[Techspot] BAD, BAD APU AMD A12-9800 Review: Infecting The AM4 Platform

[cbn]

Remember the FirePro APUs?

Is it too late for them to make a Bristol Ridge Version? That would be interesting considering the 1/2 rate DP ....though I do wonder about the bandwidth?

EDIT: Apparently none of the OEMs made a complete workstation using FirePro APUs (that I can find), but Sapphire did make a motherboard with ISV certification---> http://www.legitreviews.com/sapphir...platform-with-amd-a320a300-firepro-apus_14016

 

[Shmee]

Seems to me that this, and Celerons, both should not be a thing.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Seems to me that this, and Celerons, both should not be a thing.

Here's a really crazy idea. If Intel got rid of the Celeron lineup for the big-core designs... well, what to do about needing a "placeholder" CPU?

What about, putting an x86 / x64 CPU into the system chipset? And powering on the mainboard, without an additional CPU, would revert to this "built-in CPU". It could even be an Atom design, and not a big-core core. Though, that might complicated support circuitry.

I mean, they already have the ME firmware crap. What's another CPU in the chipset cost?

 

[Jan Olšan]

The silicon area of a core could be small, but you need GPU and other infrastructure too. And the hard TM problem would be your memory controller. If you routed the DIMM slots to your small CPU, you wouldn't be able to use them with the main CPU, once it was installed. It makes little sense and it's a better idea to integrate the chipset into the main CPU already, anyway.

 

[EXCellR8]

I don't know, it's one thing if there's a budget chip that actually makes sense and is plentiful and efficient. Bristol Ridge, in the shadow of Zen, doesn't really do much for anyone; even OEMs could probably sell more if they offered Ryzen 3 as a bottom end.

 

[Topweasel]

I don't know, it's one thing if there's a budget chip that actually makes sense and is plentiful and efficient. Bristol Ridge, in the shadow of Zen, doesn't really do much for anyone; even OEMs could probably sell more if they offered Ryzen 3 as a bottom end.

There is nothing preventing the Ryzen 3 and the idea is that they would offer that as well. But there is a trick in retail a $400 system sells better than a $600 system and a $600 system over a $800 system and so on. So if your an OEM and you are speccing, having produced and purchasing equipment for a line up, the more parts you can use across the lineup the better. So being able to offer a lineup where you can use the same components on the $400 system all the way to the $1200 system the better.

Using dell for example. If they are using an Intel platform its not as big an issue. You could almost do models limited to I7's, i3's, Celeron's, Pentiums, and i5's. Because you have enough models and would sell in enough volume to make each CPU's platforms unique to the CPU choice. But when you are only offering one or two models with Ryzen's, not having to choose different boards, coolers, or chassis, lowers the cost of offering Ryzen at all. So what you call unimportant and unneeded, Dell and AMD agreed was imperative for Dell to be able to offer Ryzen systems.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Let's look at it this way: At least it's not Brazos!
(R.I.P. "Cat cores")

Edit: I mean, if the lowest-end quad-core APU of this family, auto-OCs in UEFI to 3.90Ghz, that not actually THAT bad. Certainly, not quite as good in the CPU dept. as a G4560, due to Excavator's relatively poor IPC, but still fairly competitive, overall.

It never left me with Windows slow to re-draw, and the dual-core CPU pegged at 100% in Windows 10 64-bit, like my Brazos-derived rigs did.

 

[ao_ika_red]

Let's look at it this way: At least it's not Brazos!
(R.I.P. "Cat cores")

A Puma based AM1 APU should be great. It's a shame AMD abandoned it in a very short time, just like they did with Llano.

 

[kwalkingcraze]

A Puma based AM1 APU should be great. It's a shame AMD abandoned it in a very short time, just like they did with Llano.

Athlon 5350 has definitely gone up in value, and I sold 2 of them NIB for $89.99 each shipped. LOL... I can only keep Sempron 2650 :-(.

 

[amd6502]

I don't buy this "people might think it's Zen" argument. All Zen consumer parts are clearly branded as Ryzen. This is branded as a continuation of the previous A8/10 series APUs. I don't see the issue.

I agree and don't get some of these reactions.

Well, I actually find those people on my local facebook group. They usually very green about computer tech and only want a cheap gaming platform. And its release schedule to DIY market (just after Ryzen 3) only adds to the confusion.

