Teacher pulls chair out from under student?

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Tom
kid has to stand up, not out of respect for anthem, but because the teacher told him to stand up. it's part of the teacher's role to maintain order, so teacher's have authority to tell kids what to do, within reason. I think this is well within reason and has nothing to do with politics or freedom of expression, which isn't absolute for anyone, and is even more restricted in a school or if a person isn't an adult.

example- Supreme court says dress codes, or even uniforms, don't violate the Constitution, even in publicly funded schools.

The teacher told the student to stand up for the sole reason of respecting the flag. It's been upheld in the SC court a student does not have to show any form of respect, let alone being forced to show respect, for the flag, Anthem, or Pledge in school.

 

[Neurorelay]

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

Originally posted by: Neurorelay
You're joking right? Just like speeding, it is not a right and once you crash or injure another person you have thus violated there right to a safe environment of driving. Seriously, study a little law please......rights are given, they do not exist as a state of nature. YOu agree to come to school...it is a free public education, therefore you must adhere to certain rules. The teacher was extreme yes...his goal was admirable, but not well executed. LIke I said, this student's behavior should be documented, counseled, and if no change, correction needed. The teacher should have brought the principal in to observe also.

In addition, the teacher needs counseling, anger management and yes, suspension.

Ideally, the teacher would have taken the student aside later in the day, discussed the students feeling and then discussed in a conference with a parent and administrator.

I should study law? You should study your response seeing as how you have not even addressed how the teacher's rights were being violated.

Violation of rights

Teacher has a right to instruct students in the days prepared materials.

The teacher has a right to expect all students will come prepared and willing to work.

The teacher has a right to correct behavior that deviates from school and democratically created classroom "norms."

Student has a right to feel safe.

Student has a right to all and any help available in completing both distirict and state mandated content.

THe student has a right to "sit-out" of events.



Teachers rights were violated when the student caused disruption to the learning day, videotaped without knowledge and made a laughin stock when trying to do his job. (poorly yes, but still tried)

Students rights were violated when physical harm was manifested along with verbal rage.

However, at no time during the altercation was the student in any real danger. He easily goes to the administrator and complains. He upheld his rights. While the district was not helpful to his side, they did document the proceedings.

In the end, the whole situation is poorly handled by both parties.

In the future, in any class as parents and teachers, a set of guidleines for behaviors must be sent home and signed by both parent and student and a copy kept on file at the school. Then in the future, there is a clear deliniation of rights violation both personal and public.

 

[Lorn]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Tom
kid has to stand up, not out of respect for anthem, but because the teacher told him to stand up. it's part of the teacher's role to maintain order, so teacher's have authority to tell kids what to do, within reason. I think this is well within reason and has nothing to do with politics or freedom of expression, which isn't absolute for anyone, and is even more restricted in a school or if a person isn't an adult.

example- Supreme court says dress codes, or even uniforms, don't violate the Constitution, even in publicly funded schools.

The teacher told the student to stand up for the sole reason of respecting the flag. It's been upheld in the SC court a student does not have to show any form of respect, let alone being forced to show respect, for the flag, Anthem, or Pledge in school.

/End of legal discussion.

Now, about that psycho that's infecting the minds of teenagers...

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Neurorelay

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

Originally posted by: Neurorelay
You're joking right? Just like speeding, it is not a right and once you crash or injure another person you have thus violated there right to a safe environment of driving. Seriously, study a little law please......rights are given, they do not exist as a state of nature. YOu agree to come to school...it is a free public education, therefore you must adhere to certain rules. The teacher was extreme yes...his goal was admirable, but not well executed. LIke I said, this student's behavior should be documented, counseled, and if no change, correction needed. The teacher should have brought the principal in to observe also.

In addition, the teacher needs counseling, anger management and yes, suspension.

Ideally, the teacher would have taken the student aside later in the day, discussed the students feeling and then discussed in a conference with a parent and administrator.

I should study law? You should study your response seeing as how you have not even addressed how the teacher's rights were being violated.

Violation of rights

Teacher has a right to instruct students in the days prepared materials.

The teacher has a right to expect all students will come prepared and willing to work.

The teacher has a right to correct behavior that deviates from school and democratically created classroom "norms."

