technically speaking, how does Intel/AMD know if you've overclocked your CPU?

[ghost recon88]

I've heard Intel has a little fuse or resistor inside the chip that pops or breaks when you overvolt it past their maximum rated voltage.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: ghost recon88
I've heard Intel has a little fuse or resistor inside the chip that pops or breaks when you overvolt it past their maximum rated voltage.

Fuses are there but usually fuse control is on the order of volts, not sub-volts.

In any event, regardless where/how the fuses are implemented it doesn't seem to hinder the guys on XS who don't mind shoveling a couple volts thru their chips.

Originally posted by: taltamir

(just the patch that came at the bottom of the cheap heatsink at the time)

That is thermal paste, its the crap thermal paste that INTEL provides you and in fact you VOID YOUR WARRANTY by replacing it with higher quality thermal paste!

That's just begging for the necessary link to back it up. Of the warranty info's I have read, none of them have gone so far as to say the thermal paste is involved in negation of the warranty. If my perception is wrong then I need to know this, but I need to see it in writing if you know what I mean.

Originally posted by: poohbear
there's no way to tell if the cpu failed due to overclocking. if u "burnt" it has nothing to do w/ anything as it can be "burnt" for a number of reasons.

This is the primary challenge. The damage from overclocking will create the same symptoms as the damage from an ESD event. A mobo that goes "pop", a PSU that goes "pop" and ram module that goes "pop". Basically anything in the electrical grid of the CPU that could cause a voltage fluctuation of the magnitude necessary to make your CPU go "pop" will be indistinguishable from the "pop" you would create by manually setting the Vcc too high on your CPU.

There is suspicion, and then there is beyond a reasonable doubt. And unless you provide Intel/AMD with additional evidence to support their suspicion beyond a reasonable doubt that you overclocked your chip and voided your warranty then they (Intel/AMD) aren't going to bother taking on the risk of refusing your warranty claim and being taken to small claims court for a couple grand. It simply isn't worth it so long as the number of burnt out CPU's getting returned for warranty does not become endemic.

Now if you file a warranty claim and state "chip doesn't work, no reason for this, please replace. System spec's: E7400 @ 4.3GHz and 1.6Vcore, teh uber pwnage in crysis, here's my myspace page where I took photos of me abusing this chip, etc etc"...well you've now furnished all the "beyond a reasonable doubt" evidence they need to refuse your warranty and be sufficiently confident you will lose in small claims court should you be dumb enough to pursue it there.

 

[Ratman6161]

The damage from overclocking will create the same symptoms as the damage from

My experience has been that the CPU has never been responsible for failures i.e. I've never seen a failed CPU that was not caused by something other than a defective CPU such as the factors you mention.

It simply isn't worth it so long as the number of burnt out CPU's getting returned for warranty does not become endemic.

The original question was "will they know" and I think we have established that they will not. But just because they won't know that doesn't give anyone the "right" to stick it to Intel or AMD just because they are big companies. The argument that its a small number that doesn't raise the price for others is irrelevant.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Ratman6161

It simply isn't worth it so long as the number of burnt out CPU's getting returned for warranty does not become endemic.

The original question was "will they know" and I think we have established that they will not. But just because they won't know that doesn't give anyone the "right" to stick it to Intel or AMD just because they are big companies. The argument that its a small number that doesn't raise the price for others is irrelevant.

I'm not making that argument in my post. Not sure if you intended to strawman me but your post reads like a strawman nonetheless.

I am making the point, was attempting to make the point, that the cost of pursuing the implementation of the necessary technology (it already exists) that would enable Intel/AMD to know an OC'ed rig from am ESD damaged rig is such that it simply won't be warranted until such time that the presumed return rate of fraudulently damaged chips reaches endemic proportions.

The same manner of business decisions that went into the creation of the first multiplier-locked CPU's to combat fraudulent sales activities. The same manner of anti-fraud business decisions that went into the creation of magnetic strips and detectors as you exit Walmart, etc. It's all a business decision based on the frequency and impact of any level of ongoing fraud activity.

Explaining the fact that such business decisions are made, and such logic trees exist, is in no way to be interpreted as me suggesting they be taken advantage of.

 

[geokilla]

Originally posted by: daw123

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: Gillbot
There is a magic sensor that tells them you OC'ed. Besides, why try to get a replacement for something YOU ruined. It only makes the cost go up for all of us.

I'm confident that the folks who OC 'til a chip blows is a very tiny %, so there is probably no cost increase associated with that.

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: Gillbot
There is a magic sensor that tells them you OC'ed. Besides, why try to get a replacement for something YOU ruined. It only makes the cost go up for all of us.

