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Taxpayers On The Hook To Feed Children

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actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
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And this is why you keep people who are too poor/stupid/crazy to raise children from having them in the first place.
You can't legally 'keep them' from doing it, but you can certainly do things to encourage it not to happen, and I agree. Make abortion legal everywhere (and possibly even federally fund abortions), provide proper pregnancy prevention sex education in school, and provide free (not just no deductible) birth control and distribute it at high schools/universities.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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You don't value fairness, you just like to keep a men vs women tab, and ensure that in each category women is never > then men (but conveniently ignore the categories in the other direction). If you truly value fairness then black people should be able to collect those benefits earlier so that they on average will get the same benefits.
That would seem reasonable. Social Security benefits should be adjusted to reflect individual life expectancy from retirement age based on sex and race.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
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That would seem reasonable. Social Security benefits should be adjusted to reflect individual life expectancy from retirement age based on sex and race.
Why only sex and race? What do you have against diabetics, smokers and the obese?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Why only sex and race? What do you have against diabetics, smokers and the obese?
Smoking and obesity are unhealthy life choices.

Gender and race are not choices.

As for diabetics. Unfortunately diabetes is used to describe 2 different diseases. One of which is correlated with obesity and life choices.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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You can't legally 'keep them' from doing it, but you can certainly do things to encourage it not to happen, and I agree. Make abortion legal everywhere (and possibly even federally fund abortions), provide proper pregnancy prevention sex education in school, and provide free (not just no deductible) birth control and distribute it at high schools/universities.
You are assuming that the people do not want to have babies.

But hey lets hope that pregnant teenagers and drug addicts and high school dropouts will start making good choices. :rolleyes:
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
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Smoking and obesity are unhealthy life choices.

Gender and race are not choices.

As for diabetics. Unfortunately diabetes is used to describe 2 different diseases. One of which is correlated with obesity and life choices.
I never claimed they weren't choices. It still affects their life expectancy though, possibly even more so than race and sex.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
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You are assuming that the people do not want to have babies.

But hey lets hope that pregnant teenagers and drug addicts and high school dropouts will start making good choices. :rolleyes:
Are you assuming that every teenage pregnancy is intended? So somehow it's more logical to do nothing and just complain that they make bad choices?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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I never claimed they weren't choices. It still affects their life expectancy though, possibly even more so than race and sex.
And we should be rewarding poor life choices why?

Children get to choose their parents?
Please stop using children as hostages to justify your immoral ideology.

And your point is irrelevant anyway as I would prevent children from being born to as many bad parents as I could.

Not that you would care as you are on the record defending the right of a drug addict, who had 7 previous children removed for abusing them, to have more children if she so chose.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Are you assuming that every teenage pregnancy is intended? So somehow it's more logical to do nothing and just complain that they make bad choices?
Not all. But are you telling me that there are teenagers who do not know about birth control... and if they dont how do they know what hole to put it in :D
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
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And we should be rewarding poor life choices why?
We're not 'rewarding' them. I don't think you understand what a reward is. We're paying them out based on their life expectancy. Do you think that men collecting first is rewarding their gender?

lease stop using children as hostages to justify your immoral ideology.

And your point is irrelevant anyway as I would prevent children from being born to as many bad parents as I could.

Not that you would care as you are on the record defending the right of a drug addict, who had 7 previous children removed for abusing them, to have more children if she so chose.
Clearly you wouldn't try to prevent them, as you've never shown any inclination to other than saying you do. Talk is cheap, come up with a plan.

I would be interested to see that record you have on me saying that, unless of course you are simply putting forth another straw man.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
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Not all. But are you telling me that there are teenagers who do not know about birth control... and if they dont how do they know what hole to put it in :D
We need to implement a system in P&N where posters can vote 'straw man' on posts (similar to the facebook 'like' button) and somewhere where we could see who's voted the straw man king.

Proposing freely available birth control is definitely the same thing as claiming that teenagers don't know which hole to put birth control in, you got me!
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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We need to implement a system in P&N where posters can vote 'straw man' on posts (similar to the facebook 'like' button) and somewhere where we could see who's voted the straw man king.

Proposing freely available birth control is definitely the same thing as claiming that teenagers don't know which hole to put birth control in, you got me!
The 2nd part is in reference to

You can't legally 'keep them' from doing it, but you can certainly do things to encourage it not to happen, and I agree. Make abortion legal everywhere (and possibly even federally fund abortions), provide proper pregnancy prevention sex education in school, and provide free (not just no deductible) birth control and distribute it at high schools/universities.
But let us continue. You wish for the government to treat people as children. Then lets treat people like children; no rational person would allow a child to be a parent :D
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
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But let us continue. You wish for the government to treat people as children. Then lets treat people like children; no rational person would allow a child to be a parent :D
As I suspected, another straw man. The sex education should start prior to the kids becoming sexually active. And proper sex education is not simply "birth control exists". Many adults couldn't tell you the pros/cons and the efficacy of condoms vs the pill, IUDs or the shot.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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As I suspected, another straw man. The sex education should start prior to the kids becoming sexually active.
It does.