Student has a right to feel safe.

Student has a right to all and any help available in completing both distirict and state mandated content.

THe student has a right to "sit-out" of events.



Teachers rights were violated when the student caused disruption to the learning day, videotaped without knowledge and made a laughin stock when trying to do his job. (poorly yes, but still tried)

Students rights were violated when physical harm was manifested along with verbal rage.

However, at no time during the altercation was the student in any real danger. He easily goes to the administrator and complains. He upheld his rights. While the district was not helpful to his side, they did document the proceedings.

In the end, the whole situation is poorly handled by both parties.

In the future, in any class as parents and teachers, a set of guidleines for behaviors must be sent home and signed by both parent and student and a copy kept on file at the school. Then in the future, there is a clear deliniation of rights violation both personal and public.

I dont think you saw the video correctly. The kid sitting did not curse, make any gestures, or do anything else that would be disruptive to the class. He simply did not stand when told to do so to respect the flag. The teacher should've confronted the kids that were cursing, making gestures, etc, but instead picked on the kid sitting down.

 

[Neurorelay]

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

Originally posted by: Neurorelay

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Neurorelay
In addition, rights only go so far if they don't interfere with other's rights. This student's behavior was infringing on the teachers right to maintain a well behaved and safe learning environment for students and educators.

How so?

Seriously.

Sitting down, remaining quiet sure is just crossing the line. The teacher's rights were COMPLETELY violated.

:roll:

The fact of the matter is thoguh, they weren't sitting down quietly. They were making their position very clear with gestures, obscenities and rude behavior.

I didn't say the teacher was executing his right to a safe learning environment, I just said he/she does have that right.

The students making 'obscenities' and 'rude behaviors' weren't even sitting. They weren't even the ones being yelled at. Notice the student IN QUESTION was just sitting there, arms folded in front of him, silent.

The student in question caused the reaction he wanted and then sat quiet and smugly. You can see this kind of behavior prevelant even in early elementary now. It is a lack of respect for all things adult and authority.

I think what we will see here in this debate, is a group of those who have no respect for the public education system and those who do. I would even go so far as to say, there will be some....who think their "rights" are unlimited but forget, while a democracy, the system is only maintained by adherence to rules and regulations.

My final comment, there are alot worse rights violations then being forced to stand up. And frankly, I feel I am getting to preachy and this really is out of my league, my 2 cents, take it or leave it. Going to go play some movies and enjoy my rights to a safe home, protected by the police who while serving me, serve you too and won't hesitate to shoot me if I tried to kill anyone of our millions of lovely cohorts in America. Peace, and let's hope it stays that way, peaceful.

 

[Neurorelay]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Neurorelay

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

Originally posted by: Neurorelay
You're joking right? Just like speeding, it is not a right and once you crash or injure another person you have thus violated there right to a safe environment of driving. Seriously, study a little law please......rights are given, they do not exist as a state of nature. YOu agree to come to school...it is a free public education, therefore you must adhere to certain rules. The teacher was extreme yes...his goal was admirable, but not well executed. LIke I said, this student's behavior should be documented, counseled, and if no change, correction needed. The teacher should have brought the principal in to observe also.

In addition, the teacher needs counseling, anger management and yes, suspension.

Ideally, the teacher would have taken the student aside later in the day, discussed the students feeling and then discussed in a conference with a parent and administrator.

I should study law? You should study your response seeing as how you have not even addressed how the teacher's rights were being violated.

Violation of rights

Teacher has a right to instruct students in the days prepared materials.

The teacher has a right to expect all students will come prepared and willing to work.

The teacher has a right to correct behavior that deviates from school and democratically created classroom "norms."

Student has a right to feel safe.

Student has a right to all and any help available in completing both distirict and state mandated content.

THe student has a right to "sit-out" of events.



Teachers rights were violated when the student caused disruption to the learning day, videotaped without knowledge and made a laughin stock when trying to do his job. (poorly yes, but still tried)

Students rights were violated when physical harm was manifested along with verbal rage.

However, at no time during the altercation was the student in any real danger. He easily goes to the administrator and complains. He upheld his rights. While the district was not helpful to his side, they did document the proceedings.

