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Taxpayers On The Hook To Feed Children

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michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
Yea, helping kids eat sure is a terrible thing, that money could go murdering a bunch of children in a foreign country. Also someone has to help keep the rightwing base alive, most of them are too stupid to live without government handouts.
aww look at how cute the liberals are.

come back with more then a stupid appeal to emtion. and a overt attempt at changing the subject.

Oh wait, you can't because without emtion you can't defend your position.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
liberals have no problems rewarding those that fail at life. and then calling those that question those rewards evil.
Another person who doesn't understand what a reward is. Even with the safety net provided in 1st world countries people who fail at life live significantly worse lives than people that succeed. You are not rewarded for failure, you are simply not punished as harshly.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
62,293
14,490
136
So much for liberals believing in facts.
That just shows people with money are evenly divided, and that poor people vote democratic. It does not support your original contention, at all.

Your ability to see whatever you want to see in a chart remains unchanged.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
Then based on your only just stated beliefs a fetus (at least before viability) is just a bunch of unwanted cells. It is no different than say a rotting tooth. How then would abortion be immoral?
I did not state that belief. You are extrapolating from what I stated based on your own beliefs. I believe an abortion is immoral because reasonable steps can almost always be taken to avoid it, and also because the sacrifice on the woman's part is lesser than the potential for human life. But I cannot physically force any person to sacrifice the right to their body.

Similarly, I believe that if a child needs an organ to survive and the parent is a match, it would be wrong (immoral) for the parent to choose not to give that organ to their child (unless the organ transplant would kill the parent). Again though, I do not think the government can legally obligate the parent to give up that organ.

I think we should just agree to disagree on the morality of abortion though because that's not what this thread is about.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
23,044
4,716
146
I have no magic eight ball or other divination to help me determine which of these children's parents are poor because of poor life choices and which are poor because they got the short end of the stick. I'd rather err on the side of helping the children of those that got the short end of the stick that also happens to help the children of those that made poor life choices. Especially in light of the fact that the children are not really the ones that made those poor life choices.
Exactly. Children in this country should not have to suffer hunger because of the situation they were born into. And while there is no way to ensure that completely, I am happy to support programs trying to feed them, with my tax money.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
6
0
But I cannot physically force any person to sacrifice the right to their body.
Sure you can. For example:

The draft
Mandatory child support
laws against prostitution
laws against drug use

Society pretty clearly CAN tell people what to do with their body.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
Sure you can. For example:

The draft
Mandatory child support
laws against prostitution
laws against drug use

Society pretty clearly CAN tell people what to do with their body.
You love to bring up child support here, and I disagree that it's a fundamental right to body issue (and have indicated as such in the past).

I'm not in favor of any of the others.

But you're continuing to nitpick my views on the morality of abortion when it's completely tangential to the actual discussion, especially when we both believe abortion should be legal.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
6
0
Another person who doesn't understand what a reward is. Even with the safety net provided in 1st world countries people who fail at life live significantly worse lives than people that succeed. You are not rewarded for failure, you are simply not punished as harshly.
If you consider being mailed money, food coupons, housing vouchers, etc to be "punishment" feel free to punish me anytime.

Should I provide my address to you?
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
If you consider being mailed money, food coupons, housing vouchers, etc to be "punishment" feel free to punish me anytime.

Should I provide my address to you?
Are you saying you would like to trade situations with those that are unemployed and living in section 8 housing? If you want to give up your income, stop working and move into the ghetto I'm sure the government would be more than happy to provide you those things.

Would you call a demotion at work (and pay cut) a government reward because you'll be paying less in taxes?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
6
0
Are you saying you would like to trade situations with those that are unemployed and living in section 8 housing? If you want to give up your income, stop working and move into the ghetto I'm sure the government would be more than happy to provide you those things.
You do realize that section 8 housing is not always in the ghetto. And I read an article about it...the woman lived in a nicer abode than I have EVER lived in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_8_(housing)
The maximum allowed voucher is $2200 a month
Living in the ghetto has sure gotten expensive :rolleyes:

Would you call a demotion at work (and pay cut) a government reward because you'll be paying less in taxes?
How is getting money from the government in anyway the same as a demotion.

If you CHOOSE to have a child you cannot afford what is the government taking away from.

If having a child is such a burden then why did the woman CHOOSE to have it?

Either

1.) They do not view it as a burden.

2.) They are an idiot.

Neither of those cases is an argument for rewarding them with government funds. And (2) is an outright argument for mandatory abortions.

