Tea Party marchers -- what is their solution to the nation's health care problem?

[WhipperSnapper]

(Moderators--this subject deserves to be a separate thread because the other thread seems to be a debate about why the Tea Party marchers didn't march against the previous administration's spending policies.)

A lot of hubbub has been made over the Tea Party marchers, but i haven't read much about what exactly they are advocating for the nation's health care policy. So what is the Tea Partiers' solution to the nation's health care problems and what policy do they support?

Do they support the current status quo--the one where the U.S. is paying nearly 17% of it's GDP while leaving tens of millions of people uninsured or under-insured with the rest of the populace living in terror of losing their health care while other first world nations are spending a much smaller percentage of their GDP on health care while having 100% coverage?

If they truly support fiscal conservatism and saving money, then why aren't they advocating for socialized medicine and for the nation spending a smaller percentage of its GDP on health care?

Do they oppose Obama's plan because it would change the status quo or do they oppose it because it is a band-aid as opposed to rational advocacy of socialized medicine and national health care?

In other words, are the Tea Party protesters protesting because they are MORONS who support the current, expensive status quo, or are they protesting because they support less expensive national health care and they're angry that the government hasn't enacted it yet?

I'm guessing that they're morons who enjoy paying more for health care while getting less and that they support private health insurance Death Panels.

 

[jpeyton]

The 9/12 tea party protests had nothing to do with health care. They were mostly about Obama being a Kenyan neo-Nazi anti-Christ.

 

[BushLin]

+1 for most of them not even understanding the healthcare issue and just fronting other agendas.

 

[alchemize]

I think you're all scared that the GOP seems to have whipped up it's base again, something it was unable to do in the presidential election that was remarkably close given how crappy the McCain/Palin ticket was.

Nice troll thread though, starting out calling everyone who disagrees with you morons a few times. Par for the course.

(and no, I wasn't a tea party marcher, but I have huge issues with where our country has been and is going fiscally)

 

[SirStev0]

My response in the other thread.

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: SirStev0

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: alchemize
So you're OK with the next 3.5 years of insane deficit spending that dwarfs any previous spending (GOP or DEM), cause there wasn't any teabagging during the bush admin. Got it.

Insane spending? He is talking about spending 100 billion a year to protect the health of OUR entire fvcking nation. He wants to improve and save lives. Bush spent more than that just in Iraq alone on a hunt that ended with no WMDs and thousands dead for nothing. Did you GET that, you bleeping

So you're OK with it too, just like jpeyton and dealmonkey. Got it, you bleeping.

You are a moron. Many, Many, Many people were outraged, and said it, about Bush's insane spending. The point is, (are you ready) the people outraged and teabagging now ARE NOT the people outraged and Bush insulting back then.

They could care less about out of control spending when Bush was doing it and only care now because they are racist partisans. Now believe me, I find it just as deplorable that all the partisan democrats who lambasted Bush's spending are not doing the same with Obama and the Do-Nothings (Congress for the last 20 years).

It is just absurd that these people pretend this is about anything other than being scared and outraged of the half-black democrat in office. It has nothing to do with debt or spending and everything to do with simple-minded people. Just be fucking honest for once.

My biggest problem is that they are wasting our time with their racism and getting in the way of progress and fixing shit.

If I pull up say...5 posts where I complained about Bush's spending, will you teabag me?

Lol. Believe me, I realize there are a select few, aka Ron Paul supporters, who generally care about the fact that our country blows money like me around hookers and coke; However, you have to admit that the vast majority of these teabagger care nothing about spending unless a democrat is doing it. They just want their opportunity to protest and make a scene and do whatever they can to waste our tme and let shit get worse.



I have to say my absolute favorite part of all this garbage is my one uncle. I can not tell you the countless times he has belittled college kids protesting things. Talking about how pathetic they were. About they guys being all "whinny faggots" and the girls a bunch of overprivilaged dykes. He went to a Teabagging event a few months ago and was telling me all aobut how moved and empowered and blah blah he was. Nothing was better than the change of expression he had when I pointed out he sounded like Haley Koch.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: alchemize
I think you're all scared that the GOP seems to have whipped up it's base again, something it was unable to do in the presidential election

Really? I remember the McCain/Palin rallies drawing a more people than the 9/12 tea party, day after day. Furthermore, those crowds were largely filled with the same Obama-is-a-socialist-communist-Marxist-Nazi-Kenyan-Stalinist crowd that were at the tea parties. It didn't scare us then, nor does it scare us now.

that was remarkably close given how crappy the McCain/Palin ticket was.

In what universe is getting over 210% more electoral votes and 8.5 million popular votes considered "remarkably close"? The GOP got shellacked.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: alchemize
I think you're all scared that the GOP seems to have whipped up it's base again, something it was unable to do in the presidential election

Really? I remember the McCain/Palin rallies drawing a more people than the 9/12 tea party, day after day. Furthermore, those crowds were largely filled with the same Obama-is-a-socialist-communist-Marxist-Nazi-Kenyan-Stalinist crowd that were at the tea parties. It didn't scare us then, nor does it scare us now.

that was remarkably close given how crappy the McCain/Palin ticket was.

