Talk me out of getting an Oculus Rift from Best Buy.

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Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
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is the Rift good enough though? I heard it can play SteamVR games. I don't have a lot of space in my computer room so the Vive may have to wait until I buy a bigger house or move my PC to the basement.

Fuck this thread, i just ordered a Rift :mad:

I'll tell the woman that it's really cool reading glasses. LOL.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,367
891
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is the Rift good enough though? I heard it can play SteamVR games. I don't have a lot of space in my computer room so the Vive may have to wait until I buy a bigger house or move my PC to the basement.

Fuck this thread, i just ordered a Rift :mad:

I'll tell the woman that it's really cool reading glasses. LOL.
Not all Vive games require you to have a big play area. There are three types of play: seated, standing and roomscale. Some of the fun mini-games like Valve's The Lab: Longbow only require you to be standing in one spot.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,832
3,862
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My personal opinion: spring for a Vive. 4 reasons:

1. Touch Controllers (think really accurate Wii controllers)
2. Roomscale (stand and walk around your room)
3. Steam integration (including a VR GUI for launching games)
4. Backwards compatibility with Oculus games (through Revive Injector, especially since Oculus removed the headset check from their DRM)

$200 extra over a Rift for a LOT of extra features. I am really glad I canceled my Oculus pre-order & went with HTC!
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,226
588
126
Not all Vive games require you to have a big play area. There are three types of play: seated, standing and roomscale. Some of the fun mini-games like Valve's The Lab: Longbow only require you to be standing in one spot.
Yeah I know but having that option would haunt me if I wanted to play a room scale game. Lol.

I could see myself cutting a wall down to expand my computer room into my sun porch just to play room scale games which look really cool.

I was blown away when I fired up Elite Dangerous in VR. The fact that I was inside of my ship inside a space station blew my mind.

My only complaint is things seem to be sorta blurry depending on which part of the image your eyes are focusing on. I would say it's more or less grainy looking. Is the Vive image quality better than the Rift because I'll return this right to Amazon asap.
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,226
588
126
My personal opinion: spring for a Vive. 4 reasons:

1. Touch Controllers (think really accurate Wii controllers)
2. Roomscale (stand and walk around your room)
3. Steam integration (including a VR GUI for launching games)
4. Backwards compatibility with Oculus games (through Revive Injector, especially since Oculus removed the headset check from their DRM)

$200 extra over a Rift for a LOT of extra features. I am really glad I canceled my Oculus pre-order & went with HTC!
Kaido how's the image quality? Have you ever posted a review of the Vive?
 

xantub

Senior member
Feb 12, 2014
717
1
46
If I had to pick one I'd pick a Rift. It's $200 less and I couldn't care less about room-experiences. I want it to play games seated.
Having said that, I cancelled my preorder just a week before it was supposed to be shipped. My heart kept saying BUY IT BUY IT, but my brain kept saying WAIT WAIT! Eventually with all the delays my mind won, so I decided to wait for the Rift 2. Not only will it be a better device, and perhaps cheaper, but also the video card I would have had to buy to use it, will now be better/cheaper (cheaper GTX970 or better GTX1070). Glad I waited.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Yeah I know but having that option would haunt me if I wanted to play a room scale game. Lol.

I could see myself cutting a wall down to expand my computer room into my sun porch just to play room scale games which look really cool.

I was blown away when I fired up Elite Dangerous in VR. The fact that I was inside of my ship inside a space station blew my mind.

My only complaint is things seem to be sorta blurry depending on which part of the image your eyes are focusing on. I would say it's more or less grainy looking. Is the Vive image quality better than the Rift because I'll return this right to Amazon asap.
Overall the Rift image quality is better, but there is one BIG flaw IMO. That is godrays. They are soooo distracting that I prever the Vive, even if not for motion controls. Also, don't undervalue room scale. It is freaking amazing.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,832
3,862
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Kaido how's the image quality? Have you ever posted a review of the Vive?
I have not tried an Oculus Rift, so I cannot compare. This is my history with virtual reality:

1. Started out with a Google Cardboard, using my iPhone 5S & a Viewmaster. It looked like crap (thanks to the older 5S screen - would have looked better with a 6S), but it got me interested in VR.