And proper sex education is not simply "birth control exists". Many adults couldn't tell you the pros/cons and the efficacy of condoms vs the pill, IUDs or the shot.
And many adults cannot recall many things they learned in school. Why do you assume they will do a better job of recalling pros/cons and efficacy of different BC options?

And your EDUCATION WILL MAGICALLY SAVE US OPTION still fails to account for stupidity and people purposefully having children.
 

TeeJay1952

Golden Member
May 28, 2004
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The Affordable Healthcare Act provides free birth control to all. Doesn't that attempt to make a difference? Kids having kids is a problem, What are we going to do about it?
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
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And many adults cannot recall many things they learned in school. Why do you assume they will do a better job of recalling pros/cons and efficacy of different BC options?
So we just shouldn't bother teaching them at all then?

And your EDUCATION WILL MAGICALLY SAVE US OPTION still fails to account for stupidity and people purposefully having children.
Well, I guess if we can't come up with a solution that covers 100% of every situation perfectly there's no point in trying anything. Why bother making things better if it doesn't solve every single problem?
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
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The Affordable Healthcare Act provides free birth control to all. Doesn't that attempt to make a difference? Kids having kids is a problem, What are we going to do about it?
For one, that's been blocked in court, and you need to have insurance for it to make a difference.

But yes, moving towards easier access to birth control for teenagers is a good thing.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
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And we should be rewarding poor life choices why?



Please stop using children as hostages to justify your immoral ideology.

And your point is irrelevant anyway as I would prevent children from being born to as many bad parents as I could.

Not that you would care as you are on the record defending the right of a drug addict, who had 7 previous children removed for abusing them, to have more children if she so chose.
Those children already exist, and will always exist. Your fantasy of forced abortion will never become law, so arguing it'll solve anything is dishonest. You have admitted to such. We need real world solutions, not misogynist fantasy.

I'm not the one using children as hostages- you are. You'd starve them as an object lesson in support of your faux morality. Willingness to harm the hostage is a basic characteristic of all hostage takers, and you're no different.

Your representation of my position wrt the woman you mention is utterly false, which is why you fail to link the pertinent discussion. When such accusations are made, it is the accuser's responsibility to do so. Have at it.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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So we just shouldn't bother teaching them at all then?
We already do teach them.

Well, I guess if we can't come up with a solution that covers 100% of every situation perfectly there's no point in trying anything. Why bother making things better if it doesn't solve every single problem?
Because you are solution fails to address most of the issue. And is centered around trusting idiots to make good decisions. Gee, I wonder why that will not work? :hmm:
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Your representation of my position wrt the woman you mention is utterly false, which is why you fail to link the pertinent discussion. When such accusations are made, it is the accuser's responsibility to do so. Have at it.
In reference to preventing a drug addict child abuser from having children:

Forced sterilization? Why not put it in other terms, make a different offer, like "free & voluntary"?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
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Those children already exist, and will always exist. Your fantasy of forced abortion will never become law, so arguing it'll solve anything is dishonest. You have admitted to such. We need real world solutions, not misogynist fantasy.
They exist because you are too craven to tell women they cannot commit immoral acts.

China implemented a 1 child policy. If they can, then why can we not implement a simliar policy. Other than your a fore mentioned cowardice?
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
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We already do teach them.
So abstinence only education is just some made up fairly tale?

Because you are solution fails to address most of the issue. And is centered around trusting idiots to make good decisions. Gee, I wonder why that will not work? :hmm:
You believe most of the issue is people choosing to have kids?

Studies show that comprehensive sex education is more efficient at reducing teenage pregnancy than abstinent only education. So apparently education does have an impact on people's choices.

And my plan is not centered on trusting idiots to make good decisions. Doing nothing is centered on that. My plan is centered on teaching kids why their decisions are bad ones, and then providing them the means to make good decisions.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
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They exist because you are too craven to tell women they cannot commit immoral acts.

China implemented a 1 child policy. If they can, then why can we not implement a simliar policy. Other than your a fore mentioned cowardice?
The constitution?

Edit: Your misogyny is showing through again. It's interesting that you only mention women committing these immoral acts, but not men. Maybe there's a critical mass of teenage pregnancies via in-vitro fertilizatio?
 

MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
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Forgive him actuarial, he still doesnt understand the difference between pregnancy and birth, which is why in his world only the woman is responsible for a child being born.
 

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