In the end, the whole situation is poorly handled by both parties.

In the future, in any class as parents and teachers, a set of guidleines for behaviors must be sent home and signed by both parent and student and a copy kept on file at the school. Then in the future, there is a clear deliniation of rights violation both personal and public.

I dont think you saw the video correctly. The kid sitting did not curse, make any gestures, or do anything else that would be disruptive to the class. He simply did not stand when told to do so to respect the flag. The teacher should've confronted the kids that were cursing, making gestures, etc, but instead picked on the kid sitting down.

True enough. THe teacher should have asked for assistance from other teachers. That I concede, his classroom management is in doubt.

 

[Neurorelay]

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Tom
kid has to stand up, not out of respect for anthem, but because the teacher told him to stand up. it's part of the teacher's role to maintain order, so teacher's have authority to tell kids what to do, within reason. I think this is well within reason and has nothing to do with politics or freedom of expression, which isn't absolute for anyone, and is even more restricted in a school or if a person isn't an adult.

example- Supreme court says dress codes, or even uniforms, don't violate the Constitution, even in publicly funded schools.

The teacher told the student to stand up for the sole reason of respecting the flag. It's been upheld in the SC court a student does not have to show any form of respect, let alone being forced to show respect, for the flag, Anthem, or Pledge in school.

/End of legal discussion.

Now, about that psycho that's infecting the minds of teenagers...

Honestly though, theres alot more then just a teacher "infecting" the minds of our youth. Education is at the front of the field for visiblity.....but not the sole cause or concern.

 

[Lorn]

Originally posted by: Neurorelay

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

Originally posted by: Neurorelay
You're joking right? Just like speeding, it is not a right and once you crash or injure another person you have thus violated there right to a safe environment of driving. Seriously, study a little law please......rights are given, they do not exist as a state of nature. YOu agree to come to school...it is a free public education, therefore you must adhere to certain rules. The teacher was extreme yes...his goal was admirable, but not well executed. LIke I said, this student's behavior should be documented, counseled, and if no change, correction needed. The teacher should have brought the principal in to observe also.

In addition, the teacher needs counseling, anger management and yes, suspension.

Ideally, the teacher would have taken the student aside later in the day, discussed the students feeling and then discussed in a conference with a parent and administrator.

I should study law? You should study your response seeing as how you have not even addressed how the teacher's rights were being violated.

Violation of rights

Teacher has a right to instruct students in the days prepared materials.

The teacher has a right to expect all students will come prepared and willing to work.

The teacher has a right to correct behavior that deviates from school and democratically created classroom "norms."

Student has a right to feel safe.

Student has a right to all and any help available in completing both distirict and state mandated content.

THe student has a right to "sit-out" of events.

Thank you for addressing them, but let me break it down AS PROVIDED BY THE VIDEO.

Teacher has a right to instruct students in the days prepared materials.

Instruct? Demand, maybe. Verbally abuse, yes. What are the day's prepared materials evident in the video clip? Well so far, only a daily announcement containing the national anthem which, as decided by the SC, is perfectly legal to 'sit-out' of.

The teacher has a right to expect all students will come prepared and willing to work.

There is no work evident yet. As mentioned above, the only 'materials' so far are some daily announcements. It seems the only thing this 'teacher' is expecting the students to work on is their Seig Heil posture. I'd completely agree if he was going through an assignment...

The teacher has a right to correct behavior that deviates from school and democratically created classroom "norms."

Hmm. Verbal abuse, possible physical abuse *normally* isn't the way to correct behavior here in the public school system. Maybe in boot camp? By the students' almost provocation to videotape it, it's clear that the classroom "norm" isn't all that "democratic".

 

[Neurorelay]

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

Originally posted by: Neurorelay

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

Originally posted by: Neurorelay

Hmm. Verbal abuse, possible physical abuse *normally* isn't the way to correct behavior here in the public school system. Maybe in boot camp? By the students' almost provocation to videotape it, it's clear that the classroom "norm" isn't all that "democratic".

I never said it was, it is his right, which he poorly executed....that is evident. This is a good tape to show to new teachers on how not to maintain order. A general rule I hear is at most a teacher can raise their voice, but once you scream, students lose all respect for you as you are showing them none.

I agree with your points NOlove...I just don't agree this student is an "Angel", I believe this incident was premeditated and staged...making it doubtful of its true validity. As a parent, I would just request my student be transferred to another school, if not another class.

 

[Lorn]

Students aren't imps. They will respect when shown respect, and the majority will give it first JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE THE TEACHER. Just because you never caught a job in the profession you wanted, and were forced to 'teach' it doesn't give you this supreme authority. I say this because it is CLEAR that he isn't doing it because he 'loves kids' or 'wants to reach out to the community'. I find it to be no suprise that these kids are acting in retaliation...

Edit: Saw your above post - I agree. He's no angel, but his intentions were only provoked by probably weeks if not months of this type of abuse. Kids just don't naturally do this type of thing... they get humiliated/hurt and will then do what they can as a lowly student to get back.

 

[Neurorelay]

Originally posted by: NOLOVE
Students aren't imps. They will respect when shown respect, and the majority will give it first JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE THE TEACHER. Just because you never caught a job in the profession you wanted, and were forced to 'teach' it doesn't give you this supreme authority. I say this because it is CLEAR that he isn't doing it because he 'loves kids' or 'wants to reach out to the community'. I find it to be no suprise that these kids are acting in retaliation...

NOLOVE...I like your ideas.....thank you for sparking some interest in me. I am finishing student teaching in a month and am becoming a teacher because that is what I trained to do my whole life. I like the classroom and especially the meaningful attachments that can form when a teacher does their job well with love and the student knows, respects and want to do the same.

I just finished my first placement and one student everyday would just totally ignore me when I said hello...after a couple of weeks with one on one attention he started to say hello first and today his mother even said how much fun and a great learning experience he had with me, she even thanked me. This was a student that was constantly in trouble with aides and other teachers. And he would defy me too, but he at least, along with me, kept the process respectful and safe. This was second grade though, and most likely, not applicable to a HS setting.

 

[Neurorelay]

Originally posted by: NOLOVE
Students aren't imps. They will respect when shown respect, and the majority will give it first JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE THE TEACHER. Just because you never caught a job in the profession you wanted, and were forced to 'teach' it doesn't give you this supreme authority. I say this because it is CLEAR that he isn't doing it because he 'loves kids' or 'wants to reach out to the community'. I find it to be no suprise that these kids are acting in retaliation...

Edit: Saw your above post - I agree. He's no angel, but his intentions were only provoked by probably weeks if not months of this type of abuse. Kids just don't naturally do this type of thing... they get humiliated/hurt and will then do what they can as a lowly student to get back.

I agree, and it is sad the district is not showing more support of his case. But heck, sometimes they don't even support their own teachers. THeir is a great divide in education, between the money makers and the true educators.

 

[JoeKing]

Originally posted by: NOLOVE
Students aren't imps. They will respect when shown respect, and the majority will give it first JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE THE TEACHER. Just because you never caught a job in the profession you wanted, and were forced to 'teach' it doesn't give you this supreme authority. I say this because it is CLEAR that he isn't doing it because he 'loves kids' or 'wants to reach out to the community'. I find it to be no suprise that these kids are acting in retaliation...

Edit: Saw your above post - I agree. He's no angel, but his intentions were only provoked by probably weeks if not months of this type of abuse. Kids just don't naturally do this type of thing... they get humiliated/hurt and will then do what they can as a lowly student to get back.

Sounds like another high school student that's up too late during a school night. :roll:

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Neurorelay

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

Originally posted by: Neurorelay

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

Originally posted by: Neurorelay

Hmm. Verbal abuse, possible physical abuse *normally* isn't the way to correct behavior here in the public school system. Maybe in boot camp? By the students' almost provocation to videotape it, it's clear that the classroom "norm" isn't all that "democratic".

I never said it was, it is his right, which he poorly executed....that is evident. This is a good tape to show to new teachers on how not to maintain order. A general rule I hear is at most a teacher can raise their voice, but once you scream, students lose all respect for you as you are showing them none.

I agree with your points NOlove...I just don't agree this student is an "Angel", I believe this incident was premeditated and staged...making it doubtful of its true validity. As a parent, I would just request my student be transferred to another school, if not another class.

