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Tax hike on tobacco takes hold

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Biggest U.S. tax hike on tobacco takes effect

Smokers are gasping at higher cigarette and cigar prices as the largest federal tobacco tax increase in history takes effect.

"Oh my gosh," Bernardo Torres said Tuesday when a clerk at a CVS Pharmacy in Falls Church, Va., told him the new price, which went up in anticipation of the tax increase. Torres wanted to buy his aunt two cartons of cigarette-size cigars, but he walked away empty-handed after hearing the new price: $134. The tax on little cigars went from 4 cents to $1.01 a pack.

Looks like I'm going to quit. Not because I want to but because of principle and economic reasons. I guess its ok to tax tax trax until its unaffordable. I know many of you will say "Good its better for your health" but IMO, its not so much about health as it is about government over taxation.
 
Originally posted by: Jack Flash
They're financing healthcare for children with the money raised by the tax hike. Good or bad?

They won't get that money from me. I won't play the part of Peter in this Paul game.
 
Originally posted by: Jack Flash
They're financing healthcare for children with the money raised by the tax hike. Good or bad?

Bad, because wtf does childrens health care have to do with smokers? And what happens when smokers stop smoking? Childrens health care depends on a habit that is going the way of the dino's?
 
"I can make a firm pledge," Obama said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."

http://www.breitbart.com/artic...79POSG0&show_article=1
 
Although I did argue against the extra taxes being thrown about, this particular one doesn't bother me at all. I think there should be a sliding scale of taxation on these so that by the end of next year a carton costs $500. I am petrified that one day my daughter will do something stupid like start smoking. Teens are blissfully retarded much of the time and if a pack costs her $50, she'll be less likely to start. The numbers are quite convincing that increased costs do have a reverse correlation effect on teen smoking. The adults I'm less concerned about, but impressionable kids are a worry.
 
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: Jack Flash
They're financing healthcare for children with the money raised by the tax hike. Good or bad?

They won't get that money from me. I won't play the part of Peter in this Paul game.
Then if you really stop smoking because of this, you can look back a few years from now and say thank God for government, because if it's truly going to get you to quit, it's helping you see the light that you haven't seen yourself. Seriously.

 
Originally posted by: Jack Flash
They're financing healthcare for children with the money raised by the tax hike. Good or bad?

Lets follow this to its logical conclusion as outlined by the OP. How are you going to finance health care for children if everyone quits smoking? On top of that, this is a regressive tax to the core, why do you want the poor to finance health care for children? Personally I love this idea, I don't think the poor pay their fair share anyway and I applaud this legislation--it shows the poor what the Democrats really think of them. Obama is sending the UAW the same message. Heckuva job Obamie!
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Although I did argue against the extra taxes being thrown about, this particular one doesn't bother me at all. I think there should be a sliding scale of taxation on these so that by the end of next year a carton costs $500. I am petrified that one day my daughter will do something stupid like start smoking. Teens are blissfully retarded much of the time and if a pack costs her $50, she'll be less likely to start. The numbers are quite convincing that increased costs do have a reverse correlation effect on teen smoking. The adults I'm less concerned about, but impressionable kids are a worry.

Heh so because one day your daughter may pick up a nasty habit you are willing to oppress your fellow citizen via high taxes in an attempt to make them stop? Why not just go the drug route and outlaw them?
 
Originally posted by: newnameman
"I can make a firm pledge," Obama said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."

http://www.breitbart.com/artic...79POSG0&show_article=1

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
All this takes is a degree of logical processing that people are content to ignore if it gives them an opportunity to be outraged about something (because, let's face it, we all like to be outraged). Let's look at what specifically you said. "People under 250k." Right off the bat, we're making the distinction that this is about how much people earn. The money that people earn is known as income. So I think we can all agree that when Obama said people making under 250k would not pay additional taxes, he was dividing up groups based on income, correct?

Now, logically, since we've already established that he is dividing these groups based on income, you should carry that with you through the remainder of what he says. Groups in this income bracket will not pay higher taxes. That, to me, doesn't suggest that people who make under 250k will be spared from all taxation that they could possibly see between federal, state, county, municipal and city level taxation. That would be a ludicrous claim for any politician to make and any citizen that believed such a claim probably shouldn't be allowed to vote. Obama's statement, to me, suggests that people in a certain income bracket will not see increased taxation in terms of taxes that apply to income brackets; income tax. That's not a difficult leap of logic to make; in fact, it's the only leap of logic that could be considered rational considering how many politicians have discussed this exact same issue in every single election in the past 30 years.

We've been through this.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: Jack Flash
They're financing healthcare for children with the money raised by the tax hike. Good or bad?

They won't get that money from me. I won't play the part of Peter in this Paul game.
Then if you really stop smoking because of this, you can look back a few years from now and say thank God for government, because if it's truly going to get you to quit, it's helping you see the light that you haven't seen yourself. Seriously.

I will never thank Government for taxing me.
 
Next is beer and alcohol. Then it will be fatty foods like hamburgers and pizza. After a while someone will decide that the internet is bad for your health, a proposition that can easily be reasoned since sitting on your ass and typing/clicking a mouse does nothing to promote your health, so they raise taxes sky high on internet usage.

After all, it's for your own good, people, and clearly the government should be able to tax the crap out of something legal to force you to do what they believe is in your best interests.
 
Originally posted by: Corn
Originally posted by: Jack Flash
They're financing healthcare for children with the money raised by the tax hike. Good or bad?

Lets follow this to its logical conclusion as outlined by the OP. How are you going to finance health care for children if everyone quits smoking?

If everyone quits smoking, health care costs go down across the board as we will no longer have to subsidize smoking-related illness.
 
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Next is beer and alcohol. Then it will be fatty foods like hamburgers and pizza. After a while someone will decide that the internet is bad for your health, a proposition that can easily be reasoned since sitting on your ass and typing/clicking a mouse does nothing to promote your health, so they raise taxes sky high on internet usage.

After all, it's for your own good, people, and clearly the government should be able to tax the crap out of something legal to force you to do what they believe is in your best interests.

Let's slippery slope the other way.

Government lowers taxes on tobacco and alcohol to almost nothing. Supply is through the roof. Kids as young as 10 start smoking and drinking developing emphysema and cerosis of the liver before their twenties. Society is in ruins. But, at least it was in the interest of personal freedoms.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Although I did argue against the extra taxes being thrown about, this particular one doesn't bother me at all. I think there should be a sliding scale of taxation on these so that by the end of next year a carton costs $500. I am petrified that one day my daughter will do something stupid like start smoking. Teens are blissfully retarded much of the time and if a pack costs her $50, she'll be less likely to start. The numbers are quite convincing that increased costs do have a reverse correlation effect on teen smoking. The adults I'm less concerned about, but impressionable kids are a worry.

Heh so because one day your daughter may pick up a nasty habit you are willing to oppress your fellow citizen via high taxes in an attempt to make them stop? Why not just go the drug route and outlaw them?
There you go. $500 would effectively outlaw them 🙂

Society has a lot of bad influences, fomented by people weak of will and poor guidance. I would like to protect her as much as possible from it.

I also think, though, from a selfless perspective that whatever society can do to prevent people from using cancer sticks, it ought to do. Only the most insane few will not later thank it for its actions. Smoking is continued through continual weakness, and most smokers realize they lack the strength to stop, so if society can come in and do it for them, what the heck, they should be glad for it.
 
Originally posted by: sactoking
Originally posted by: Corn
Originally posted by: Jack Flash
They're financing healthcare for children with the money raised by the tax hike. Good or bad?

Lets follow this to its logical conclusion as outlined by the OP. How are you going to finance health care for children if everyone quits smoking?

If everyone quits smoking, health care costs go down across the board as we will no longer have to subsidize smoking-related illness.

No, you said this was going to finance health care for children, not for smoking related illness.
 
Originally posted by: sactoking
Originally posted by: Corn
Originally posted by: Jack Flash
They're financing healthcare for children with the money raised by the tax hike. Good or bad?

Lets follow this to its logical conclusion as outlined by the OP. How are you going to finance health care for children if everyone quits smoking?

If everyone quits smoking, health care costs go down across the board as we will no longer have to subsidize smoking-related illness.

Do you really believe this when the majority of our costs are at the end of our lives? Everybody dies and we all spend a shit load of money living an extra few weeks or months.

Besides hasnt it already been proven smokers die early and thus dont incur the same medical costs as somebody living to 80-90?
 
My aunt is in the hospital. The doctors think she has stage 4 lung cancer. I say, 'F' it; tax cigs to the max to the point of banning it. If you want to smoke, sorry, tough shiet. If you need to smoke (drug dependency), government should give you patches instead.
 
Originally posted by: Jack Flash
Originally posted by: newnameman
"I can make a firm pledge," Obama said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."

http://www.breitbart.com/artic...79POSG0&show_article=1

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
All this takes is a degree of logical processing that people are content to ignore if it gives them an opportunity to be outraged about something (because, let's face it, we all like to be outraged). Let's look at what specifically you said. "People under 250k." Right off the bat, we're making the distinction that this is about how much people earn. The money that people earn is known as income. So I think we can all agree that when Obama said people making under 250k would not pay additional taxes, he was dividing up groups based on income, correct?

Now, logically, since we've already established that he is dividing these groups based on income, you should carry that with you through the remainder of what he says. Groups in this income bracket will not pay higher taxes. That, to me, doesn't suggest that people who make under 250k will be spared from all taxation that they could possibly see between federal, state, county, municipal and city level taxation. That would be a ludicrous claim for any politician to make and any citizen that believed such a claim probably shouldn't be allowed to vote. Obama's statement, to me, suggests that people in a certain income bracket will not see increased taxation in terms of taxes that apply to income brackets; income tax. That's not a difficult leap of logic to make; in fact, it's the only leap of logic that could be considered rational considering how many politicians have discussed this exact same issue in every single election in the past 30 years.

