• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Talk to me about this stimulus bill

Page 7 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Nov 8, 2012
14,684
2,235
126
So give corporations bailouts because they spent all their money on stock buybacks. But make furloughed people whole?!?! Fuck that! That's craziness!

If that doesn't show the goals of the GOP, nothing can.
Repeat after me: Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts.

Comprende? Understand?


I hate having to spell this out to massive morons online - but let's just take the base of all this. Everyone is like "OMG $2 TRILLION FOR COMPANIES!"

Number 1: Unemployment will be massive. It will be incredibly massive if multiple companies (bars, restaurants, small businesses, etc.) fall under because of this
Number 2: Inflation will ramp the fuck up and the dollar will be far less than it was before. On top of that - it will be worth even less if our economy doesn't recover. To the point of hyper-inflation. Venezuela ring a bell?
Number 3: The most important point I will TRY my best to drive home to the massive amount of economic morons here is this:

Math: $2 Trillion = $2,000,000,000,000 divided by our US population (327 Million) = ~$6,100. So if we DONT redistribute that to companies - and instead "to the people" - we would get a whopping total of $6,100. That is the total - not in addition to the potential $1,200 check.

How long will that last people here? How about your average American? The answer is somewhere between 1 - 4 months depending on your cost of living, bills, and personal situations. Does that sound like long term sustainability? Or does that sound like a complete disaster that will get us nowhere?
 

zzyzxroad

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2017
1,231
568
106
UI is not based on "involuntarily" losing your job necessarily. Majority that are fired get unemployment. For something like retail, that's as simple as not showing up for a shift or 2.

Yes, I understand that if you openly quit a job then you wouldn't receive it.
Are you sure that if you are fired for not showing up you will qualify?

I'm almost sure that is in incorrect but would have to double check.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
99,572
2,423
126
QUOTE="s0me0nesmind1, post: 40110933, member: 317397"]
Loans are not bailouts.
[/QUOTE]
the bailout was chrysler in 1979. that was a loan. so, you're wrong.
 

zzyzxroad

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2017
1,231
568
106
Repeat after me: Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts.

Comprende? Understand?


I hate having to spell this out to massive morons online - but let's just take the base of all this. Everyone is like "OMG $2 TRILLION FOR COMPANIES!"

Number 1: Unemployment will be massive. It will be incredibly massive if multiple companies (bars, restaurants, small businesses, etc.) fall under because of this
Number 2: Inflation will ramp the fuck up and the dollar will be far less than it was before. On top of that - it will be worth even less if our economy doesn't recover. To the point of hyper-inflation. Venezuela ring a bell?
Number 3: The most important point I will TRY my best to drive home to the massive amount of economic morons here is this:

Math: $2 Trillion = $2,000,000,000,000 divided by our US population (327 Million) = ~$6,100. So if we DONT redistribute that to companies - and instead "to the people" - we would get a whopping total of $6,100. That is the total - not in addition to the potential $1,200 check.

How long will that last people here? How about your average American? The answer is somewhere between 1 - 4 months depending on your cost of living, bills, and personal situations. Does that sound like long term sustainability? Or does that sound like a complete disaster that will get us nowhere?
Why use the total population number and not the number that will be unemployed?
 
Nov 8, 2012
14,684
2,235
126
Why use the total population number and not the number that will be unemployed?
Unemployment isn't an easy number to gauge ahead of time - and like I said, the unemployment is heavily dependent upon helping these companies and small businesses out. Everyone is already shitting bricks of seeing how many people filed for unemployment at the end of the week.

The point is you will create a domino effect if you don't address the root problem. The root problem is employment. Period, end of story.

You can give everyone cash all day long, if you don't have employment you will have hyper-inflation (where the money is literally worth nothing), and no one has anything sustainable.
 

zzyzxroad

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2017
1,231
568
106
Unemployment isn't an easy number to gauge ahead of time - and like I said, the unemployment is heavily dependent upon helping these companies and small businesses out. Everyone is already shitting bricks of seeing how many people filed for unemployment at the end of the week.

The point is you will create a domino effect if you don't address the root problem. The root problem is employment. Period, end of story.

You can give everyone cash all day long, if you don't have employment you will have hyper-inflation (where the money is literally worth nothing), and no one has anything sustainable.
Thanks and I was arguing against your point just trying to follow the logic. The total population didn't make sense as part of the discussion.
 
Nov 8, 2012
14,684
2,235
126
Thanks and I was arguing against your point just trying to follow the logic. The total population didn't make sense as part of the discussion.
I'm using the total population because part of the bill is aimed at giving every American a $1,200 check. That's a part of the $2 Trillion stimulus. My point was even if you gave the entire $2 trillion to every American (instead of just the 1,200) it still doesn't address the problem.

Regardless of giving it to only the unemployed or not - doesn't address the fact that the unemployed aren't job creators. They just aren't. They aren't entrepreneurs. They aren't going to magically overnight create jobs all over the US where all the unemployment is.
 

zzyzxroad

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2017
1,231
568
106
I'm using the total population because part of the bill is aimed at giving every American a $1,200 check. That's a part of the $2 Trillion stimulus. My point was even if you gave the entire $2 trillion to every American (instead of just the 1,200) it still doesn't address the problem.

Regardless of giving it to only the unemployed or not - doesn't address the fact that the unemployed aren't job creators. They just aren't. They aren't entrepreneurs. They aren't going to magically overnight create jobs all over the US where all the unemployment is.
I though the 1200 per person was a trump idea. Handing out cash to everyone is stupid.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
13,662
1,771
126
Repeat after me: Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts.

Comprende? Understand?


I hate having to spell this out to massive morons online - but let's just take the base of all this. Everyone is like "OMG $2 TRILLION FOR COMPANIES!"