As far as I can tell from the video, the student whose chair was pulled out by the teacher was sitting quietly. His problem was he did not jump when ordered to do so by the teacher. The student was within his constitutional rights.

I seriously doubt that this teacher was set up or that this was staged. I think this video is representative of his normal class room behavior.

Parents, do you really want your kids taught by people like this teacher?

 

[Lorn]

Originally posted by: JoeKing

Originally posted by: NOLOVE
Students aren't imps. They will respect when shown respect, and the majority will give it first JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE THE TEACHER. Just because you never caught a job in the profession you wanted, and were forced to 'teach' it doesn't give you this supreme authority. I say this because it is CLEAR that he isn't doing it because he 'loves kids' or 'wants to reach out to the community'. I find it to be no suprise that these kids are acting in retaliation...

Edit: Saw your above post - I agree. He's no angel, but his intentions were only provoked by probably weeks if not months of this type of abuse. Kids just don't naturally do this type of thing... they get humiliated/hurt and will then do what they can as a lowly student to get back.

Sounds like another high school student that's up too late during a school night. :roll:

Thanks for lookin' out for me, dad! But seriously... don't you have anything better to offer than some condescending remark about how I'm a highschool student? Not everyone puts on a puppydog face when humiliated by 'educators'. I'm a senior now, and I just know that soon these students will get so fed up with their 'educations' that they will split their schools in half. This education system is as old as dirt, so that makes you...?

 

[JoeKing]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: Neurorelay

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

Originally posted by: Neurorelay

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

Originally posted by: Neurorelay

Hmm. Verbal abuse, possible physical abuse *normally* isn't the way to correct behavior here in the public school system. Maybe in boot camp? By the students' almost provocation to videotape it, it's clear that the classroom "norm" isn't all that "democratic".

I never said it was, it is his right, which he poorly executed....that is evident. This is a good tape to show to new teachers on how not to maintain order. A general rule I hear is at most a teacher can raise their voice, but once you scream, students lose all respect for you as you are showing them none.

I agree with your points NOlove...I just don't agree this student is an "Angel", I believe this incident was premeditated and staged...making it doubtful of its true validity. As a parent, I would just request my student be transferred to another school, if not another class.

As far as I can tell from the video, the student whose chair was pulled out by the teacher was sitting quietly. His problem was he did not jump when ordered to do so by the teacher. The student was within his constitutional rights.

I seriously doubt that this teacher was set up or that this was staged. I think this video is representative of his normal class room behavior.

Parents, do you really want your kids taught by people like this teacher?

And you don't think it odd the one of the guys happened to have said (twice if I heard right) "this is great footage" Then in the video after I hear the teacher tells the boy to stand up the first time I hear someone yell "Get off" possibly the student in question.

I wish we could see even 30 seconds early than when this clip started. It looks as though in the very beginning the boy is having a fine little conversation with his friends in that table. I wonder about what....

 

[JoeKing]

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

Originally posted by: JoeKing

Originally posted by: NOLOVE
Students aren't imps. They will respect when shown respect, and the majority will give it first JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE THE TEACHER. Just because you never caught a job in the profession you wanted, and were forced to 'teach' it doesn't give you this supreme authority. I say this because it is CLEAR that he isn't doing it because he 'loves kids' or 'wants to reach out to the community'. I find it to be no suprise that these kids are acting in retaliation...

Edit: Saw your above post - I agree. He's no angel, but his intentions were only provoked by probably weeks if not months of this type of abuse. Kids just don't naturally do this type of thing... they get humiliated/hurt and will then do what they can as a lowly student to get back.

Sounds like another high school student that's up too late during a school night. :roll:

Thanks for lookin' out for me, dad! But seriously... don't you have anything better to offer than some condescending remark about how I'm a highschool student? Not everyone puts on a puppydog face when humiliated by 'educators'. I'm a senior now, and I just know that soon these students will get so fed up with their 'educations' that they will split their schools in half. This education system is as old as dirt, so that makes you...?

Hmm don't you think it odd that just from reading your posts I was able to deduce you are another high school boy?

 

[Neurorelay]

Originally posted by: JoeKing

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: Neurorelay

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

Originally posted by: Neurorelay

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

Originally posted by: Neurorelay

Hmm. Verbal abuse, possible physical abuse *normally* isn't the way to correct behavior here in the public school system. Maybe in boot camp? By the students' almost provocation to videotape it, it's clear that the classroom "norm" isn't all that "democratic".

I never said it was, it is his right, which he poorly executed....that is evident. This is a good tape to show to new teachers on how not to maintain order. A general rule I hear is at most a teacher can raise their voice, but once you scream, students lose all respect for you as you are showing them none.

I agree with your points NOlove...I just don't agree this student is an "Angel", I believe this incident was premeditated and staged...making it doubtful of its true validity. As a parent, I would just request my student be transferred to another school, if not another class.

As far as I can tell from the video, the student whose chair was pulled out by the teacher was sitting quietly. His problem was he did not jump when ordered to do so by the teacher. The student was within his constitutional rights.

I seriously doubt that this teacher was set up or that this was staged. I think this video is representative of his normal class room behavior.

Parents, do you really want your kids taught by people like this teacher?

And you don't think it odd the one of the guys happened to have said (twice if I heard right) "this is great footage" Then in the video after I hear the teacher tell the boy to stand up the first time I hear someone yell "Get off" possibly the student.

I wish we could see even 30 seconds early than when this clip started. It looks as though in the very beginning the boy is having a fine little conversation with his friends in that table. I wonder about what....

I agree, the incident "this time" was provoked for the purpose of the camera present. Sure, it has probably happened before, but these students want this teacher gone and maybe rightfully so.

I remember in HS our english class had a real hard time with our freshman english teacher. My friends and I really enjoyed him, but the other more proactive students had their parents make a few calls and the teacher was not back next year...and they made it aware they were responsible for it.

It is all about learning styles, this teacher is not accomodating all modes of learning.

 

[Lorn]

I find it humerous that you have the nerve to comment on my 'education' status...
Yet your 'Song Recommendation of the Moment' is a song by Bright Eyes - quite possibly the most popular highschool emo sappy crybaby musician out right now.

Keep talking.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Vic
:roll:

I'd like to see any of you survive as a teacher in a classroom for longer than 10 minutes.

I'd probably behave alot worse than that teacher did, with my awful temper, but I'm no teacher, so that's not a problem.
"You try doing it better" is one of the stupidest arguments people pull up in just about every discussion where someone has done a bad job of something.

No $hit I couldn't do <insert whatever job here> better than <insert guy with said job here>, it's not my friggin' job to do so, it's his job.

 

[amol]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Amol
WTF? What's with all the no answers???

I would have voted "HELL YES", but there was no choice for that

You have to keep in mind that the majority on this board haven't even finished high school yet. It's sad when you have about of 15 year olds talking out their butt trying to be convincing philosophically enlightened adults.

ummm . . . I'm a Sophomore in High School . . . . .

 

[Lorn]

Good discussion, Neuro. Good luck with your studies.

 

[Neurorelay]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: Vic
:roll:

I'd like to see any of you survive as a teacher in a classroom for longer than 10 minutes.

You should never have to "survive." If that is your thinking, you shouldn't be there. You want to, as well as your students thrive and rejoice in the process of community and learning. This will be the only safe environment for many of these students for the rest of their lives.

But I see your point, it does take a strong individual to love those who do not want to be loved.

 

[JoeKing]

Originally posted by: NOLOVE
I find it humerous that you have the nerve to comment on my 'education' status...
Yet your 'Song Recommendation of the Moment' is a song by Bright Eyes - quite possibly the most popular highschool emo sappy crybaby musician out right now.

Keep talking.

lol now who's pulling jabs. Just like a high school student to believe genres of music belong to a stringent section of society and heaven forbid other people outside of their perceived "norms" should listen to and enjoy it!

Revisit this thread after hmm I'd say your 2nd year of college and then ask yourself, Gee did I really think like that?

and why would you find it insulting that I was able to perceive your grade level?

 

[Neurorelay]

For the "philosophically enlightened", you can see a straw man argument being developed which will lead into a slippery slope of fallacies and illogical recourses.

Move to P & N, move to P & N.