We've been through this.

So you think that "Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes," only refers to income tax? Really? Was Obama just joking when he said "not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes"?
 
Originally posted by: Jack Flash
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Next is beer and alcohol. Then it will be fatty foods like hamburgers and pizza. After a while someone will decide that the internet is bad for your health, a proposition that can easily be reasoned since sitting on your ass and typing/clicking a mouse does nothing to promote your health, so they raise taxes sky high on internet usage.

After all, it's for your own good, people, and clearly the government should be able to tax the crap out of something legal to force you to do what they believe is in your best interests.

Let's slippery slope the other way.

Government lowers taxes on tobacco and alcohol to almost nothing. Supply is through the roof. Kids as young as 10 start smoking and drinking developing emphysema and cerosis of the liver before their twenties. Society is in ruins. But, at least it was in the interest of personal freedoms.

This would require a complete breakdown of societal norms.
 
Originally posted by: Jack Flash
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Next is beer and alcohol. Then it will be fatty foods like hamburgers and pizza. After a while someone will decide that the internet is bad for your health, a proposition that can easily be reasoned since sitting on your ass and typing/clicking a mouse does nothing to promote your health, so they raise taxes sky high on internet usage.

After all, it's for your own good, people, and clearly the government should be able to tax the crap out of something legal to force you to do what they believe is in your best interests.

Let's slippery slope the other way.

Government lowers taxes on tobacco and alcohol to almost nothing. Supply is through the roof. Kids as young as 10 start smoking and drinking developing emphysema and cerosis of the liver before their twenties. Society is in ruins. But, at least it was in the interest of personal freedoms.

This is happening with beer/liquor? I mean, go to any party store, looks like there is plenty of "supply" for alcohol. Where's all the kiddies with "cerosis"?
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Although I did argue against the extra taxes being thrown about, this particular one doesn't bother me at all. I think there should be a sliding scale of taxation on these so that by the end of next year a carton costs $500. I am petrified that one day my daughter will do something stupid like start smoking. Teens are blissfully retarded much of the time and if a pack costs her $50, she'll be less likely to start. The numbers are quite convincing that increased costs do have a reverse correlation effect on teen smoking. The adults I'm less concerned about, but impressionable kids are a worry.

Heh so because one day your daughter may pick up a nasty habit you are willing to oppress your fellow citizen via high taxes in an attempt to make them stop? Why not just go the drug route and outlaw them?
There you go. $500 would effectively outlaw them 🙂

Society has a lot of bad influences, fomented by people weak of will and poor guidance. I would like to protect her as much as possible from it.

I also think, though, from a selfless perspective that whatever society can do to prevent people from using cancer sticks, it ought to do. Only the most insane few will not later thank it for its actions. Smoking is continued through continual weakness, and most smokers realize they lack the strength to stop, so if society can come in and do it for them, what the heck, they should be glad for it.


If your daughter wants to smoke she will no matter how much you oppress a segment of society. For all the taxation you levy on people smoking a legal substance chances are high she will try an illegal substance before the dreaded cigarette anyways. That wonderful drug war we wage using the same logic has made the school system a haven for drug transactions.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Jack Flash
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Next is beer and alcohol. Then it will be fatty foods like hamburgers and pizza. After a while someone will decide that the internet is bad for your health, a proposition that can easily be reasoned since sitting on your ass and typing/clicking a mouse does nothing to promote your health, so they raise taxes sky high on internet usage.

After all, it's for your own good, people, and clearly the government should be able to tax the crap out of something legal to force you to do what they believe is in your best interests.

Let's slippery slope the other way.

Government lowers taxes on tobacco and alcohol to almost nothing. Supply is through the roof. Kids as young as 10 start smoking and drinking developing emphysema and cerosis of the liver before their twenties. Society is in ruins. But, at least it was in the interest of personal freedoms.

This would require a complete breakdown of societal norms.

Just like your proposition. Point being both what you presented and what I presented are ridiculous, though mine was in jest.
 
Originally posted by: Corn
Originally posted by: Jack Flash
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Next is beer and alcohol. Then it will be fatty foods like hamburgers and pizza. After a while someone will decide that the internet is bad for your health, a proposition that can easily be reasoned since sitting on your ass and typing/clicking a mouse does nothing to promote your health, so they raise taxes sky high on internet usage.

After all, it's for your own good, people, and clearly the government should be able to tax the crap out of something legal to force you to do what they believe is in your best interests.

Let's slippery slope the other way.

Government lowers taxes on tobacco and alcohol to almost nothing. Supply is through the roof. Kids as young as 10 start smoking and drinking developing emphysema and cerosis of the liver before their twenties. Society is in ruins. But, at least it was in the interest of personal freedoms.

This is happening with beer/liquor? I mean, go to any party store, looks like there is plenty of "supply" for alcohol. Where's all the kiddies with "cerosis"?

I think you missed the point.
 
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