Number 1: Unemployment will be massive. It will be incredibly massive if multiple companies (bars, restaurants, small businesses, etc.) fall under because of this
Number 2: Inflation will ramp the fuck up and the dollar will be far less than it was before. On top of that - it will be worth even less if our economy doesn't recover. To the point of hyper-inflation. Venezuela ring a bell?
Number 3: The most important point I will TRY my best to drive home to the massive amount of economic morons here is this:

Math: $2 Trillion = $2,000,000,000,000 divided by our US population (327 Million) = ~$6,100. So if we DONT redistribute that to companies - and instead "to the people" - we would get a whopping total of $6,100. That is the total - not in addition to the potential $1,200 check.

How long will that last people here? How about your average American? The answer is somewhere between 1 - 4 months depending on your cost of living, bills, and personal situations. Does that sound like long term sustainability? Or does that sound like a complete disaster that will get us nowhere?
I absolutely don't remember you wringing your hands this much over last years trillion and a half tax scam. All that money has floated off into the ether, and we're in the same position today that we'd be in if republicans never passed it. And that would pay for an extra $4500 on top of the twelve hundred for every person today. Please tell me you're not elitist enough to think another $18k for a family of four would make a massive difference to a ton of people, and would stimulate the fuck out of the economy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthKyrie

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,593
307
126
An extended unemployment insurance program for laid-off workers that will allow for four months of "full pay," according to Schumer, rather than the usual three months for most. It will also raise the maximum unemployment insurance benefit by $600 per week. It will apply to traditional workers for small and large businesses as well as those who are self-employed and workers in the gig economy. This was a key Democratic initiative, which Schumer dubbed "unemployment insurance on steroids." (The group of Senate Republicans then opposed this provision later Wednesday, saying it provides a disincentive for people to go back to work once the crisis subsides. "We cannot encourage people to make more money in unemployment than we do in employment," South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott told reporters.)
So they we're being incredibly obtuse. Low to modest income people would make the *same* in unemployment as in employment. Temporarily.
 

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,593
307
126
Repeat after me: Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts.
A loan you otherwise would be unable to obtain is still basically a bailout. Especially under such extremely favorable terms.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthKyrie

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
12,436
1,873
126
A loan you otherwise would be unable to obtain is still basically a bailout. Especially under such extremely favorable terms.
Do these loans have interest? If not I would call this a bailout. A interest free loan is basically free money, just not as much money as the loan is for.
Give me 10 million in a 5 years interest free loan and I promise I'll never have to work again.
 
Feb 4, 2009
24,422
5,321
136
Repeat after me: Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts. Loans are not bailouts.

Comprende? Understand?


I hate having to spell this out to massive morons online - but let's just take the base of all this. Everyone is like "OMG $2 TRILLION FOR COMPANIES!"
How do I get a couple million loan from the Government? Maybe I won't declare and maybe I'll pay it back.......or maybe I won't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthKyrie

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
57,948
10,331
126
Most people can figure out where and how to spend money, it's not as if Amazon is shut down.
So dishonest. When people stay home their expenditures go down. Can't take that high country summer vacation, hire that contractor, eat out, attend events like games & concerts, get a haircut, go to the dentist for a checkup, take the dog to the vet for its shots & a lot of ways people spend money. They even buy a lot less gas because they're not commuting. Amazon won't make up for that.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
57,948
10,331
126
Most people can figure out where and how to spend money, it's not as if Amazon is shut down.
So dishonest. When people stay home their expenditures go down. Can't take that high country summer vacation, hire that contractor, eat out, attend events like games & concerts, get a haircut, go to the dentist for a checkup, take the dog to the vet for its shots & a lot of ways people spend money. They even buy a lot less gas because they're not commuting. Amazon won't make up for that.
 

CaptainGoodnight

Golden Member
Oct 13, 2000
1,408
15
81
So dishonest. When people stay home their expenditures go down. Can't take that high country summer vacation, hire that contractor, eat out, attend events like games & concerts, get a haircut, go to the dentist for a checkup, take the dog to the vet for its shots & a lot of ways people spend money. They even buy a lot less gas because they're not commuting. Amazon won't make up for that.
So, the liberal argument for all these social programs is because the average American is one paycheck away from bankruptcy. But you're saying that's not true is because they are reckless with their money. How conservative of you.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
57,948
10,331
126
So, the liberal argument for all these social programs is because the average American is one paycheck away from bankruptcy. But you're saying that's not true is because they are reckless with their money. How conservative of you.
No. The argument is that people need to meet their obligations when they're told to stay home to fight this pandemic. Just bailing out the sacred Jerb Creators won't do that. And if you really want to talk about irresponsible you'd want to talk about the irresponsible GOP tax cuts & lax oversight that fueled a massive corporate credit bubble that's popping right before our eyes. Or should the responsible people be forced to liquidate their assets at firesale prices to stay afloat?
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthKyrie

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,593
307
126
Do these loans have interest? If not I would call this a bailout. A interest free loan is basically free money, just not as much money as the loan is for.
Give me 10 million in a 5 years interest free loan and I promise I'll never have to work again.
They have interest but it's set by the Secretary of the Treasury to a reasonable amount equivalent to typical Treasury yields for term.

Code:
Any loans made by the Sec-
20 retary under this section shall be at a rate de-
21 termined by the Secretary based on the risk 
22 and the current average yield on outstanding 
23 marketable obligations of the United States of 
24 comparable maturity.
 
Last edited:

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
12,167
1,947
126
Oh here's is the right thread. Senate just passed the Coronavirus Economic Stimulus Bill 96-0. On to the HOR reconciliation, hopefully their desirer's were addressed enough that it will pass soon. This is really just the finger in the dike. More to come.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY