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Teacher pulls chair out from under student?

P

Pciber

Senior member
http://www.snigle.net/DucoNihilum/chair.wmv

story

A student named Jay (who wants his last name to be withheld) at Brick Township High School in New Jersey, had his chair pulled out from under him after he refused to stand for the national anthem. The class started out that morning with Mantel yelling "I don't want to hear a sound! Not a sound! Morning exercises will come on, you will stand, you will stand quietly, you will pay attention! Any Questions!?...Now stand up and keep your mouths shut!" Students stood up as the national anthem began playing.
In the middle of the anthem, Mantel walked over to Jay and demanded that he stand up. Jay silently refused, and Mantel yelled again, "Stand up!". Jay then said "I don't have to stand up". To which Mantel insisted "You have to stand." Jay said "No I don't". Mantel then reached over and pulled Jay's chair out from under him. Jay responded to Stuart Mantel's outrageous behavior by asking Mantel "Are you serious?", to which Mantel yelled "I am damn well serious."
Jay said that he didn't have any political reasons for his refusal to stand but that he wanted to sit because he feels it is his right to do so and that right was being threatened by Mantel. Jay said that he thought Mantel might tell him to stand, but he never expected to be physically forced to do so.
Jay's friend who was in the class at the time, Corey, says that their teacher had been strict in the past in demanding that students stand for the national anthem and pledge of allegiance. That's why they brought in a camera - to expose the teacher in case he did anything again. "The teacher and school principals wanted him (Mantel) to press charges against us...they tried to blame it on us like it was premeditated, like we did it just to get him on tape, which is false. We knew he was gonna go nuts because he frequently used to" said Corey.
Jay's other classmate Steve got suspended for 10 days for filming the incident. The school told Corey that it "violated the teacher's constitutional rights" for them to film the teacher without his permission."I think that its crazy that people are getting in trouble for this or things they say. There have been so many kids video taping and no one ever got in trouble for it. So why now?" Jay asked. It sounds as if the school is punishing this student now because of the nature of what's on the tape, not the fact they were taping the teacher without his permission.
When I asked Corey if Mantel was being punished for pulling out Jay's chair, he said "Nope...I asked (the principal) 'What are you doing to discipline Mantel?' and they said 'we talked'. Teachers do anything they want". Seeing acts like Mantel's go unpunished will likely inspire teachers to continue intimidating their students into standing for the national anthem and pledge of allegiance.

If you would like to let Brick Schools know how you feel about their handling of this situation, you may contact them here:

Brick Township Public Schools
Board of Education
101 Hendrickson Ave
Brick, NJ 08723
732-785-3000

Brick Township High School
346 Chambers Bridge Road
Brick, NJ 08723
(732)262-2500
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The teacher should be punished for this incident, but not severely, imho. He violated the student's rights, but in a non-violent way. It seems like the teacher was just in a terrible mood, and was going to get respect into these kids, weather they liked it or not.

What the student did wasn't proper, it wasn't respectful, but he had the right to do it, which is what makes this country great. Maybe that day he just felt particularly pissed off towards the country about the war, or maybe he was just a stupid teen making a stand against his teacher.

 
I didnt even know they still sang the national anthem in schools anymore. We stopped saying the pledge when I was in 5th grade.
 
Originally posted by: CheapArse
You don't have to recite the pledge but at least stand to show respect...
Click to expand...

You know I totally agree with you.

But shouldnt it be your right to not show respect? I mean sh!t we can burn the mother fvcking flag. Thats been to the supreme court and was shot down. The kid has a right to choose to sit or stand. If doesnt want to show respect he shouldnt have to.
 
Originally posted by: illusion88
But shouldnt it be your right to not show respect? I mean sh!t we can burn the mother fvcking flag. Thats been to the supreme court and was shot down. The kid has a right to choose to sit or stand. If doesnt want to show respect he shouldnt have to.
Click to expand...

I think students should also have the right not to attend class... after all, it's a free country.

When you're at school, you show respect when respect is due, or you pay the consequences. Simple.
 
for a while in high school, i didn't recite the pledge, but i still stood, out of respect. the same way you stand for another country's national anthem.
heh i got dual citizenship now (indian and US) so i'm basically going to be on my feet my whole life 🙁
-Vivan
 
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: illusion88
But shouldnt it be your right to not show respect? I mean sh!t we can burn the mother fvcking flag. Thats been to the supreme court and was shot down. The kid has a right to choose to sit or stand. If doesnt want to show respect he shouldnt have to.
Click to expand...

I think students should also have the right not to attend class... after all, it's a free country.