In what universe is getting over 210% more electoral votes and 8.5 million popular votes considered "remarkably close"? The GOP got shellacked.

And the 2010 midterms are shaping up to be another 1994.

 

[piasabird]

Some people believe in Freedom. Lately it seems like democrats do not believe in Democracy. Even the Press has its own agenda. The press is involved in indoctrination and brainwashing. How can any message get out from the right? There is absolutely no chance for people to fight against an organized socialist communist fascist press.

It has been said that freedom flourishes without intervention from the do-gooders in the government. Sometimes when the government does nothing, that is when people flourish. It is government intervention in the real estate business that forced banks to underwrite loans without a 20% down payment. Heaven forbid we admit that some kind of down payment is necessary for a firm foundation in the real estate industry. It is also the Federal Reserve that set the interest rates so low to make it easier to get loans. This also percipitated in the real estate boom and bust. Some serious pain is required for the adjustments to the real estate business to get it back on track. O'Bammah has done nothing about this. He is a spineless idiot wanting America to go further and further into debt to install his communist agenda. Bigger and more government is not the solution to anything but pain and suffering.

No more speding.

Cut current spending.

Start firing federal employees.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Wreckem
And the 2010 midterms are shaping up to be another 1994.

Seeing as how the Democrats will keep their majorities in both houses of Congress, I don't see how it will be like 1994 at all.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

So the Teabaggers really weren't primarily focused on the issue of health care?

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

So the Teabaggers really weren't primarily focused on the issue of health care?

Supposedly, it was the big government and spending. It couldn't be the taxes (although I saw many signs stating as much on the news) as the federal income tax rates (and burden) are at 50 year lows (if not more).

 

[First]

Yup, the Tea Parties haven't really at all been about healthcare, and are mostly far right-wing fringe crazies, a lot of whom are ultra-conservative/Libtertarian with brilliant solutions to solve problems; like impeaching Obama because he was born in Kenya or ending the Fed because apparently they caused the economic crisis. In other words, crackpots. What's worse, is that they breed.

 

[piasabird]

More spending requires higher taxes. This is how the government works. You need to take economics.

The only guarantee is that if you give the government more tax dollars that they will spend more than they give you and then ask for more.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

But isn't the health care issue the issue that has really riled them up? I've been under that distinct impression.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: piasabird
More spending requires higher taxes. This is how the government works. You need to take economics.

LOL. When was the last time the US Federal government raised taxes? I would bet to say that they increased spending during EVERY single year since then too (hint: Clinton's first term gives you the answer). You either borrow or tax. Right now, we are in borrow mode and have been increasing that for nearly a decade.

 

[piasabird]

Health care = more taxes. People do not want to trust the government. If it smells like a tax and it looks like a tax then it is a tax.

You might ask yourself why UPS and Fed-EX does so well. The answer is they are not run by the government.

 

[SirStev0]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

But isn't the health care issue the issue that has really riled them up? I've been under that distinct impression.

Most of the pictures of funny signs were of "death panels" and "socialism". With that said they are not for or against anything specific, they are just Anti-Obama.

Obama could go on network TV and announce to the nation that he likes fluffy bunnies and the next day there would be T-Baggers holding anti-bunny signs.

 

[BMW540I6speed]

I just don't get it. Don't any of these folks find the comparison between Obama and Hitler/Stalin/Mao/Saddam/Mussolini/Pol Pot/et al to be an incredible insult to the people who *actually suffered* under these despots?

"So your grandparents lost their families in Nazi concentration camps? Well, Barack Obama tried to get the government to pay for my health insurance! It's exactly the same!"

I mean really, wtf?

Doesn't the fact that people can go to Obama's events to heckle - and packing heat, no less - invalidate the claim that he has created a police state? Doesn't the continued popularity of Glenn Beck (god help us all) demonstrate that dissidents are not, in fact, being sent to the fields for re-education? These people look like everyday ordinary middle class Americans. But, there they are holding up these utterly wacko and ridiculous signs.

What's happening today is no different from McCarthyism or any other time politicians have used fear as a tool to create frenzy and fear in the most ignorant of society. While I had my issues with Bush jr., I never doubted his citizenship nor his humanity. These people want to dehumanize Obama, and to me, sorry, that smacks of racism, or at least "otherism".

The only reason I can think why anyone who considers themselves fiscally conservative and would still vote for todays Republicans (including Ron Paul) is because they are irrational and not so good with math or history or what economic freedom means for most of the world.

The worst mistake they make is that they think tax cuts are tax cuts. They're not - they're tax deferments, which you will have to pay someday, with interest. It's like saying that the sweater you bought on credit card for $100 is cheaper than the sweater you paid $125 for...except you don't pay the sweater off for 4 years, and it ends up costing you $200 with the interest payments. What are the tea baggers really complaining about? It can't be taxes. We're the least taxed western industrialized nation. Our taxation to GDP ratio is the lowest in the world.

