Tech Report: Nvidia, Asus put the clamps on GTX 590 voltage

[Edrick]

I don't think anyone claimed the goal is to reach GXT580 SLI speed. Being able to tweak your enthusiast card without it melting down would be nice, though. The fact is the competiton's $699 card can be overclocked and overvolted. My guess would be that near 1GHz and at highish resolutions that $699 AMD card will be nipping at the heels to two GTX580's SLI'd, if not faster than that setup.

Like I said earlier, I cannot find a reason to buy a GTX590 over a 6990 (of course I don't see a reason to buy either, I would have two 6950's if I wanted a multi-GPU setup and was buying today).

The GTX590 (and 6990) are good cards when the following is true:
1. You only have 1 PCIe slot available.
2. Your power supply only have 2 PCIe connectors (or not enough wattage for 2 GTX 580's)
3. Your case can not fit 2 large GTX580's.
4. You can not afford to buy 2 GTX580's.

Other than that, going with 2 GTX580 is the better option. I do not see why anyone would purchase a GTX590 for $699 then attempt to overvolt it and possibly ruin it. That goes with anything, not just in this case.

Many people OC/OV their $100-$300 CPUs. If they fry it, they buy a new one. But how many of those people would buy a $1000 CPU and OC/OV it and run a change of destroying it? Sure some, but many would be scared to. Just saying.

 

[SirPauly]

Imho,

Considering how important over-clocking has been; to allow users more flexibility to over-clock and over-volt has been a selling point to not only IHV's but AIB's.

Does it hurt the GTX 590? To some degree and would be nice to see some modest over-volting abilities and allow the safety protocols to protect. This area, for me, AMD has a strength and why they're trying to drive a point here by offering videos like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usGkq7tAhfc&feature=player_embedded

 

[Keysplayr]

Imho,

Considering how important over-clocking has been; to allow users more flexibility to over-clock and over-volt has been a selling point to not only IHV's but AIB's.

Does it hurt the GTX 590? To some degree and would be nice to see some modest over-volting abilities and allow the safety protocols to protect. This area, for me, AMD has a strength and why they're trying to drive a point here by offering videos like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usGkq7tAhfc&feature=player_embedded

LOL that video is hilarious.!! :thumbsup:

 

[pcm81]

The GTX590 (and 6990) are good cards when the following is true:
1. You only have 1 PCIe slot available.
2. Your power supply only have 2 PCIe connectors (or not enough wattage for 2 GTX 580's)
3. Your case can not fit 2 large GTX580's.
4. You can not afford to buy 2 GTX580's.

Other than that, going with 2 GTX580 is the better option. I do not see why anyone would purchase a GTX590 for $699 then attempt to overvolt it and possibly ruin it. That goes with anything, not just in this case.

Many people OC/OV their $100-$300 CPUs. If they fry it, they buy a new one. But how many of those people would buy a $1000 CPU and OC/OV it and run a change of destroying it? Sure some, but many would be scared to. Just saying.

What about going with Quad-fire /Quad SLI?

 

[SickBeast]

I think it only makes sense that NV is locking down the voltage on these cards. It makes no sense to me to overvolt a $700 card with a pair of power hungry GPUs.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Yes, you missed it all. IMHO your entire list here is one big reach. And that is ok, just don't expect not to be challenged on anything you put out there.

Most everything Silverforce is bang on if you ask me. Speaking of reaching, the amount "reaching" going on to justify the 590's obvious shortcomings is getting beyond silly. A high end enthusiasts card that has drivers that are putting the brakes on overclocking is a joke, no way to spin that in a positive light. The card just sucks, it's too hot, too slow (performance/watt), too buggy, too fragile. What's funny is driver revisions are supposed to give more performance, not less. So you buy the card, overclock it, update your drivers, and you could very likely end up with a slower card because you simply can't overclock it to where you had it before. Unprecedented.

The 590 is a failed product as it stands today. A future revision might help, but I doubt it. The power envelop is already past anything reasonable (same goes for the 6990, but it at least has a robust power section).