When you're at school, you show respect when respect is due, or you pay the consequences. Simple.
Click to expand...

Well if it werent for those pesky laws he could skip class. Unfortunatly his parents would get called to court and asked why their child wasnt attending class. He doesn't have to show respect to the flag if he doesn't want to.
 
Originally posted by: illusion88
Originally posted by: CheapArse
You don't have to recite the pledge but at least stand to show respect...
Click to expand...

You know I totally agree with you.

But shouldnt it be your right to not show respect? I mean sh!t we can burn the mother fvcking flag. Thats been to the supreme court and was shot down. The kid has a right to choose to sit or stand. If doesnt want to show respect he shouldnt have to.
Click to expand...

I don't think it is about rights, its about respect or the lack there of in this case.
 
rather than use physical force to enforce an arbitrary symbolic gesture of "respect" for something that is in that child's rights to not respect, the teacher (whose job is to TEACH, not bully) would have been far better served by explaining to the child WHY he might consider respecting the flag, and then let him draw his own conclusions and act upon them accordingly. you can't just say, "you have to do this because we say so," and expect that to result in a profound respect for anything other than authoritarian muscle.
 
Sigh, just another kid trying to be a punk badass. If you don't want to recite the pledge, fine don't. But like others have said, show a little respect. Should the teacher have pulled the chair out from under him, no. But I really have a hard time feeling sorry for a kid who is just trying to be an ass in the first place.
 
Originally posted by: CheapArse
Originally posted by: illusion88
Originally posted by: CheapArse
You don't have to recite the pledge but at least stand to show respect...
Click to expand...

You know I totally agree with you.

But shouldnt it be your right to not show respect? I mean sh!t we can burn the mother fvcking flag. Thats been to the supreme court and was shot down. The kid has a right to choose to sit or stand. If doesnt want to show respect he shouldnt have to.
Click to expand...

I don't think it is about rights, its about respect or the lack there of in this case.
Click to expand...

how about respect for physical safety and the first amendment?
 
he still has absolutely no right to use physical force... i mean, people go ape sh1t over kids hurting other kids physically, why should teacher's, the people that are supposed to be our role models be allowed to do sh1t like that?
 
Originally posted by: thomsbrain
how about respect for physical safety and the first amendment?
Click to expand...

Students forfeit many of their rights as soon as they walk into a public school. Sad, but true.
 
Originally posted by: CheapArse
Originally posted by: illusion88
Originally posted by: CheapArse
You don't have to recite the pledge but at least stand to show respect...
Click to expand...

You know I totally agree with you.

But shouldnt it be your right to not show respect? I mean sh!t we can burn the mother fvcking flag. Thats been to the supreme court and was shot down. The kid has a right to choose to sit or stand. If doesnt want to show respect he shouldnt have to.
Click to expand...

I don't think it is about rights, its about respect or the lack there of in this case.
Click to expand...

See here is where we disagree. I believe that it is about his right to show respect for the flag. If he doesn't want to, for whatever reason be it politically motivated or not, he shouldn't have to. I believe that the teacher was in the wrong here, he should have realised that the kid had a right to sit down.
 
exactly -^

if the teacher did that to my kid I'd break his arms

if i want my kid treated like that, ill send him to military school
 
Originally posted by: illusion88
...he should have realised that the kid had a right to sit down.
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Where does this policy end, though? What if the kid didn't feel like lining up at the end of the day with the other kids (assuming elementary age)? That wouldn't be tolerated...
 
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: thomsbrain
how about respect for physical safety and the first amendment?
Click to expand...

Students forfeit many of their rights as soon as they walk into a public school. Sad, but true.
Click to expand...

Very true, but I know of no school that forces you to pay respect to the flag. Maybe its cause im from the liberal west... who knows. As far as I am concerned he should not have to stand up for the pledge or national anthem. It's his own choice, let him make it.
 
Originally posted by: thomsbrain
Originally posted by: CheapArse
Originally posted by: illusion88
Originally posted by: CheapArse
You don't have to recite the pledge but at least stand to show respect...
Click to expand...

You know I totally agree with you.

But shouldnt it be your right to not show respect? I mean sh!t we can burn the mother fvcking flag. Thats been to the supreme court and was shot down. The kid has a right to choose to sit or stand. If doesnt want to show respect he shouldnt have to.
Click to expand...

I don't think it is about rights, its about respect or the lack there of in this case.
Click to expand...

how about respect for physical safety and the first amendment?
Click to expand...

I never said the techer handled it the right way and people are too quick to throw the 1st amendment in there as if its the case & point of an argument.
 
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