One glimpse at the packaging and you get a sense of the "plain vanilla" theme from AMD marketing.

 

[amd6502]

A Puma based AM1 APU should be great. It's a shame AMD abandoned it in a very short time, just like they did with Llano.

Athlon 5350 has definitely gone up in value, and I sold 2 of them NIB for $89.99 each shipped. LOL... I can only keep Sempron 2650 :-(.

^^ Crazy, I'm baffled at who would spend money on these silly Athlon 5000s.


The whole title "Infecting the AM4" platform is nonsense. The whole shift in strategy was to consolidate the tiered platforms of the previous generation (AM3 performance + FM2 budget + AM1 ultra-budget/low power) into a unified platform. This is a win-win for both the consumer and AMD, as it allows the option of getting a dirt cheap system, and later upgrading it all the way to 8c/16t.

The Bristol Ridge chips fill the price and perf range below Ryzen 3 perfectly. The GPU perf of A12 is half a notch under what you get with entry level cards like 1030 or 550. But entry gaming is quite impressive even for the A10 and the cheap A8; I'd call it a notch under the entry dGPUs. Bypassing an entry card saves you almost $100 on the build bypassing the dGPU. So if you're fine with 768/720p gaming you can find value there.

However, I wonder for how long they continue to stick with the unified platform for all performance ranges. AM1 did have the nice feature that the boards were so damn cheap ~ $20, and generally just about always under $30.

We have the threadripper platform now, so there are little offshoots sprouting anyway.

They really should keep AM1 going just a little longer in my opinon. AM4 boards cost well over twice what AM1 costs. Jaguar/Puma are too slow with single thread though that the applications are really limited. They'd have to get excavator or Zen working on AM1. Thumbs crossed for an AM1+ platform! (Or maybe AM4e)

I think it wouldn't be a bad idea if such a platform had some restriction like 35W or 45W TDP tops, ITX form factor, and some upgrade path to something semi-decent (Zen 4c/8t ?). and were much cheaper than AM4. Maybe now is not the time, but sometime down the road, 2018? 2019?

 

[NTMBK]

However, I wonder for how long they continue to stick with the unified platform for all performance ranges. AM1 did have the nice feature that the boards were so damn cheap ~ $20, and generally just about always under $30.

I'm kind of surprised that we haven't seen a DDR4 replacement for AM1. It would be great for the Mini-STX platform that Intel have launched recently:

The same platform could support both Stoney Ridge (2 Excavator cores, single channel DDR4) and its Zen successor, "Banded Kestrel". They're both SoCs, so the motherboards should be super cheap.

 

[NTMBK]

Athlon 5350 has definitely gone up in value, and I sold 2 of them NIB for $89.99 each shipped. LOL... I can only keep Sempron 2650 :-(.

You're waltchan, aren't you?

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm kind of surprised that we haven't seen a DDR4 replacement for AM1. It would be great for the Mini-STX platform that Intel have launched recently:

The same platform could support both Stoney Ridge (2 Excavator cores, single channel DDR4) and its Zen successor, "Banded Kestrel". They're both SoCs, so the motherboards should be super cheap.

I agree! I have two of those DeskMini units, and I have more on the way. They are great little PCs! Even takes an NVMe SSD, on the H110 chipset, by using the CPU's PCI-E lanes (because there's no GPU slot).

I hope that somehow, once Raven Ridge comes out, that they do an AMD version, hopefully, with the Wraith Stealth cooler, it would fit into a similarly small sized chassis.

My G4600 CPUs in my DeskMini are great, and that's the highest-performing iGPU you can stick in those, pretty-much (ok, so maybe the i7 clocks its iGPU higher). Still, I'm thinking an AMD RR solution would be so much the better, you could probably also actually game on it, and it would give a real reason to get DDR4-3000 / 3200 SO-DIMMs for the thing.

 

[DrMrLordX]

You're waltchan, aren't you?

Considering the fact that he's selling AM1 Kabini on eBay for a profit and extolling the virtues of Trinity/Richland, yeah, it sure seems like him doesn't it?

 

[PingSpike]

AMD pretty much had to give up on AM1. Intel was dumping Atom product all over the market with $20 bills attached, no end in sight. Its not a good idea to get into a price war when your competitor is already selling the product below cost and has more cash than you.