 

[AnandThenMan]

I think it only makes sense that NV is locking down the voltage on these cards. It makes no sense to me to overvolt a $700 card with a pair of power hungry GPUs.

Or you could just get a 6990, over volt it, and get more performance for the same power envelop as the 590. :thumbsup: Makes sense to me.

 

[SlowSpyder]

The GTX590 (and 6990) are good cards when the following is true:
1. You only have 1 PCIe slot available.
2. Your power supply only have 2 PCIe connectors (or not enough wattage for 2 GTX 580's)
3. Your case can not fit 2 large GTX580's.
4. You can not afford to buy 2 GTX580's.

Other than that, going with 2 GTX580 is the better option. I do not see why anyone would purchase a GTX590 for $699 then attempt to overvolt it and possibly ruin it. That goes with anything, not just in this case.

Many people OC/OV their $100-$300 CPUs. If they fry it, they buy a new one. But how many of those people would buy a $1000 CPU and OC/OV it and run a change of destroying it? Sure some, but many would be scared to. Just saying.

That's not really addressing what I replied to. You made a comment that suggested that a $699 card won't reach the level of a $1000 pair of cards... but that was never something that anyone was disappointed about. The problem with the GTX590 is that it is generally slower than the 6990 at higher resolutions and have very limited overclocking potential whereas the 6990 is much more flexible... yet both cost the same.

Plainly put, the GTX590 is not as good of a card as the 6990, yet it costs the same. That's where the fail comments are coming from. Again, I cannot see any reason to buy a GTX590 over a 6990.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Why? because then he won't be able to overvolt? For some reason, do you think the 590 isn't powerful enough at stock? It goes back and forth against 6990.
And besides, updated drivers usually offer gradual but wide range of performance improvements over time anyway.

Your comment was about it being the fastest air cooled card in the world. I doubt it is, but for arguements sake we'll say it is. Now what happens if that user has to update his drivers? See where I'm going here?

Both cards might be plenty fast for you at their stock out of the box speed. Obviously that person wants more out of the card, hence the overvolt and overclock. But it appears Nvidia used cheap components or cut corners on their flagship top priced enthusiast card. So like I said earlier, I hope he doesn't have to update drivers for any reason.

 

[formulav8]

So overclocking is no longer important and no longer a selling point if nvidia can't benefit from it (or nvidia becomes the loser)? :whiste:

 

[Keysplayr]

So overclocking is no longer important and no longer a selling point if nvidia can't benefit from it (or nvidia becomes the loser)? :whiste:

If you say so. In your honest opinion, who do you think is more likely to overclock? The person who can afford only a mid range card and want's to get as much as they can out of it for the money? Or the person who can afford to buy the highest end so they don't have to?

Now, you don't have to answer this question in it's exact form of course. Feel free to reform it to suit your answer as you see fit.

 

[Keysplayr]

Your comment was about it being the fastest air cooled card in the world. I doubt it is, but for arguements sake we'll say it is. Now what happens if that user has to update his drivers? See where I'm going here?

Both cards might be plenty fast for you at their stock out of the box speed. Obviously that person wants more out of the card, hence the overvolt and overclock. But it appears Nvidia used cheap components or cut corners on their flagship top priced enthusiast card. So like I said earlier, I hope he doesn't have to update drivers for any reason.

I don't see how you can doubt it at all. But I see your point or should I say the only point you sort of have. This member already installed the newer drivers already and can't overvolt. Still a beast of a card no matter how you slice it Spyder. I'm sorry. Yes, even at stock.

 

[AnandThenMan]

If you say so. In your honest opinion, who do you think is more likely to overclock? The person who can afford only a mid range card and want's to get as much as they can out of it for the money? Or the person who can afford to buy the highest end so they don't have to?

So let me get this straight. The price point of a card determines who is "more likely" to overclock?

Let me clear it up for you. A 6990 CAN overclock and over volt, and does not have any driver revisions that put clamp down on overclocking. The GTX590 has become a much less overclockable card with driver revisions. So you tell me objectively, which card offers better value? Are you telling me that after a certain price point, value is not important?

But by all means, continue to try and dictate who should be free to overclock and who should not.

 

[nanaki333]

If you say so. In your honest opinion, who do you think is more likely to overclock? The person who can afford only a mid range card and want's to get as much as they can out of it for the money? Or the person who can afford to buy the highest end so they don't have to?

Now, you don't have to answer this question in it's exact form of course. Feel free to reform it to suit your answer as you see fit.

heh.. i actually agree with you. i have a gtx 590 that i didn't bother OC'ing. i actually only used it for an hour before deciding to go back to my 6970 CF. i generally buy the highest end card and just leave it at stock. i don't care about FPS as long as the minimum stays above 30 or 60, or whatever the game i'm playing is rated at.

 

[MoMeanMugs]

If you say so. In your honest opinion, who do you think is more likely to overclock? The person who can afford only a mid range card and want's to get as much as they can out of it for the money? Or the person who can afford to buy the highest end so they don't have to?

I don't really see the difference. If you buy a new toy, you're going to play with it. If you know how to overclock, I see it as a temptation. It's like telling a little kid not to do something. I overclock my CPU, even though I don't see a performance difference. Why do I do it? because 3.2 GHz sounds better than 2.5 GHz. I don't overclock my 5870's or 9600m GT because of heat, so on the other hand, I can see how overclocking a GPU might be different.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Still a beast of a card no matter how you slice it Spyder. I'm sorry. Yes, even at stock.

At stock, calling it a "beast" is a relative thing. I think [H] said it best.

Overall, when we overclocked the ASUS GeForce GTX 590 to its highest potential, we received around a 12% performance increase over the stock frequencies. Unfortunately, we were not able to get the clock speeds anywhere near GeForce GTX 580 SLI levels, even with increasing the voltage. The GeForce GTX 590 is a power hungry video card that gets twitchy at higher voltages due to its sophisticated power management features. So twitchy that if the power management software isn't working correctly it can destroy your video card if you over-volt it too high. At the levels that are stable, and that keep the video card happy however, you will never reach anywhere near GeForce GTX 580 GTX GPU clock speeds.

This is a stark contrast to the AMD Radeon HD 6990 which has no problem matching the clock speed of the AMD Radeon HD 6970 GPU with which it is based on. In fact, AMD gives you a BIOS switch to operate the video card in Radeon HD 6970 GPU performance mode. This is something quite lacking in the GeForce GTX 590. It may have GTX 580 GPUs under its hood, but these are being severely held back due to power and clock speeds. The video card as a whole just can't take the power demands required to run two true GTX 580 level GPUs.

Another fact to consider is that at stock clock frequencies the GeForce GTX 590 struggles to keep up with the AMD Radeon HD 6990. It takes overclocking the video card to its maximum potential and voltages in order to match or best the HD 6990 in a few games. The problem for it is that the Radeon HD 6990 is running at stock frequencies, and it itself can be over-volted and overclocked to improve performance. Therefore, while the GTX 590 is tapped out, the AMD Radeon HD 6990 has room to grow performance-wise beyond what is shown here.

 

[AtenRa]

The 270.51 driver that limits O/V is BETA, if you guys have a GTX590 and you want to OC/OV it just use the 267,91 Certified.

If someone wants to buy a $699 card and OC/OV then get the 6990, if you don't want to OC then both cards are great.....simple as that.

 

[OCGuy]

The 270.51 driver that limits O/V is BETA, if you guys have a GTX590 and you want to OC/OV it just use the 267,91 Certified.

If someone wants to buy a $699 card and OC/OV then get the 6990, if you don't want to OC then both cards are great.....simple as that.

Exactly.

Not everyone plans on running their new $700 toy outside of warranty by adding voltage. And the people that actually do would be smart to spend the extra money on a water block anyway.

But I've seen it time and time again. When AMD had DX10.1 and nV didnt bother, you could swear that 10.1 was the most amazing thing ever, even though it did absolutely nothing.

When AMD was out first with DX11 and tesselation (even though it was one crappy game, Dirt2), they acted like DX11 was the end-all-be-all. Then once nV had much better tesselation, it wasn't important any more.

Now we are pretending that over-volting cards is standard practice. In fact, I was told that if you dont OV, you aren't an enthusiast, and it's the same as owning a Mac.

Most of the people in these 590 threads will probably never own, let alone over-volt a $700 GPU in their entire life.

For only $199 more than a 580, it is a great performance jump, period.

nV has benefited from cards that can be over-volted...(GTX460), that obviously is not the case with 590 though.

Show me where over-volting either new card makes a difference in a game. 100FPS --> 115 FPS is a joke.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I don't see how you can doubt it at all. But I see your point or should I say the only point you sort of have. This member already installed the newer drivers already and can't overvolt. Still a beast of a card no matter how you slice it Spyder. I'm sorry. Yes, even at stock.

What point do I sort of have? One point I made is that, if he updates his drivers, even if that card is the fastest in the world at 1.0v and a bit over 800MHz, it will no longer be. It will not reach that lofty overclock any longer. Do you agree or disagree?

The other point I made is that Nvidia cut corners or used cheap components. Seeing multiple cards fail in reviews and posts on forums complaining of card frying, and considering this is only a week or so since launch, I would think this is the case. Not to mention the fact that since it launched Nvidia has released four (or is it five now?) different drivers to get power use under control. The latest driver stops any overvolting because the cards are prone to failure when they are overvolted. AMD's competing card has no problem with reliability when overvolted and costs the same. It would seem some sort of cost saving decisions were made... possibly in the choice of components? Maybe it was engineered without much saftey margin - hence my cutting corners comment. Again, AMD's card can be overvolted and costs the same... so do you agree with my point that some corners were cut or cheap coponents were used, or disagree?

I have no idea why you are saying sorry. And I agree, both cards are quite stout. But one is clearly better than the other in my opinion...

 

[SirPauly]

At stock, calling it a "beast" is a relative thing. I think [H] said it best.

Using a site you like:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/03/21/amd_radeon_hd_6990_video_card_followup_review/5

13 percent over stock using the second bios.

Wouldn't consider this some amazing advantage either.

 

[AtenRa]

Is this how O/C'ing is supposed to work?

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/04/03/asus_geforce_gtx_590_overclocking_followup/1

Yes when you overcome the thermal operating limit of the electronic device like CPUs, Graphics Cards, VRMs etc (Overheating protection) and there is also the OCP (OverCurrent Protection).

HD5970 did the same thing and i believe most of the graphics cards do that, nothing new

 

[Keysplayr]

Most everything Silverforce is bang on if you ask me. Speaking of reaching, the amount "reaching" going on to justify the 590's obvious shortcomings is getting beyond silly. A high end enthusiasts card that has drivers that are putting the brakes on overclocking is a joke, no way to spin that in a positive light. The card just sucks, it's too hot, too slow (performance/watt), too buggy, too fragile. What's funny is driver revisions are supposed to give more performance, not less. So you buy the card, overclock it, update your drivers, and you could very likely end up with a slower card because you simply can't overclock it to where you had it before. Unprecedented.

The 590 is a failed product as it stands today. A future revision might help, but I doubt it. The power envelop is already past anything reasonable (same goes for the 6990, but it at least has a robust power section).

So it's only a matter of a difference in our opinions then? I'm ok with that.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Wouldn't consider this some amazing advantage either.

6990 is already faster at stock vs. a stock 590. But people don't overclock high end cards, remember? ^_^

 

[Keysplayr]

So let me get this straight. The price point of a card determines who is "more likely" to overclock?

Let me clear it up for you. A 6990 CAN overclock and over volt, and does not have any driver revisions that put clamp down on overclocking. The GTX590 has become a much less overclockable card with driver revisions. So you tell me objectively, which card offers better value? Are you telling me that after a certain price point, value is not important?

But by all means, continue to try and dictate who should be free to overclock and who should not.

Refer to almighty peanut for some backing to my position on this. Of course I don't mean to say that one point of view fits all. Of course not.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Refer to almighty peanut

That's what I always do when I have doubts.