2. Interested enough that I bought a GearVR & Note 5 (used my phone upgrade to buy the Samsung, specifically to use for VR & not as a phone). Have really really enjoyed it. I bought a wireless gamepad to go with it & spent many hours exploring stuff in VR.

3. Pre-ordered both the Oculus & Vive with the intention of flipping whichever one I didn't like for a profit. Oddly, my Rift got pushed out to the end of June & yet was being sold on Amazon & at Best Buy, which was annoying from a customer service POV, especially since I had pre-ordered back in like January. But aside from that, the reviews coming in for the Vive with features like Touch Controllers, RoomScale, etc., sounded amazing, so I cancelled my Rift. The Vive has been absolutely fantastic!

I've read from people who have used both, that the Oculus has better PQ than the Vive, which is basically the one area where it trumps it. Keep in mind, we are early adopters & these are first-gen PC-based VR systems. The screens have pixelization (especially when reading text) & other issues, stuff that will be resolved in gen2, gen3, etc. I'd imagine we'll see 4K screens next & eventually the holy grail, which is 8K screens. Right now, you are getting first-generation hardware with slightly buggy software & a high price of entry - you need an $800 Vive (~$880 with tax & shipping), a $1k PC (minimum), and a bunch of short, expensive VR games. It's definitely not for everyone right now.

With that said, I am really enjoying my setup. I originally purchased it because of my interest in VR, which is the first computer-related thing to get me excited about tech in many years (smartwatches? meh. the latest smartphone? meh. 4K Xbox? meh.). However, that has shifted to a primary focus on using VR for exercise, especially through music-based programs like AudioShield & HoloPoint, as well as with my VirZoom VR exercise bike.

So going back to image quality...from what I understand, they're close, with the Rift being slightly superior, except for the godray issue. But...Roomscale, Touch Controllers, Steam integration, etc. make the Vive more compelling, to me at least.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,832
3,862
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If I had to pick one I'd pick a Rift. It's $200 less and I couldn't care less about room-experiences. I want it to play games seated.
Having said that, I cancelled my preorder just a week before it was supposed to be shipped. My heart kept saying BUY IT BUY IT, but my brain kept saying WAIT WAIT! Eventually with all the delays my mind won, so I decided to wait for the Rift 2. Not only will it be a better device, and perhaps cheaper, but also the video card I would have had to buy to use it, will now be better/cheaper (cheaper GTX970 or better GTX1070). Glad I waited.
Also, don't undervalue room scale. It is freaking amazing.
Having both a GearVR with a gamepad & a Vive setup with motion controls & roomscale...@xantub, you have to try it to understand it. Being able to move around the room is HUGE for so many games.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,367
891
126
My only complaint is things seem to be sorta blurry depending on which part of the image your eyes are focusing on. I would say it's more or less grainy looking. Is the Vive image quality better than the Rift because I'll return this right to Amazon asap.
I do think the Vive has the same problem, and I've commented on it a bit in the VR thread. The issue is mostly noticeable when you're trying to read text. Typically, our eyes tend to scan over the text while our head remains stationary (given it's all within our field of view), but when your eyes get closer to the periphery of the Vive's lens, things start to get a bit more blurry. This makes the text that much harder to read.

Now, to note, these are my experiences using the Vive with glasses. I don't know how much different it is for people without them. I am rather tempted to pick up some VR lenses as I've never found the Vive to be that comfortable with my glasses on. I could probably also just wear contacts, but I've always hated putting contacts in. :p
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,226
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Well my Vive arrives today so I'll see who's the winner. I won't be able to do room scale (7x9 very tight space) until I get my sun porch cleared out so won't be able to try that until the weekend.

Do any games still come with the Vive or is everything just downloaded via the Steam app?
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
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Do any games still come with the Vive or is everything just downloaded via the Steam app?
I don't think they ever actually physically included any games with it. For us early guys they just emailed a key for the games to redeem on Steam.
 

Mutilator

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2000
3,516
10
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They are still doing the bundles but they just got updated last week on August 12th - new bundle = The Gallery, Tiltbrush, and Zombie Training Simulator.
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,226
588
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I'll be honest. I liked the demo stuff and generally the software that came with the Rift. I was a bit underwhelmed browsing the Steam store for content.

And yes, I admit it now that the valve controllers bring a completely different experience to VR. It's cool to reach out and touch something in VR.

But, and this is a biggie, the Vive was 4x harder to setup. The base station was easy to me but 5 power connections when the Rift required none???

Anyways I'll play both over the weekend and decide which is going back for refund
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,832
3,862
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I'll be honest. I liked the demo stuff and generally the software that came with the Rift. I was a bit underwhelmed browsing the Steam store for content.

And yes, I admit it now that the valve controllers bring a completely different experience to VR. It's cool to reach out and touch something in VR.

But, and this is a biggie, the Vive was 4x harder to setup. The base station was easy to me but 5 power connections when the Rift required none???

Anyways I'll play both over the weekend and decide which is going back for refund
I would like to travel with my Vive (like to friend's houses), but it's too much of a pain to transport...PC, HMD & cables, controllers & chargers, Lighthouses & power cables, etc. At some point, I plan on getting a VR-capable laptop, and if the price isn't insane, maybe I'll get some additional Lighthouses when they become available. On the flip side, you can use the Vive to play all of the Oculus games with Revive Injector & a gamepad controller, so that's nice because you get the best of both worlds.

The thing to keep in mind with the software is that everything is very new & first-gen. That means a couple things. For starters, developers are in a catch-22...there's not enough of an installed base to make a ton of money yet, but VR games (and games in general) require a lot of capital to develop...which means that even really basic games are expensive. I'm sure I'm well past $300 in VR game purchases already (which has pushed out my VR laptop purchase even further, boooo!), and after running through most of them a time or two, I haven't played too many again. Plus there's no real full-length AAA games out there for VR yet, especially since they're still figuring things out. And see, that's the second thing...development is still in motion. Are Wiimote-style controllers the best? What about Leap Motion's Orion setup? And what about locomotion? A lot of games, like Battle Dome & Raw Data, are getting around the sim-sickness issue by using teleportation. In Battle Dome, that works just fine for games like paintball where they integration the teleportation aspect into the gameplay, but boy would I like to move around in Raw Data rather than erratically jumping all over the place. Virtuix makes an omni treadmill for that, but then you're a bit more limited in doing stuff like ducking because you're standing into of a hoop, strapped into a seatbelt, which isn't as fluid as playing in Roomscale with the Vive where it can track your motion as you dance around all over the place.

I mean, there are all kinds of issues right now. I would LOVE to have a second Vive setup to play against family & friends locally, but aside from the cost (another $2k for a dual-player setup? yeah, okay...), I simply don't have the room because my house isn't big enough lol. On the flip side, I think VR is amazing & love trying out all the new titles that come out & have a blast using it for cardio in the morning. My "Augmented Exercise" setup right now consists of a Vive, Subpac (subwoofer backpack) & headphones, 3-pound ankle/wrist weights, and a Training Mask (facemask that reduces airflow, which forces you to think about your breathing while dancing around in VR). It's been quite an expensive investment (especially when compared with a far cheaper console-based gaming system), but I have a lot of fun with it. Let us know what your thoughts are after using both systems!
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,226
588
126
Thanks kaido for all of your insight. I will update this thread and the VR thread since I just found it.
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,226
588
126
Overall the Rift image quality is better, but there is one BIG flaw IMO. That is godrays. They are soooo distracting that I prever the Vive, even if not for motion controls. Also, don't undervalue room scale. It is freaking amazing.
Yes I do admit that room scale looks to be amazing. I'll have this setup by the weekend. Sucks I have to drill into thick brick to mount my base stations :(