 

[EXCellR8]

I wasn't even aware that Dell offered AMD-based systems... they're one of Intel's biggest partners.

 

[Topweasel]

I wasn't even aware that Dell offered AMD-based systems... they're one of Intel's biggest partners.

They have. Actually the lineup has grown really well. Infact two of the offerings are AIO Monitors with Bristol Ridge CPU's just waiting to be updated next year to RR. They have a Ryzen Inspiron Gaming desktop. A normal Inspiron system. An Alienware Area 51 Threadripper (2017 exclusive OEM offering). For home users the lineup of Ryzen offerings is quite expansive. Not much in the business end so far but that will change.

 

[kwalkingcraze]

You're waltchan, aren't you?

No... who is this guy??? I'm curious too, and I already received two PM messages about that. I told them no. Strange...

 

[NTMBK]

No... who is this guy??? I'm curious too, and I already received two PM messages about that. I told them no. Strange...

The only other guy who cares about CPU depreciation, Llano dual cores, and ripping people off on eBay... and posts in a suspiciously similar style.

 

[Rifter]

You're waltchan, aren't you?

Has to be, for sure.

 

[escrow4]

They were looking at it from a pretty much price/performance ratio gaming perspective ONLY. Which, if they were a little more fair, they might have considered the USFF PC / HTPC aspects of it a bit more. In that role, I think that it could shine, and find a niche, until true Zen-based APUs (Raven Ridge) appear. Some chassis (extremely small, think ITX or smaller, where you actually cannot even fit a video card), then these APUs are still better in the graphics dept, than Intel is. (HD630, is still somewhat pathetic.)

So yeah, they do have a (niche) point to their existence.

And they ARE cheaper, in terms of absolute price, but the Ryzen 3 1200 smokes all of them, especially overclocked. (Think, 2X performance.) But then you need to add a dGPU, an additional cost.

Edit: Oh yeah, and glad to hear from you again, @escrow4 , been wondering what you've been up to in the PC space.

I haven't built anything since May and this 7600 non K. Which is working just fine (although this Silencio case is a minor pain in the ass). I think that Ryzen still won't put up much competition until it gets a decent built iGPU with a modern decoder block. I am still using a Strix 1070 but the idea of a built in iGPU that is fully functional for everything else but gaming is most useful for such basic systems. Buying Ryzen 3 and then spending more on an additional GPU is irritating.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I haven't built anything since May and this 7600 non K. Which is working just fine (although this Silencio case is a minor pain in the ass). I think that Ryzen still won't put up much competition until it gets a decent built iGPU with a modern decoder block. I am still using a Strix 1070 but the idea of a built in iGPU that is fully functional for everything else but gaming is most useful for such basic systems. Buying Ryzen 3 and then spending more on an additional GPU is irritating.

I kind of get what you're saying. Hopefully, Raven Ridge comes out soon, and should be more popular an APU among "mainstream" customers. I generally use dGPUs anyways (except on my USFF rigs), so Ryzen's lack of iGPU doesn't bother me much, but it would be neat to use one with an iGPU.

My concern is lack of cores, Raven Ridge is going to be 4C/8T w/iGPU at best, I think. Unsure if it's going to have 4MB or 8MB of L3, seems undecided yet.

Yet, at the same time on the market, Intel will have CFL-S, which tops out at 6C/12T, but with an iGPU too!. Ryzen, you have to choose between more cores (now), or with iGPU and max 4C/8T (soon).

 

[Rifter]

I kind of get what you're saying. Hopefully, Raven Ridge comes out soon, and should be more popular an APU among "mainstream" customers. I generally use dGPUs anyways (except on my USFF rigs), so Ryzen's lack of iGPU doesn't bother me much, but it would be neat to use one with an iGPU.

My concern is lack of cores, Raven Ridge is going to be 4C/8T w/iGPU at best, I think. Unsure if it's going to have 4MB or 8MB of L3, seems undecided yet.

Yet, at the same time on the market, Intel will have CFL-S, which tops out at 6C/12T, but with an iGPU too!. Ryzen, you have to choose between more cores (now), or with iGPU and max 4C/8T (soon).

If they dont release RR as a 6-8 core as well thats a huge mistake.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I see no real need for 6c or 8c Raven Ridge. 4c/8t is already quite powerful for an APU, especially compared to "current-gen" APU products. An updated Raven Ridge on 7nm HP would be fantastic.