Because he has no morals?

Over the years, we've been given reason to believe that neither AMD nor Intel have much in the way of morality, either.

Of course, AMD encourages OCing with the "Black Edition" processors.

And Intel does with the Extreme Editions.

You forgot that Intel's Extreme Editions are like $1000, which is the cost of a computer that is maybe just 10% slower than one using the Extreme Editions CPU. AMD's Black Edition is actually a good bang for buck.

 

[daw123]

Originally posted by: geokilla

Originally posted by: daw123

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: Gillbot
There is a magic sensor that tells them you OC'ed. Besides, why try to get a replacement for something YOU ruined. It only makes the cost go up for all of us.

I'm confident that the folks who OC 'til a chip blows is a very tiny %, so there is probably no cost increase associated with that.

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: Gillbot
There is a magic sensor that tells them you OC'ed. Besides, why try to get a replacement for something YOU ruined. It only makes the cost go up for all of us.

Because he has no morals?

Over the years, we've been given reason to believe that neither AMD nor Intel have much in the way of morality, either.

Of course, AMD encourages OCing with the "Black Edition" processors.

And Intel does with the Extreme Editions.

You forgot that Intel's Extreme Editions are like $1000, which is the cost of a computer that is maybe just 10% slower than one using the Extreme Editions CPU. AMD's Black Edition is actually a good bang for buck.

I never said nor implied that Intel's Extreme Edition chips were good value.

It was merely a statement of fact that both Intel and AMD sell versions of their CPUs, whereby they endorse overclocking. It just that you pay one hell of a premium for the Intel EE CPUs.

 

[poohbear]

Originally posted by: taltamir

(just the patch that came at the bottom of the cheap heatsink at the time)

That is thermal paste, its the crap thermal paste that INTEL provides you and in fact you VOID YOUR WARRANTY by replacing it with higher quality thermal paste!

my example was an ancient Thermaltake heatsink, volcano 3 or some crap, back when TT first made heatsinks (yes im that old). the thermal paste failed to do its job & my cpu just died. sucked, but learned my lesson never to use that paste.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Forget you, P35 for lyfe!

My bad! I should fix that to say that LGA-775 is outdated now.

Outdated for what?


and intel finds out - technically speaking, of course - BY ASKING YOU IF YOU overclocked your CPU when you RMA it

Ihey are on the "honor" system; mostly, it appears - for RMA
-intel may not warranty Overclocking, but they sure do encourage it

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Rubycon

My bad! I should fix that to say that LGA-775 is outdated now.

Outdated for what?

Anytime something comes out anything before it is automatically outdated. Does not mean it's of no use or inferior. But you know what I mean.

 

[apoppin]

Anytime something comes out anything before it is automatically outdated.

oh, i thought there might have been a recall i didn't know about

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/outdated

outdated
One entry found.

Main Entry:
out·dat·ed Listen to the pronunciation of outdated
Pronunciation:
\?au?t-'da-t?d\
Function:
adjective
Date:
1616

: no longer current : outmoded

there is no other way to take this
:Q

Should i expect an EoL notice from Intel, anytime soon ?
:brokenheart:
All of my games are still running OK at 19x12 and CFX-3 still manages to hang on with my ancient quad-core stuck at 4 Ghz .. somehow .. with my outmoded platform
-How much time do i have left to get the latest, before my no longer current PC falls into a smoking ruin subject to derision by everyone ?
:disgust:

 

[Rubycon]

Q6600 is EOL.

Yet I have socket 478 systems - some without HT. I'd have to check but there may even be some socket 423 systems still in use and humming along!

At least they don't prohibit you from using outdated hardware. Well at least not yet! :Q

EDIT: OK perhaps I'm confusing End Of Life with End Of Production. I cannot see a Q6600 system being tagged End Of Life just yet. Makes no sense. This is why I stay away from politics.

 

[apoppin]

At least they don't prohibit you from using outdated hardware. Well at least not yet!

who is the "they" you speak of? MS and the newer OSes and aps including games, prohibit your HW from running them


my p4 2.4b is managing nicely as my back-up/office XP PC
.. despite being "outdated", it does what i require of it


i guess i can hang on with my current PC 'till Summer


maybe

EDIT: OK perhaps I'm confusing End Of Life with End Of Production. I cannot see a Q6600 system being tagged End Of Life just yet. Makes no sense. This is why I stay away from politics.

EoL would be nearer to outmoded

--the question is specific to each PC and it is: "outdated or outmoded for what?"