The godrays LOL, they are still there on the Vive it's just not towards the center of view like the Rift. The Vive seem to show them on the side, which honestly I kinda preferred them on the Rift. I don't like my edges smeared but I could get used to it, especially after finding a mod for it.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,832
3,862
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Yes I do admit that room scale looks to be amazing. I'll have this setup by the weekend. Sucks I have to drill into thick brick to mount my base stations :(

The godrays LOL, they are still there on the Vive it's just not towards the center of view like the Rift. The Vive seem to show them on the side, which honestly I kinda preferred them on the Rift. I don't like my edges smeared but I could get used to it, especially after finding a mod for it.
fwiw, I didn't bother permanently installing mine. I put one on a shelf and the other on a stack of Harry Potter hardbacks. Both are about 6" above my head & shoot straight out (not angled). Works great!

Yeah, if you're getting the rays on the Vive, make sure you're in the "sweet spot", which really reduces them. You know you're there when everything is in focus & you quit seeing the rings in the lenses.
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,828
35
91
I dunno why so many people hype the Vive. When I was trying it at a friends, there were constant stream of issues cropping up, even the latest Windows update caused it some issues which apparently is common as shown on reddit so we had to remove that. Some VR games like Dinosaurs demo from Crytek would not run in VR, the only option was theater mode? ..wtf? Adrift ran fine but the controls are really touchy and it's really not very fun to play. Solaris ran fine but the blur was so bad that a game like this just isn't good like that no matter how dead eye center you look at everything. Most everything else just didn't run in VR mode or would crop up some error or would run but was just not designed well enough to be actually fun to really play much of.

Then the VR Room suddenly went upside down and we could not fix it. We ran Vive setup 4 freaking times...things just kept getting worse it seemed. Mydream Swift woudn't run anything in VR mode whatsoever. (its' like Vorpx)
At some point, we suddenly had an issue where if you ran VR mode from Steam, CDF Starfighter would launch automatically.....and you cannot exit the game from the menu, there was no exit button that we could find so we had to turn off VR mode to exit it because exit game from VR menu wouldn't do anything.
Finally we had to give up after dickering around with it for an entire day and the WU automatically thing did not help cause for some reason that update really messes it up.

AND IT'S NOT $800!! It's actually $899.82 less you can find it in store and save the shipping cost.

Way to blurry to bother. You have to dead eye center when looking around and even then everything is all jaggy and the crawling...omg the crawling is horrid. Screendoor effect isn't bad though but then again I noticed the former so much that the pixel density was the least of my visual worries.
I basically felt like I was playing a character that really, really needed some glasses.

As for Rift however, no clue but the software issues certainly coudln't be any worse.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,832
3,862
126
I dunno why so many people hype the Vive. When I was trying it at a friends, there were constant stream of issues cropping up.
That's really odd, might want to do a memory test on that machine or possibly even do a fresh format of Windows...my Vive has been pretty solid. I've had an occasional crash here & there, but overall I use it for upwards of an hour a day without any major issues.

I do agree that Adr1ft is kinda touchy with the VR controllers.
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,226
588
126
I dunno why so many people hype the Vive. When I was trying it at a friends, there were constant stream of issues cropping up, even the latest Windows update caused it some issues which apparently is common as shown on reddit so we had to remove that. Some VR games like Dinosaurs demo from Crytek would not run in VR, the only option was theater mode? ..wtf? Adrift ran fine but the controls are really touchy and it's really not very fun to play. Solaris ran fine but the blur was so bad that a game like this just isn't good like that no matter how dead eye center you look at everything. Most everything else just didn't run in VR mode or would crop up some error or would run but was just not designed well enough to be actually fun to really play much of.

