 said:
Though here is a picture of were he was swimming,

it does look a bit inviting. Seems others may swim here to, looks popular.

2ztcz6x.jpg
Click to expand...

The most beautiful inviting water I have ever seen is the Double Hot springs in Nevada's Black Rock Desert.
not the best shot

Moreso because they were in the middle of one of the most desolate arid looking places I have ever been to. I was 26 when I first saw them, but it was a reminder that things are not always what they seem. The water is over 180 degrees in those springs, and just seeing that number on the sign instantly shut down any enticement the water gave. If I saw a sign that straight up said "you will die", which is very uncommon in warning signs, I would very much heed that warning.

I do remember being 19 and feeling invincible, and my driving record shows that, but driving like a dumbass and respecting things that are near certain death are two different things IMO. I won't even delve into the religious connotations because being a dumb teenager is something that crosses all races and religions.
 
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Miramonti

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,653
100
106
lxskllr said:
A lot of people don't know how to swim in a current. The fastest way to shore is facing upstream, and towards shore by about 45°. Of course, the best thing is not swimming 150' above a dangerous falls. Shit happens, and it doesn't give you much room for recovery.
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Even more people don't really know the power of water because they haven't experienced it. It's one thing to see floods and people stranded or to hear of people get swept away, but it's another to experience an undertow or the power of a river.

It wasn't until I went white water rafting and fell out of the boat that I learned to respect water. I made it over to a couple feet of water and still couldn't stand up. The force of the water was unbelievable.
 
lxskllr

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,901
11,244
126
jjsole said:
Even more people don't really know the power of water because they haven't experienced it. It's one thing to see floods and people stranded or to hear of people get swept away, but it's another to experience an undertow or the power of a river.

It wasn't until I went white water rafting and fell out of the boat that I learned to respect water. I made it over to a couple feet of water and still couldn't stand up. The force of the water was unbelievable.
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Yea, it's absolutely relentless. Many deaths on the water happen in innocuous looking locations, where people don't see the trouble until they're in it, and it's too late.
 
K

KDOG

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,525
14
81
And they still haven't found his body? Ewwwww. Its probably wedged under some rock or submerged log. That'll be messy to retrieve.
 
DrPizza

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
lxskllr said:
Because fluid dynamics is exactly the same as a conveyor belt, right? I'd expect someone that professes to paddle whitewater would know about ferrying...
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Under the assumption that the current is the same throughout the water column, no, there's no difference at all between that and a conveyor belt. In reality though, the current is not generally the same in the center as it is closer to shore.

Nonetheless, if I'm sitting in my kayak in a very fast, even current, it makes no difference which way my kayak is pointed - relative to nearby objects floating in the river, I continue moving with the same relative speed, regardless of orientation. In fact, in some water I've been on, it's quite eerie - you'll be playing near a large log that's floating, and it's almost like being in the middle of a calm lake - your movement relative to the log is unaffected by the current - exactly like my treadmill example. But then, you look up at the shoreline, and it's whizzing past.

As far as swimming toward upstream in whitewater - you always head downstream feet first, feet up high. You generally don't want to be perpendicular, because it's really going to suck if you get wrapped around a boulder. Feet up, because if your feet are low & get wedged between a couple rocks or something, you are dead. But generally, you're not worried about how far downstream you end up, lest there be a 600 foot waterfall at the end. Hence riding out a couple hundred yards of whitewater.

And ferrying - generally, it's not ferrying when the current is 3 times faster than you can paddle. If you could ferry across the river while swimming, then being swept over a falls is not a concern.
 
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lxskllr

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,901
11,244
126
DrPizza said:
And ferrying - generally, it's not ferrying when the current is 3 times faster than you can paddle. If you could ferry across the river while swimming, then being swept over a falls is not a concern.
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It's ferrying regardless of current, unless you're sitting in a pool. None of what you said changes what I said about the correct way to get to shore.
 
ch33zw1z

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,838
20,433
146
sucks to be him. but what a ride it must've been. alas, he's in a better place....right?
 
RaistlinZ

RaistlinZ

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2001
7,470
9
91
Hardcore baptism.

I wonder if the park snaps his picture on the way down like at Splash Mountain.
 
Fingolfin269

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
34
91
I wonder what it's like. Swimming along, then realizing maybe you made a bad choice so you start the fight. Somewhere along the line realization sets in. You're flailing around madly but know that you're going to go over and nothing can stop it from happening.

Then it happens.

No, I'm not going to attempt to experience this for myself. Maybe someone can wear some Google Glass for us the next time they go swimming near a waterfall.
 
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