 

[aigomorla]

Okey so i figure we get back on track.

How does intel know you overclocked? They dont.

So how do they enforce it? Its called stock heat sink.

Changing your afteer market sink to even something better voids your warrenty.

And the problem is to truely overclock you need a better sink.

To RMA you need your stock sink. And no it cant be brand spanking new.

And i thought EOL means no more support.

 

[daw123]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
Okey so i figure we get back on track.

How does intel know you overclocked? They dont.

So how do they enforce it? Its called stock heat sink.

Changing your afteer market sink to even something better voids your warrenty.

And the problem is to truely overclock you need a better sink.

To RMA you need your stock sink. And no it cant be brand spanking new.

And i thought EOL means no more support.

It makes sense. Intel would expect you to use the stock HSF, unless you are o/cing of course, which would usually mean that you would use an aftermarket HSF instead (a bit of a give away).

So if you have to RMA your dead CPU, break out that nice shiny un-used Intel stock HSF, dunk the HSF in your vacuum cleaner bag, so its nice and dusty, and make sure you leave a bit of Intel TIM residue on the bottom and they will be none the wiser.

 

[Rubycon]

Has anyone RMA'd a lapped cpu?

That would be hilarious.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Rubycon
Has anyone RMA'd a lapped cpu?

That would be hilarious.

RMA for fun and profit!

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: poohbear

Originally posted by: taltamir

(just the patch that came at the bottom of the cheap heatsink at the time)

That is thermal paste, its the crap thermal paste that INTEL provides you and in fact you VOID YOUR WARRANTY by replacing it with higher quality thermal paste!

my example was an ancient Thermaltake heatsink, volcano 3 or some crap, back when TT first made heatsinks (yes im that old). the thermal paste failed to do its job & my cpu just died. sucked, but learned my lesson never to use that paste.

using a different heatsink also voids your warranty, and for those who asks how i know that... as far as I remember (source amnesia, sorry) my intel CPU had a little warranty booklet stating the terms of my warranty, and I was bored and decided to read it, and it said i must use the heatsink and thermal paste provided by intel with it or void my warranty...

 

[TidusZ]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Ratman6161

It simply isn't worth it so long as the number of burnt out CPU's getting returned for warranty does not become endemic.

The original question was "will they know" and I think we have established that they will not. But just because they won't know that doesn't give anyone the "right" to stick it to Intel or AMD just because they are big companies. The argument that its a small number that doesn't raise the price for others is irrelevant.

I'm not making that argument in my post. Not sure if you intended to strawman me but your post reads like a strawman nonetheless.

I am making the point, was attempting to make the point, that the cost of pursuing the implementation of the necessary technology (it already exists) that would enable Intel/AMD to know an OC'ed rig from am ESD damaged rig is such that it simply won't be warranted until such time that the presumed return rate of fraudulently damaged chips reaches endemic proportions.

The same manner of business decisions that went into the creation of the first multiplier-locked CPU's to combat fraudulent sales activities. The same manner of anti-fraud business decisions that went into the creation of magnetic strips and detectors as you exit Walmart, etc. It's all a business decision based on the frequency and impact of any level of ongoing fraud activity.

Explaining the fact that such business decisions are made, and such logic trees exist, is in no way to be interpreted as me suggesting they be taken advantage of.

I hope that strawman ain't afraid of fire too, cus he just got burned.

 

[daw123]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: poohbear

Originally posted by: taltamir

(just the patch that came at the bottom of the cheap heatsink at the time)

That is thermal paste, its the crap thermal paste that INTEL provides you and in fact you VOID YOUR WARRANTY by replacing it with higher quality thermal paste!

my example was an ancient Thermaltake heatsink, volcano 3 or some crap, back when TT first made heatsinks (yes im that old). the thermal paste failed to do its job & my cpu just died. sucked, but learned my lesson never to use that paste.

using a different heatsink also voids your warranty, and for those who asks how i know that... as far as I remember (source amnesia, sorry) my intel CPU had a little warranty booklet stating the terms of my warranty, and I was bored and decided to read it, and it said i must use the heatsink and thermal paste provided by intel with it or void my warranty...

What happens if you use up all the Intel TIM if you have to re-mount the HSF multiple times - can you buy more Intel TIM from the shops (I've never seen it for sale in the UK)?

 

[TidusZ]

Originally posted by: daw123

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: poohbear

Originally posted by: taltamir

(just the patch that came at the bottom of the cheap heatsink at the time)

That is thermal paste, its the crap thermal paste that INTEL provides you and in fact you VOID YOUR WARRANTY by replacing it with higher quality thermal paste!

my example was an ancient Thermaltake heatsink, volcano 3 or some crap, back when TT first made heatsinks (yes im that old). the thermal paste failed to do its job & my cpu just died. sucked, but learned my lesson never to use that paste.

using a different heatsink also voids your warranty, and for those who asks how i know that... as far as I remember (source amnesia, sorry) my intel CPU had a little warranty booklet stating the terms of my warranty, and I was bored and decided to read it, and it said i must use the heatsink and thermal paste provided by intel with it or void my warranty...

What happens if you use up all the Intel TIM if you have to re-mount the HSF multiple times - can you buy more Intel TIM from the shops (I've never seen it for sale in the UK)?

Never seen that for sale anywhere ever. BUT I've got two never used intel 775 hsf's for trade, you oughtta buy them or else I hear the intel employees just lick it like an oreo and they can tell what paste it is. My hsf's are new and the paste is 100% authentic intel stock. I'm also available to offer services for RMA's on processors that have been overclocked. Just send them to my post office box and I'll make absolutely certain that intel will never find out, it can be our secret. Guaranteed.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: geokilla

Originally posted by: daw123

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: Gillbot
There is a magic sensor that tells them you OC'ed. Besides, why try to get a replacement for something YOU ruined. It only makes the cost go up for all of us.

I'm confident that the folks who OC 'til a chip blows is a very tiny %, so there is probably no cost increase associated with that.

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: Gillbot
There is a magic sensor that tells them you OC'ed. Besides, why try to get a replacement for something YOU ruined. It only makes the cost go up for all of us.

Because he has no morals?

Over the years, we've been given reason to believe that neither AMD nor Intel have much in the way of morality, either.

Of course, AMD encourages OCing with the "Black Edition" processors.

And Intel does with the Extreme Editions.

You forgot that Intel's Extreme Editions are like $1000, which is the cost of a computer that is maybe just 10% slower than one using the Extreme Editions CPU. AMD's Black Edition is actually a good bang for buck.

You are forgetting that has nothing to do with what we are talking about, as upping FSB on a $140 C2D can make it match or beat a $1000 stock EE Intel, and anything AMD has to offer.

This is a morals thread, not a performance thread.

 

[taltamir]

i don't know of anyone who sells intel TIM.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
This is a morals thread, not a performance thread.

actually this is a thread about the technological methods and possibility for detecting fraud, not the moral implication of such a fraud and weather or not it might be justified in certain cases.

 

[daw123]

Originally posted by: TidusZ

Originally posted by: daw123

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: poohbear

Originally posted by: taltamir

(just the patch that came at the bottom of the cheap heatsink at the time)

That is thermal paste, its the crap thermal paste that INTEL provides you and in fact you VOID YOUR WARRANTY by replacing it with higher quality thermal paste!

my example was an ancient Thermaltake heatsink, volcano 3 or some crap, back when TT first made heatsinks (yes im that old). the thermal paste failed to do its job & my cpu just died. sucked, but learned my lesson never to use that paste.

using a different heatsink also voids your warranty, and for those who asks how i know that... as far as I remember (source amnesia, sorry) my intel CPU had a little warranty booklet stating the terms of my warranty, and I was bored and decided to read it, and it said i must use the heatsink and thermal paste provided by intel with it or void my warranty...

What happens if you use up all the Intel TIM if you have to re-mount the HSF multiple times - can you buy more Intel TIM from the shops (I've never seen it for sale in the UK)?

Never seen that for sale anywhere ever. BUT I've got two never used intel 775 hsf's for trade, you oughtta buy them or else I hear the intel employees just lick it like an oreo and they can tell what paste it is. My hsf's are new and the paste is 100% authentic intel stock. I'm also available to offer services for RMA's on processors that have been overclocked. Just send them to my post office box and I'll make absolutely certain that intel will never find out, it can be our secret. Guaranteed.

LOL.

I just had a mental image of a gang of Intel employees in a sweat shop-type factory licking the bottom of HSFs.

You're so kind - willing to fix our broken CPUs for free

 

[TidusZ]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
This is a morals thread, not a performance thread.

actually this is a thread about the technological methods and possibility for detecting fraud, not the moral implication of such a fraud and weather or not it might be justified in certain cases.

Nah I'm pretty sure its a thread about strawmen and how to defeat their lies. That's what I've gained here. As for the other stuff, intel can't tell, and if they dont know it cant hurt them, and if they cant see it it's not illegal, so if it feels good, do it, even if you shouldn't. Don't let people mess you around. Especially strawmen.

Ya, I didnt sleep last night.