Then the VR Room suddenly went upside down and we could not fix it. We ran Vive setup 4 freaking times...things just kept getting worse it seemed. Mydream Swift woudn't run anything in VR mode whatsoever. (its' like Vorpx)
At some point, we suddenly had an issue where if you ran VR mode from Steam, CDF Starfighter would launch automatically.....and you cannot exit the game from the menu, there was no exit button that we could find so we had to turn off VR mode to exit it because exit game from VR menu wouldn't do anything.
Finally we had to give up after dickering around with it for an entire day and the WU automatically thing did not help cause for some reason that update really messes it up.

AND IT'S NOT $800!! It's actually $899.82 less you can find it in store and save the shipping cost.

Way to blurry to bother. You have to dead eye center when looking around and even then everything is all jaggy and the crawling...omg the crawling is horrid. Screendoor effect isn't bad though but then again I noticed the former so much that the pixel density was the least of my visual worries.
I basically felt like I was playing a character that really, really needed some glasses.

As for Rift however, no clue but the software issues certainly coudln't be any worse.
Paid $860 for mine with tax and $5 express shipping from the Microsoft store
 

Mutilator

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2000
3,516
10
81
That's really odd, might want to do a memory test on that machine or possibly even do a fresh format of Windows...my Vive has been pretty solid. I've had an occasional crash here & there, but overall I use it for upwards of an hour a day without any major issues.

I do agree that Adr1ft is kinda touchy with the VR controllers.
Yeah, it's a shame his first impression was tarnished by a list of things done wrong or being wrong, most of which could have been avoided. I wouldn't introduce people to a Vive and not use Vive specific games. The off center blur you get use to and if it was really bad you probably just didn't have the HMD on correctly, probably had it sitting a little too low. The upside down issue I'm not sure about but I'd guess it was probably reflective surface related or possibly USB port related (looking at you ASMedia). None of these should have happened.

The way I look at it is we're all VR ambassadors and it's up to us to make sure every new VR user is given the best experience possible. I haven't had a single person come out of the headset without a huge grin on their face and talking about how awesome it is.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
But, and this is a biggie, the Vive was 4x harder to setup. The base station was easy to me but 5 power connections when the Rift required none???
Five? I guess if you're counting chargers for the controllers, but I just use existing USB chargers. By that regard you should take points off the Rift for requiring two USB ports...

I had the Vive up and running in under an hour and have had no issues aside from some base station communication in the early days.
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,828
35
91
That's really odd, might want to do a memory test on that machine or possibly even do a fresh format of Windows...my Vive has been pretty solid. I've had an occasional crash here & there, but overall I use it for upwards of an hour a day without any major issues.

I do agree that Adr1ft is kinda touchy with the VR controllers.
Already done. When I said we did everything, I mean it. I've been here long enough that everyone should know that long time members of most any tech forum are very likely computer geeks. You would also know that when it comes to computer issues, it can always be different for everyone but there are plenty of threads about the subject anywhere online that show it's not a fluke and if the latest WU did not cause yours any jitters or screen issues then congrats on the luck of the draw as it seems to be common.
It's not like we didn't google the hell out trying to solve different ones as they arose.

But some VR games run great but they also look like total crap. Jaggies, crawling and holy hell that blur is aweful. I don't care how dead center your supposed to look at everything, that's just a sorry excuse to ignore the fact that this isn't quite a consumer ready product and the vive experience even when working is not all that great nor is it really just $800 as everyone proclaims for comparisons as I found out when I saw his reciept. When I pre-ordered the Rift it was like $599 I think shipped....but I canceled because I wanted to wait for StarVR and see if they can improve upon the vive/rift problems.

Look the point is that if these are the types of first experiences anyone out there has, it's a shot in the back to the platform no matter what anyone says. Frankly I think some of you are biased enough that you overlook the issues and seriously the games are not exactly pretty to look at. Just comming from a 55" 1080p TV myself and I thought the games looked atrocious, like I was playing the PS3 basically. So no amount of excuses would draw me to a Vive nor a Rift at this point.
The software issues we had probably can or will be fixed but so what? Fck that noise, we wasted some 8+ hrs on that thing.
 

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