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Taking my Homeowner's Association to task
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imported_mitch2891
Member
How can you people put up with this HOA crap?
I say go with the pipe bomb option, it is what they deserve!
I say go with the pipe bomb option, it is what they deserve!
If the developer is still on site and controls in excess of 50% of the property (think unsold units) then the developer controls enough votes to basically do anything, provided they follow the requirements laid out in the HOA bylaws you were given regarding notice and rules (but they can even change those).
Developers often screw up though in believing that because they control enough votes they can do whatever they want without following the process. In general if your bylaws don't state percentages required for votes it's a simple majority, in addition if there isn't a process for switching the board or members than you have legal challenge.
Basically the point I want to make is you need to be carefull if the developer still controls more than 50% of the parcels of the final development as it gives them complete control. Also consider that these a$$holes could be related to the developer (not uncommon at all). You already know that if they don't follow the process laid out in the CCR's exactly then they can't enforce it's provisions. I'd recommend you hold a meeting of all the members of the HOA excluding the current "board" and discuss this if combined you have more than 50% of the votes. You could then dissolve the current board and form a new one that doesn't include the current barbaric idiots. It wouldn't be hard to convince your neighbors that the racist a$$holes are probably misapproriating the HOA dues.
The developer is not still on site. He still owns 2-3 parcels of land if that, but certainly not enough to control even 10% of the parcels of land. They aren't related either. The bylaws don't state a process for amendments, PERIOD, so my understanding is that they wouldn't be able to amend the Covenant without 100% agreement, because it would require everyone to agree, and then a new Covenant to be filed. Otherwise, it would be a situation of subjecting individuals to ex-post-facto legislation in a way(not really but along the same lines). Basically, if there is no process to amend, they can't go and just "make" it illegal to rent, because that would be reneging on the agreed upon Covenant.
I've read enough legal documents to know this is just a cookie-cutter CC&R, and it was put together by someone with some inexperience. It isn't strongly written, and is highly ambiguous, and as we all know -- ambiguity leads to legal challenges. I've perused my state law heavily, and mention of HOA's comes in a chapter devoted solely to Condominiums, thus I am thinking this is a simple contract dispute/challenge since there is no state law on the issue. As I mentioned, I know for sure I'm right that they didn't properly serve me with written notice, but on the issue of renters I could be wrong -- there might be a way to amend that I'm unfamiliar with, which is why I contacted my attorney, so that he could research it, and then let me know if they are acting in an illegal manner, or if they've got a pretty strong standing legally. I'm not about to make claims that could lead to liability for myself, so I'm certainly going to remain calm and rational, and stay within the scope of what I know to true and valid, rather than resort to unfounded threats or arguments.
They certainly do appear to be racist assholes, so screw them. I'd rather have every color in the world living in my neighborhood than a couple of racist, pretentious, rednecks.
I do, however, promise to be careful, so I'm running everything few my attorney before making another response, and I'm going to go ahead and pay my dues, although I will demand an immediate refund if it is proved that they are illegitimate, or asked for the funds in an improper way, and then I will notify everyone in the neighborhood of my discovery. I can pretty much promise you that if she has had an attorney review it( I've talked to the woman, she doesn't have a clue) it was a very local attorney who probably has a general practice involving wills, trusts, esates, a dabbling in criminal law, and probably does a little personal injury as well. If the law is on my side, then I've no doubt my attorney will be able to help me, as he's highly specialized in real esate, trust, estate, and tax. That's all he does, and he's a member of the largest firm in the state, and one of the largest in the SE. I can promise you that the HOA doesn't have the assets to hire or retain someone similar (1400 in total assets), so if I'm right they will lose.
As I stated, I'm open to rational discussion, and I offered them an out. Drop the renting issue, and apologize for threatening a lien. Since they don't want to do that, I'll be more than happy to see them in Probate Court. The Association doesn't have the funds to fight it, and I'm 100% certain the Developer will pull the title to common areas back and dissovle the HOA if he sees how much of a problem these idiots are.
I'm not the only person with a problem, there are other neighbors more infuriated than me, but I don't know that they have the funds and relationships to hire a capable attorney to review the Covenant, etc.
BTW, there is no update, other than that my attorney hasn't e-mailed me back. I never contacted him via phone today as I was busy, so he might have been out of the office or traveling. I'll get in touch with his Administrative Assistant, or him tomorrow to make sure he received it, and that he is having a runner pull the Probate records (which is funny, because I was a runner for the same firm when I was 16). Honestly, I've yet to receive a SINGLE negative response from anyone I've discussed the issue with. They've all said fvck'em if they are going to try to prevent renters, and I doubt I'll ever rent my house out -- I'm just not kosher with someone attacking and harming my rights.
Unless your state's code is different than mine you are correct AFAIK.
A court will likely view the state code as it applies to condo's as being ment by the legislature to apply to an any HOA CCR's as well. Just because it only mentions specificially condo's doesn't mean it wasn't generalized towards HOA CCR's as well. That's an unknown though, it's going to depend on judicial precedent in your locality.
Consult your attorney for sure but myself I wouldn't pay the dues. I also wouldn't sue the "HOA" if they file a lien. HOA's can be usefull so I personally wouldn't want it dissolved if in general the neighbors are all of the same mind on issues. My plan of attack would be invalidating the leadership as I said. By paying the dues IMO you offer validation that you accept the management is legitimate. And after they filed the lien I would take two actions. The first would be that I would challenge the lein with the city/county (depending on your regional authority) as being improperly filed on the basis that the "management" is not legitimate. Second I would launch suit against the individual (not the HOA) that fradulently filed the lien seeking damages.
This would result in a couple actions, the person that filed the lien would then likely use the dues collected to consult an attorney, such usage, if the management is declared invalid by the city after challenging the lien, would be criminal embezzlement of group funds or fradulent collection of monies.
I'm an asshole though, and if I got a letter like that I would try to fvck the person that sent it, and by that I mean fvck them in the nice legal manner. Like you, apparently, I don't make threats, I just take action. Did you ever file the police complaint about the threats so your ass is covered if you have to harm the racist if he comes over to your house?
The outcome was not what I expectd, but is actually WAY better than I expected.
The Vice-President called me last night, but it was when I wasn't home, and I did not check the caller-id or answering machine. I noticed it this morning, and he left a polite message so I gave him a call. He actually thought my letter raised many salient points, and he said he would work to address them. He did say the HOA was legit, and he was like me at first -- sort of just leave people alone and keep the neighborhood as it is, but if they were going to form it -- he wanted to be a part of it. He is in total agreement with me about the renting issue, so we are going to work to make that a moot issue.
Very friendly guy, and we talked for a good thirty-minutes. He said the situation should have been handled better, and he apologized on behalf of himself, and the HOA -- even though I think that was unnecessary because he didn't send the letter. He agreed that sometimes people get overzealous when they are new to something, and he thinks that is what happened here.
He never once threatened a lien or even said he had a problem with what I did, in fact he said he likely would have done the same, and he apologized for not notifying others that I was in fact out of town, because a neighbor had told him that.
So in the end, the resolution is much more anti-climatic than expected. Basically, I'm going to pay him the dues I owe, and him and I are going to sit down one day and go over things in the neighborhood. He is VERY much like me in that he thinks everyone takes care of their property, and that there is no need for us to interfere in people's private business. The HOA is mainly for the upkeep of the common areas, and to address major issues -- that's it. We also discussed being neighborly instead of calling the police on dogs or whatnot, and we are on the exact same page. It is much better to just go talk to your neighbor and just let them know what is going on. Just be friendly, explain if you are concerned or if it bothers you, and just go about it without being an ass. He, as do I, much prefer that to the HOA having ANYTHING to do with nuisance complaints.
Glad there is someone level-headed to mediate this, so it doesn't end up costing me anymore money or grief. He admitted as much that people aren't always going to see eye to eye, so sometimes you have to have someone else step in. Really friendly and nice guy who moved down here from New York City, so he's very familar with neighborhood disputes and the like.
I'm just glad that it is over with for the most part. Now we've got to fight this silly renting issue. As a homeowner -- that is my right, and I don't need 51% of people telling the other 49% what to do. He actually agree with me was that it was his understanding that IF the Covenant *could* be amended it would require at least 2/3's majority. I don't plan to rent out my house anytime soon, but if I want to... that should be my right.
That's the final update for now.
The Vice-President called me last night, but it was when I wasn't home, and I did not check the caller-id or answering machine. I noticed it this morning, and he left a polite message so I gave him a call. He actually thought my letter raised many salient points, and he said he would work to address them. He did say the HOA was legit, and he was like me at first -- sort of just leave people alone and keep the neighborhood as it is, but if they were going to form it -- he wanted to be a part of it. He is in total agreement with me about the renting issue, so we are going to work to make that a moot issue.
Very friendly guy, and we talked for a good thirty-minutes. He said the situation should have been handled better, and he apologized on behalf of himself, and the HOA -- even though I think that was unnecessary because he didn't send the letter. He agreed that sometimes people get overzealous when they are new to something, and he thinks that is what happened here.
He never once threatened a lien or even said he had a problem with what I did, in fact he said he likely would have done the same, and he apologized for not notifying others that I was in fact out of town, because a neighbor had told him that.
So in the end, the resolution is much more anti-climatic than expected. Basically, I'm going to pay him the dues I owe, and him and I are going to sit down one day and go over things in the neighborhood. He is VERY much like me in that he thinks everyone takes care of their property, and that there is no need for us to interfere in people's private business. The HOA is mainly for the upkeep of the common areas, and to address major issues -- that's it. We also discussed being neighborly instead of calling the police on dogs or whatnot, and we are on the exact same page. It is much better to just go talk to your neighbor and just let them know what is going on. Just be friendly, explain if you are concerned or if it bothers you, and just go about it without being an ass. He, as do I, much prefer that to the HOA having ANYTHING to do with nuisance complaints.
Glad there is someone level-headed to mediate this, so it doesn't end up costing me anymore money or grief. He admitted as much that people aren't always going to see eye to eye, so sometimes you have to have someone else step in. Really friendly and nice guy who moved down here from New York City, so he's very familar with neighborhood disputes and the like.
I'm just glad that it is over with for the most part. Now we've got to fight this silly renting issue. As a homeowner -- that is my right, and I don't need 51% of people telling the other 49% what to do. He actually agree with me was that it was his understanding that IF the Covenant *could* be amended it would require at least 2/3's majority. I don't plan to rent out my house anytime soon, but if I want to... that should be my right.
That's the final update for now.
Vic
Elite Member
Nice to see that there's a cool head with a brain on the board. Hopefully, this gets resolved appropriately (which is best when anti-climatic). I would expect that you are still going to have some issues with the racist neighbor in the future though. He's a hot head who's gonna wanna rule over everyone, and gonna use force when his way doesn't go through. Expect that. In the meantime, I would agree that you should pay the dues for now, and the ally with and support the cool head.
fbrdphreak
Lifer
Great letter, now go deliver it up their fvcking asses 😀evil;
NickelTitanium
Senior member
You really should not worry about this so much. It sounds like you are a busy man. Pay and go on with your life. Threat was probably written by a peon. This probably came from someone that never has any authority in their life and this is their chance to be the bossman.
Yes, I am. I'm about 1/8 Cherokee or thereabouts, though. Had a great grandmother who was half, and then on my mother's side there was some Cherokee blood as well. I get pretty dadgum dark in the summer and tan very easily, so I've been told numerous times that people thought I was a mixture of something. I guess I am!
I've got a fairly large problem with people who would determine someone's worth solely on the basis of their race or nationality. I've got one full-blooded Korean Cousin (adopted), and then two half-Korean Cousins (same family). My family is pretty diverse, as we've got a fair bit of interracial marriages too with Hispanics or Blacks. It makes me happy at Christmas time or other family holidays to not have a cookie-cutter event with all whites. 😛
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