EDIT: And sure if you want to give me a $2200/month housing voucher, free health care, and food stamps I would quit my job tomorrow.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
33,696
12,477
146
^ Any section 8 housing I've been in has never ever ever ever been alluring. In fact, I can't wait to GTFO asap.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
461
126
^ Any section 8 housing I've been in has never ever ever ever been alluring. In fact, I can't wait to GTFO asap.
In my experience there are a small minority of Section 8 renters that actually keep their homes very well, so that if you didn't know it was Section 8 you'd never suspect it.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
You do realize that section 8 housing is not always in the ghetto. And I read an article about it...the woman lived in a nicer abode than I have EVER lived in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_8_(housing)


Living in the ghetto has sure gotten expensive :rolleyes:
Well I guess if you can find some outliers it magically makes section 8 housing awesome.

How is getting money from the government in anyway the same as a demotion.
I'm just trying to figure out what a reward is according to you guys. Do you consider paying less taxes a punishment? You need to choose whether reward/punishment is viewed holistically (impact on life) or narrowly (net impact on government wealth transfer). Saying that those who make poor life choices are rewarded is necessarily the narrow view. If you view it holistically, you will see that those who make poor life choices live worse lives. That means they are still punished, overall, by the system.

If you CHOOSE to have a child you cannot afford what is the government taking away from.

If having a child is such a burden then why did the woman CHOOSE to have it?

Either

1.) They do not view it as a burden.
2.) They are an idiot.

Neither of those cases is an argument for rewarding them with government funds. And (2) is an outright argument for mandatory abortions.
Or they could have religious/moral beliefs surrounding abortion. But even after government transfers they are still punished by the system.

EDIT: And sure if you want to give me a $2200/month housing voucher, free health care, and food stamps I would quit my job tomorrow.
Then go do it. No one is stopping you. If you're rewarded for making poor life choices then go make those choices. Reap your 'rewards', and then report back on how awesome your life is.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
6
0
Or they could have religious/moral beliefs surrounding abortion. But even after government transfers they are still punished by the system.
No they are being punished by THEIR religious/moral beliefs. They are being rewarded by the system.

Then go do it. No one is stopping you. If you're rewarded for making poor life choices then go make those choices. Reap your 'rewards', and then report back on how awesome your life is.
You mean except for the fact that I do not have a child to use to extort the benefits from the government?
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
Are you saying you would like to trade situations with those that are unemployed and living in section 8 housing? If you want to give up your income, stop working and move into the ghetto I'm sure the government would be more than happy to provide you those things.

Would you call a demotion at work (and pay cut) a government reward because you'll be paying less in taxes?
I work for an agency that provides financing for multifamily section 8 housing, the section 8 housing we provide financing for well maintained and not in the ghetto.
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
aww look at how cute the liberals are.

come back with more then a stupid appeal to emtion. and a overt attempt at changing the subject.

Oh wait, you can't because without emtion you can't defend your position.
You can't even spell emotion right, and you expect any of us to take anything you say seriously? Its not a difficult word, only 7 letters.

If wanting to prevent child abuse makes you a fascist... o_O
Its almost like there is a better solution then involuntary sterilization on someone who you think deserves it. Like something to help them with their addiction. No, that's too much thinking for someone like you.
 
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actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
No they are being punished by THEIR religious/moral beliefs. They are being rewarded by the system.
You could make the argument that they're rewarded by the government (I disagree, but at least there's some logic to it), but they are not rewarded by the system. Their lives do not improve.

You mean except for the fact that I do not have a child to use to extort the benefits from the government?
You don't need a child to 'extort the benefits from the government'. You may get less benefits, but benefits you will get.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
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No they are being punished by THEIR religious/moral beliefs. They are being rewarded by the system.



You mean except for the fact that I do not have a child to use to extort the benefits from the government?
Well said, These idiot single mothers are popping out babies only to get more welfare
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
6
0
You could make the argument that they're rewarded by the government (I disagree, but at least there's some logic to it), but they are not rewarded by the system. Their lives do not improve.
And what is the "system" if not the government?

We are describing people who are CHOOSING to make their own lives worse. They are not being punished my some "system". Their own CHOICES are making their life worse... assuming they even agree that it is worse.
 

Xecuter

Golden Member
Aug 17, 2004
1,596
0
76
Well said, These idiot single mothers are popping out babies only to get more welfare
I wish you could "pop out [a] baby" or two and tell me how rewarding of a life you'll live as a welfare queen single mother - because that sounds like a damn good deal.

- queue nehalem bitching about women
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
86
I wish you could "pop out [a] baby" or two and tell me how rewarding of a life you'll live as a welfare queen single mother - because that sounds like a damn good deal.

- queue nehalem bitching about women
There are women who have admitted to doing this and make good money
 

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