Do they think they get a bad deal for their tax dollars? They should step back and think about it. The average American will pay roughly 300K to 600K in taxes over the course of their entire lifetime. That's just enough to pay one year in salaries for maybe 10 government employees. Over the course of a lifetime, Americans will utilize the work of millions of government employees. They'll travel hundreds of thousands of miles on government roads and bridges. They'll use 911 services provided by government. They'll send their kids to schools and universities built and staffed by the government. Their state will probably have been helped significantly in emergency situations by the government. They'll use libraries built and staffed by the government. Just those things mentioned above cost billions.They paid a fraction of that over the course of their entire lives.

Tell me, what self-respecting "socialist", much less a communist, would have sent hundreds of billions of dollars to billionaire capitalists to bail them out? He has "nationalized" all of 0.21% of the economy since taking office.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
I just don't get it. Don't any of these folks find the comparison between Obama and Hitler/Stalin/Mao/Saddam/Mussolini/Pol Pot/et al to be an incredible insult to the people who *actually suffered* under these despots?

"So your grandparents lost their families in Nazi concentration camps? Well, Barack Obama tried to get the government to pay for my health insurance! It's exactly the same!"

Heh, there's some sweet irony going on.

/cue "but Bush Nazi comparisons were spot-on!"

 

[Sinsear]

If we just tax the rich we should be able to pay for health reform.

 

[BushLin]

Originally posted by: Sinsear
If we just tax the rich we should be able to pay for health reform.

Shhhh... The Socialist plans to pay for the health reforms come after they're passed

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Health care = more taxes. People do not want to trust the government. If it smells like a tax and it looks like a tax then it is a tax.

You might ask yourself why UPS and Fed-EX does so well. The answer is they are not run by the government.

But Obama said in his speech that new taxes will not pay for his proposal, nor will Medicare be touched.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: alchemize
I think you're all scared that the GOP seems to have whipped up it's base again, something it was unable to do in the presidential election that was remarkably close given how crappy the McCain/Palin ticket was.

Some Democrats are scared of the GOP whipping up its base right now. The question is if they are whipping up their base, why are they doing so? What are they advocating? So far, they seem to be angry about something - but that something seems quite disorganized. You cannot point to a specific reason other than "too much spending", which is a smokescreen issue to tie them all together at best. With the track record of the GOP base as it stands now (neocons out of power), any resurgence damn well should scare democrats and moderates alike.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
I just don't get it. Don't any of these folks find the comparison between Obama and Hitler/Stalin/Mao/Saddam/Mussolini/Pol Pot/et al to be an incredible insult to the people who *actually suffered* under these despots?

"So your grandparents lost their families in Nazi concentration camps? Well, Barack Obama tried to get the government to pay for my health insurance! It's exactly the same!"

I mean really, wtf?

Doesn't the fact that people can go to Obama's events to heckle - and packing heat, no less - invalidate the claim that he has created a police state? Doesn't the continued popularity of Glenn Beck (god help us all) demonstrate that dissidents are not, in fact, being sent to the fields for re-education? These people look like everyday ordinary middle class Americans. But, there they are holding up these utterly wacko and ridiculous signs.

What's happening today is no different from McCarthyism or any other time politicians have used fear as a tool to create frenzy and fear in the most ignorant of society. While I had my issues with Bush jr., I never doubted his citizenship nor his humanity. These people want to dehumanize Obama, and to me, sorry, that smacks of racism, or at least "otherism".

The only reason I can think why anyone who considers themselves fiscally conservative and would still vote for todays Republicans (including Ron Paul) is because they are irrational and not so good with math or history or what economic freedom means for most of the world.

The worst mistake they make is that they think tax cuts are tax cuts. They're not - they're tax deferments, which you will have to pay someday, with interest. It's like saying that the sweater you bought on credit card for $100 is cheaper than the sweater you paid $125 for...except you don't pay the sweater off for 4 years, and it ends up costing you $200 with the interest payments. What are the tea baggers really complaining about? It can't be taxes. We're the least taxed western industrialized nation. Our taxation to GDP ratio is the lowest in the world.

Do they think they get a bad deal for their tax dollars? They should step back and think about it. The average American will pay roughly 300K to 600K in taxes over the course of their entire lifetime. That's just enough to pay one year in salaries for maybe 10 government employees. Over the course of a lifetime, Americans will utilize the work of millions of government employees. They'll travel hundreds of thousands of miles on government roads and bridges. They'll use 911 services provided by government. They'll send their kids to schools and universities built and staffed by the government. Their state will probably have been helped significantly in emergency situations by the government. They'll use libraries built and staffed by the government. Just those things mentioned above cost billions.They paid a fraction of that over the course of their entire lives.

Tell me, what self-respecting "socialist", much less a communist, would have sent hundreds of billions of dollars to billionaire capitalists to bail them out? He has "nationalized" all of 0.21% of the economy since taking office.

Very good points BMW. Well put.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: BushLin

Originally posted by: Sinsear
If we just tax the rich we should be able to pay for health reform.

Shhhh... The Socialist plans to pay for the health reforms come after they're passed

Taking a page from their Conservative GOP brethren on healthcare/prescription reform I take it..

:beer: